Arriva Trains Wales Query

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M60lad

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Are they short of Class 175s at the moment only I've seen an increased usage of 2-car 158s on Manchester-South Wales services recently
 
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anthony263

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I think they still have that 175 out of action being repaired and they still use that 175 on WAG2.

ATW do seem to be really streching both the class 158 & 175 fleet although 150's are still turning up on long distance services.
 

Welshman

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I think they must be, following on from the accident in SW Wales recently, and the fact [much mentioned on here!] that one seems to stay in Cardiff for 6 hours a day booked on the WAG2 service!!

Occasionally, just to teach us in N. Wales a lesson, they send a 150 from Cardiff to Holyhead. How we cheer when we see that appear!
 
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Dunno but on Tues i travelled on the 1030 Manchester to Milford Haven service and it was formed of 150254. So im guessing they are short of 175 units, if im right in thinking there is two of them out of service, the one that caught fire at Man Picc and the one that hit the truck in Sth Wales.
 

tbtc

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It surprises me that they are finding stock to extend some North Wales services / introduce additional West Wales services when the Wales & Borders franchise seems to be struggling to find appropriate stock just to maintain existing services, stretching things even further.
 

anthony263

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Dunno but on Tues i travelled on the 1030 Manchester to Milford Haven service and it was formed of 150254. So im guessing they are short of 175 units, if im right in thinking there is two of them out of service, the one that caught fire at Man Picc and the one that hit the truck in Sth Wales.
The unit that caught fire at Manchester is back in service sint it? I thought the fire was just some oil leaking onto the hot engine.
 

PHILIPE

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The unit that caught fire at Manchester is back in service sint it? I thought the fire was just some oil leaking onto the hot engine.
Yes. Back in service the next day. At least 2 X 158s vice 175s yesterday on Marches and I witnessed one today. The Whitland 175 is the only one I know of out long term. so presume just too many stopped for repairs/exams. without being able to pinpoint any particular overall reason. This has been ongoing for a while and has been discussed at length on another thread already.
 

Michael.Y

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I saw two 2-car 175s at Alstom Chester the other day, plus at least one more hiding in there yesterday. Perhaps they're having a service or a checkup or something.

I worked both a 150/158 combo and a 150/153/153 combo last week, which is very unusual for me.
 

Erniescooper

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I saw two 2-car 175s at Alstom Chester the other day, plus at least one more hiding in there yesterday. Perhaps they're having a service or a checkup or something.

I worked both a 150/158 combo and a 150/153/153 combo last week, which is very unusual for me.
Three 175's at Chester would be right for a weekday (24 available Mon-Fri, 23 at the weekend, 002 is included in 23/24 as it was damaged in an accident). We've had no problems with availability for a couple of years now . ATW seem to react very quickly to things going wrong and if that means putting a 150 in a 158/175 diagram they are not afraid to do it , after all it's better than no train at all. Once a units in a diagram it's hard to swap out again without a SAF and that diagram could last for 2/3 days.
 

SprinterMan

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I saw two 2-car 175s at Alstom Chester the other day, plus at least one more hiding in there yesterday. Perhaps they're having a service or a checkup or something.

I worked both a 150/158 combo and a 150/153/153 combo last week, which is very unusual for me.
Any photos of either of these? :P
 

Rhydgaled

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It surprises me that they are finding stock to extend some North Wales services / introduce additional West Wales services when the Wales & Borders franchise seems to be struggling to find appropriate stock just to maintain existing services, stretching things even further.
Additional west-Wales services? Haven't heard of that (assuming you mean ones starting on May 14th this year, which I'm assuming because you mention the strengthening of Holyhead-Birmingham trains which I think starts then).
 

tbtc

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I was referring to these May 2012 changes:

0709 Pembroke Dock to Swansea - Extended service.
Extended to Cardiff Central calling at Neath, Port Talbot Parkway, Pyle and Bridgend, arriving Cardiff Central at 1041 hrs. This provides an addition Swansea to Cardiff service and an extra through service from West Wales to Cardiff.

1445 Cheltenham Spa to Maesteg - Revised Gloucester start point & extended to Fishguard. Will start Gloucester at 1435 and is extended to Fishguard Harbour, departing Cardiff at 1604. This will replace the current 1514 service which will terminate at Swansea and improves the journey time from Cardiff to Fishguard by 26 minutes.

1230 Manchester Piccadilly to Milford Haven - Re-timed.
Is re-timed between Newport and Milford Haven. Will depart Newport at 1522, Cardiff Central at 1539, calling Bridgend, Pyle, Port Talbot Parkway, Neath and Swansea. This will provide a fast services from Cardiff to West Wales at 1542 in addition to the 1604 departure and reduce journey times between Manchester, Cardiff and West Wales
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=62411

Nice to see additional ATW services, but it stretches things further (when there are regular complaints about short formed DMUs on other routes)...
 

Rhydgaled

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I was referring to these May 2012 changes:
I Thought you were talking new services coming May 2012, rather than the already existing extra Fishguards. Thanks for confirming.
Nice to see additional ATW services, but it stretches things further (when there are regular complaints about short formed DMUs on other routes)...
I'm supprised the 0709 Pembroke Dock to Swansea - Extended service is actually additional between Swansea and Cardiff, I expected it'd just be combining with an existing Swanline train or taking away a direct Cardiff from HOWL. Anyway, it is probably using 150s (though that is probably nearly all the surplus 150s used up, given the ones covering for 158s and 175s). The service extended to Fishguard replaces an existing train, so I doubt that uses extra resources. It's the extended Holyhead - Birminghams that sound difficult to resource.
 

Rhydgaled

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Don't forget there is strengthening on the Cambrian as well as Holyhead from May
Oh yeah, that might be hard to resource too. But isn't it just two morning services from Birmingham that will be extended to 4-car (ie. an Aberystwyth portion and a Pwllheli one) rather than having a connection for the coast at Machynllyth? That's more like bringing deliberatly short-formed services up to length rather than strengthening, since the norm on the route is 4-car.
 

PHILIPE

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Oh yeah, that might be hard to resource too. But isn't it just two morning services from Birmingham that will be extended to 4-car (ie. an Aberystwyth portion and a Pwllheli one) rather than having a connection for the coast at Machynllyth? That's more like bringing deliberatly short-formed services up to length rather than strengthening, since the norm on the route is 4-car.
Although I haven't got full details at this stage, there will be 6 coach trains running from Cambrian in peaks.
 

Rhydgaled

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Although I haven't got full details at this stage, there will be 6 coach trains running from Cambrian in peaks.
Fair enough, I didn't know that, I thought the only 6-car formations planned were on the north Wales coast. ATW will certainlly have trouble resourcing that lot.
 

anthony263

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This is my concern.

Six coach trains sound good, increasing frequencies on certain routes sound good, but things can only be stretched so far...
I agree and I am expecting trouble this summer.

ATW had better get things moving and get the 2nd loco hauled set for WAG2 in service to free up that 175 which could provide a a bit of relief.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Slightly off topic but it seems one of the ATW dvt's is being hired for use by Chiltern:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/6918367718/in/contacts/
 

Rhydgaled

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An interesting question arose from reading on of the comments on that photo, Anthony. That question is "Where are run-round loops on the ATW network?"

We know from Gerald that run-round is possible at Cardiff and Holyhead, but what other Welsh routes could be run using LHCS? Sadly I don't think Swansea has a run-round facility, so Swansea - Manchester would require TDM-fitted diesel locos and refurbished DBSOs or more 67s and compatable DVTs. Does Manchester have such a facility though, could Manchester - Llandudno be an LHCS route without push-pull. Carmarthen - Cardiff via the Swansea District Line might be possible, but running round in the platform would probably occupy it for too long, and going to Pembrokeshire would require a very long Carmarthen dwell (allowing the loco to run-round) or ommiting Carmarthen altogether. Also does Pembroke Dock have run-round or would it be restricted to Milford or Fishguard?
 

merlodlliw

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An interesting question arose from reading on of the comments on that photo, Anthony. That question is "Where are run-round loops on the ATW network?"

We know from Gerald that run-round is possible at Cardiff and Holyhead, but what other Welsh routes could be run using LHCS? Sadly I don't think Swansea has a run-round facility, so Swansea - Manchester would require TDM-fitted diesel locos and refurbished DBSOs or more 67s and compatable DVTs. Does Manchester have such a facility though, could Manchester - Llandudno be an LHCS route without push-pull. Carmarthen - Cardiff via the Swansea District Line might be possible, but running round in the platform would probably occupy it for too long, and going to Pembrokeshire would require a very long Carmarthen dwell (allowing the loco to run-round) or ommiting Carmarthen altogether. Also does Pembroke Dock have run-round or would it be restricted to Milford or Fishguard?
I understand Manchester does have the facilities, Loco Haul was common in FNW days to Nth Wales.

I presume the DVT may be on test with Chiltern, or otherwise its the same DB family.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I saw two 2-car 175s at Alstom Chester the other day, plus at least one more hiding in there yesterday. Perhaps they're having a service or a checkup or something.

I worked both a 150/158 combo and a 150/153/153 combo last week, which is very unusual for me.
150/158 combos are now an everyday happening on the Cardiff Holyhead run,as are 150/153 combos, due to shortage of 175s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It surprises me that they are finding stock to extend some North Wales services / introduce additional West Wales services when the Wales & Borders franchise seems to be struggling to find appropriate stock just to maintain existing services, stretching things even further.
TBTC

Ill try and put up what ATW bragged about it. I have sent the full version to those who asked for it by e mail.

Bob

here it is


Arriva Trains Wales 14th May Timetable Improvements set to add almost a quarter of a
million extra seats and new/extended services in response to passenger demand.
Arriva Trains Wales (ATW) is responding to continued growth in public demand for its
services on major routes by increasing the number of seats available, extending existing
services with new stopping points and improving the timing of key trains.
Steady increase in public demand over the past year has enabled Arriva Trains Wales to
review its planning and allocation of resources in order to generate increasingly efficient
services. This has provided an opportunity to extend existing Monday to Saturday services
and add additional seating capacity to popular routes as follows:
• Shrewsbury to Birmingham corridor in the morhirig peak
• Chester to Llandudno Junction in the mid-afternoon and evening peak
• North Wales mid-afternoon and evening peak
• High summer services on the Cambrian Coast
• West Wales & Swansea services to Cardiff.
• Improved connections with ferry services to Ireland at Holyhead.
These changes, that will make significant capacity improvements on some of the most
popular routes on the ATW network, have been achieved as a result of reallocating existing
rolling stock to better match demand and through an increasingly astute use of the limited
resources available to this rail franchise.
In addition, the contractual requirements of providing further increased capacity due to major
events occurring during the year, namely the Olympics and Royal Welsh Show which
overlap in this summer, will be achieved alongside these enhanced operations. Seasonal
increases in the number of services and seating capacity during the high summer holiday
travel peak will also be a welcome addition to the timetable later in the year.
These new improvements have been provided in addition to the operating requirements
defined by the Wales and English Borders Rail Franchise agreement operated by ATW and
represent a substantial investment, made possible as a result of enhanced planning and
increasingly efficient use of trains and personnel.
A senior ATW spokesperson said
"We are delighted to be able to deliver this great new investment in additional seats,
extended services and improved train timings to our customers. Arriva Trains Wales
remains committed to the enhancement of services above and beyond our Franchise
commitments. These 223,500 extra seats and new/extended services have been made
possible by our willingness to respond to rising customer demand, manage the business in
increasingly efficient ways and make significant investments in the future of rail services
throughout Wales and the English Borders".
Consultation relating to these changes is in progress with Network Rail (who provide track
access), stakeholders and Public user groups. All new and strengthened services will
commence as from 14th May 2012 as will any other timetable changes that may arise due to
the consultation process. The public reminded that these improvements may result in
alterations to services used on a routine basis and so are advised to check the new
timetable information published on the Arriva Trains Wales website
(www.arrvatrainswales.co.uk) and to see the relevant posters and publications available at
stations on the network. ATW customer service staff can also provide passengers with help,
advice and guidance about the changes during booking office opening hours.
The extra seating capacity and extended services are as detailed in the attached
information.
 
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Rhydgaled

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Three 175's at Chester would be right for a weekday (24 available Mon-Fri, 23 at the weekend, 002 is included in 23/24 as it was damaged in an accident). We've had no problems with availability for a couple of years now . ATW seem to react very quickly to things going wrong and if that means putting a 150 in a 158/175 diagram they are not afraid to do it , after all it's better than no train at all. Once a units in a diagram it's hard to swap out again without a SAF and that diagram could last for 2/3 days.
Any idea when 175002 will be back?

Assuming 002 hadn't had a crash, does that 23/24 include servicable spares (ie. how many actual 175 diagrams are there each day) or are ATW so sort on units that it is 24 diagrams, 3 in for maintainance and no spares?

I understand Manchester does have the facilities, Loco Haul was common in FNW days to Nth Wales.
So the mark2s could be used on Manchester - Holyhead without needing push-pull. How about Manchester - Llandudno, and are there any other potential routes? Cambrian - Shrewsbury should be possible in terms of run-round facilities, but when I've suggested it before other posters had concerns that a 97 and mark2s couldn't keep to the times needed to hit the passing loops right.

I presume the DVT may be on test with Chiltern, or otherwise its the same DB family.
I think I've read on one fourm or another that Chiltern are leasing the ATW DVT to allow one of theirs to go through the generator convertion.

These changes .... have been achieved as a result of reallocating existing rolling stock to better match demand and through an increasingly astute use of the limited resources available to this rail franchise.
Sounds like 158s might be taken away from Maesteg, but that will probablly bring about the demise of any prospect of Cambrian hourly until additional 158s can be sourced

In addition, the contractual requirements of providing further increased capacity due to major events occurring during the year, namely the Olympics and Royal Welsh Show which overlap in this summer, will be achieved alongside these enhanced operations.
Please say they will be using their 'special events stock' (the mark 2s) to provide this extra capacity, the DMU fleet will almost certainly be overstreched as it is. I also hope they use their 'special events stock' to provide extra capacity for things like the festival near Pembrey & Burry port (I happened to be passing on a 2-car 175 last year, left many festival goers behind on the platforms at P&BP and Llanelli.)
 

merlodlliw

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Must be some facility at Llandudno for run around, as a loco haul is due for the Whit Victorian festival, others will know better.

Again I am sure Manchester has run around facilities, its such a huge 24/7 complex.



This quote may well dispel any use of the Mark 2s,

These changes, that will make significant capacity improvements on some of the most
popular routes on the ATW network, have been achieved as a result of reallocating existing
rolling stock to better match demand and through an increasingly astute use of the limited
resources available to this rail franchise.

Wonderful word Astute , as defined here
Origin:
1605–15; < Latin astūtus shrewd, sly, cunning, equivalent to astū- (stem of astus ) cleverness + -tus adj. suffix


Bob
 
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anthony263

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Please say they will be using their 'special events stock' (the mark 2s) to provide this extra capacity, the DMU fleet will almost certainly be overstreched as it is. I also hope they use their 'special events stock' to provide extra capacity for things like the festival near Pembrey & Burry port (I happened to be passing on a 2-car 175 last year, left many festival goers behind on the platforms at P&BP and Llanelli.)

No Idea if ATW would be using their MK2 rake sitting outside Canton and if those MK2's could be repaired and gotten ready for service.

There were at least 3 class 175's sat on canton depot when I passed at around 14:10 heading towards Barry yesterday.

I also counted two class 150's on canton and the class 121 which seems to be out of service (again).

I thought the idea of using the class 121 on the Cardiff Bay branch was to release a unit for use elsewhere so if the class 121 is in service it at least means a class 153 or something could find use elsewhere on the ATW network.

ATW had a 2nd class 150 to strengthen the daytime boat time train to Fishguard (Good thing too as even with 4 carriages it was very crowded when it passed through Bridgend at 15:37 running late because of the Manchester service in front).

It was stupid when the class 175's were ordered that they were ordered in 2 & 3 carriage sets and without gangways to allow acess between units, ideally all the sets should have been 3 carriages even that is not likely to help much considering how the 3 carriage units were struggling to cope yesterday.
 

Rhydgaled

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No Idea if ATW would be using their MK2 rake sitting outside Canton and if those MK2's could be repaired and gotten ready for service.
Well, when the mark3 LHCS finally takes over WAG2, I'd like to see all the ATW mark2s restored to useable condition, with:
  • 2 rakes in use somewhere (say Llandudno - Manchester) day-to-day to relieve presure on the DMU fleet (shame there's nowhere it could free 158s, except perhaps Cardiff - Cheltenham (if 158s are still there after May 14th) where I doubt LHCS is suitable)
  • 1 spare rake to cover for the above 2 and
  • 3 rakes on standby to deal with busy days and special events, these could be formed into two longer rakes instead depending on the suituation
Failing that, the two rakes that are good at the moment should be kept serviceable and used for special events.
 
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