ASLEF TfW and ScotRail Offer

[TrainSailing]

Amazing that in the UK, railway staff have 'the option' not to work Sundays.

While I go to Mass on Sundays, there's generally the option worldwide if Catholic, for instance, to attend a Vigil Mass on Saturday nights.

Insisting that one can pick and choose whether to work on Sundays is a throwback to the 1950s.

Whether we all like it or not in Western nations, society has changed, and although travel demand is lower on all modes on Sunday mornings, some still need or want to travel at that time. Sunday afternoons can be busy.

Imagine being a nurse or firefighter and saying 'no, I'll not work on Saturday nights or Sunday mornings'.

For those who dislike it, isn't there the opportunity to swap shifts with other rail staff?

Imagine telling all the Tuesday - Thursday office bods they suddenly have to work Saturdays and Sundays. Do you think they’d roll over and take it?

 

[craigybagel]

TfW Aslef vote results out today apparently

As it's now being discussed on another thread I guess it's safe to confirm that the vote at TfW has passed.

 

[Bantamzen]

Imagine telling all the Tuesday - Thursday office bods they suddenly have to work Saturdays and Sundays. Do you think they’d roll over and take it?

Actually this happened in parts of the public sector some time ago. OK Sundays are not included yet, but many (myself included) are now contracted Monday - Saturday, 08:00-20:00. In time I expect that will be extended further, until such time that further technological upgrades take over more of the work....

 

[chuff chuff]

Scotrail offer going out to referendum.

 

[CannonBall]

As it's now being discussed on another thread I guess it's safe to confirm that the vote at TfW has passed.

I missed that, cheers

 

[172007]

Amazing that in the UK, railway staff have 'the option' not to work Sundays.

While I go to Mass on Sundays, there's generally the option worldwide if Catholic, for instance, to attend a Vigil Mass on Saturday nights.

Insisting that one can pick and choose whether to work on Sundays is a throwback to the 1950s.

Whether we all like it or not in Western nations, society has changed, and although travel demand is lower on all modes on Sunday mornings, some still need or want to travel at that time. Sunday afternoons can be busy.

Imagine being a nurse or firefighter and saying 'no, I'll not work on Saturday nights or Sunday mornings'.

For those who dislike it, isn't there the opportunity to swap shifts with other rail staff?

And yet the entire nation has to put up with limited shop opening hours on a Sunday which is purely driven by the minority (as per the last census) who wish to keep the Christian sabbath special.

So your argument as a Catholic And being able to go to mass on Saturdays is a poor argument.

May be each toc should only run a service for 6 hours between 10:00 and 6:00pm as the railway is large retailer.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Imagine telling all the Tuesday - Thursday office bods they suddenly have to work Saturdays and Sundays. Do you think they’d roll over and take it?

That is nonsense. The railways produce timetables of when trains are expected to run - for the benefit of passengers handing over loads of cash for the privilege. "Office bods" on the other hand do not need anyone to legislate their working hours.

Pretty poor comparison

 

[sannox]

And yet the entire nation has to put up with limited shop opening hours on a Sunday which is purely driven by the minority (as per the last census) who wish to keep the Christian sabbath special.

So your argument as a Catholic And being able to go to mass on Saturdays is a poor argument.

May be each toc should only run a service for 6 hours between 10:00 and 6:00pm as the railway is large retailer.

Entire nation except Scotland! Years ago when I worked in retail I could refuse to work Sundays as well. I tended to do them as the pay was quite good.

 

[ADIRU]

Imagine telling all the Tuesday - Thursday office bods they suddenly have to work Saturdays and Sundays. Do you think they’d roll over and take it?

But they would most likely work in a business that only 'functions' from Monday to Friday - unlike 24 hour transport businesses like rail, road and air...

 

[snookertam]

Part of the issue with the optional working Sundays is that it is only since the late 1990s that the rail service on Sundays has grown, yet instead of addressing the right to refuse work this day, the industry has attempted to rely on overtime. Even in the late 1990s the majority of suburban services in the West of Scotland didn’t run. Places like Barrhead, Kilmarnock, East Kilbride, Milngavie, Cumbernauld, Croy and Neilston had no service whatsoever.

Whilst society has moved on in that time, rail staff have maintained quite a strong position and have been able to retain their right not to work that day. This is why it is such a hot potato as many will not want to lose this right, no matter how much you offered them.

 

[Krokodil]

Most people can be sold on Sundays-inside. The biggest obstacle however is that to cover seven days within the same number of hours that you covered six, you need more staff. This costs money and therefore any would-be franchisee would have lost out when bidding. That's why so many TOCs never brought them in.

 

[railfan99]

Most people can be sold on Sundays-inside. The biggest obstacle however is that to cover seven days within the same number of hours that you covered six, you need more staff. This costs money and therefore any would-be franchisee would have lost out when bidding. That's why so many TOCs never brought them in.

But the TOCs, or indirectly government, would no longer have to pay overtime. I agree that there's extra costs such as 'on-costs': sick leave, superannuation and so on though.

Surely the government (your Dft), TOCs and rail staff alike have to recognise society has changed.

For leisure travel worldwide in Western developed countries, Sunday has become a busy day. From my friend's reports who's in UK, those Sunday trains that operate can be extremely well patronised.

 

[Krokodil]

But the TOCs, or indirectly government, would no longer have to pay overtime. I agree that there's extra costs such as 'on-costs': sick leave, superannuation and so on though.

Overtime is cheaper than employing extra staff. It's not pensionable, you don't need extra managers, you don't need spare cover, there are no training costs...

 

[John Bishop]

Scotrail offer going out to referendum.

Offer has been accepted today, 75% in favour.

 

[1D54]

Hoping for the day i read something similar regarding English TOC's!

 

[scouseyb123]

Hoping for the day i read something similar regarding English TOC's!

Exactly! I wait in hope every day but I suspect it won’t be until this rotten government is gone

 

[Silverlinky]

Offer has been accepted today, 75% in favour.

So after rejecting a straight 5% offer in May 2023 because it "fell well below inflation levels" they have now accepted a straight 5% offer with an additional 1% uplift to come in October 2023?

 

[GardenRail]

So after rejecting a straight 5% offer in May 2023 because it "fell well below inflation levels" they have now accepted a straight 5% offer with an additional 1% uplift to come in October 2023?

Because they realised that they lost. They needed a way out. Hardly a victorious win is it....

 

[chuff chuff]

So after rejecting a straight 5% offer in May 2023 because it "fell well below inflation levels" they have now accepted a straight 5% offer with an additional 1% uplift to come in October 2023?

Additional lieu day and an uplift in level of healthsheild cover.Not too bad considering how weak the no vote was last time.

 

[Carntyne]

So after rejecting a straight 5% offer in May 2023 because it "fell well below inflation levels" they have now accepted a straight 5% offer with an additional 1% uplift to come in October 2023?

And the rest! Scotrail only mentioned some of the points of the deal on their website news page.

 

[HL7]

Because they realised that they lost. They needed a way out. Hardly a victorious win is it....

6%, an additional day of annual leave and the RDW payment increased from £400 to £500 and various other enhancements on Ts&Cs. Victorious enough for the majority of members.

 

[dk1]

6%, an additional day of annual leave and the RDW payment increased from £400 to £500 and various other enhancements on Ts&Cs. Victorious enough for the majority of members.

Sounds superb to me. Well done to them.

 

[380101]

Because they realised that they lost. They needed a way out. Hardly a victorious win is it....

ASLEF haven't been in an official industrial dispute with ScotRail over pay since 2002 - ScotRail have always come back to ASLEF with improvements to their pay and conditions offers if any offers have been rejected at the ballot stage.

Pragmatic and sensible negotiations between the company and ASLEF tend to work well in Scotland and the members (most of them) use their voice at the ballot box to make their feelings known. The second, much improved offer has been deemed acceptable to a substantial majority of the members.

 

[Tractor2018]

Because they realised that they lost. They needed a way out. Hardly a victorious win is it....

And this is hardly factual, but you won't care.

 

[irish_rail]

Fair play to them. Only wish we had a more reasonable Government in England that would allow a similar offer here.

 

[175001]

A great outcome for Aslef members and SR. Just shows when you have a froward progressive forward looking government in charge, that a deal is possible.

 

[1D54]

Not sure I'd describe the Nats as a progressive forward looking government but what the hell, at least this has a positive ending.

 

[175001]

Far more progressive and forward than the current English Govt

 

[anthony263]

Any news on TFW ?

 

[exbrel]

Far more progressive and forward than the current English Govt

and the hopeful replacement, will be?