ATW Drivers Strike

[trainophile]

What do the drivers stand to gain by striking? I suppose this will be the start of a series of strikes until they wear the management down .

I've made alternative arrangements for Thursday and will attempt to get a refund for my ATW ticket, although as it was purchased via the VTEC website I'm not too optimistic. Last time I tried it was passed back and forth between the two operators and eventually abandoned, and I never did get a refund :roll: .

 

[notadriver]

What do the drivers stand to gain by striking?

It's very difficult to replace drivers.

 

[trainophile]

It's very difficult to replace drivers.

That would be 'quitting', not 'striking'!

 

[1V53]

What do the drivers stand to gain by striking?

It is a last resort. What do you gain by not striking? Ultimately withdrawing your labour is the tried and tested way to make employers sit up and change their entrenched attitude. If you don't have that final card then you may as well give up and see your pay and conditions slip away to the lowest level. Which is what most employees have done over the past few years.....

 

[trainophile]

Well I hope they get what they want. Might as well have something good come out of the disruption.

Feeling a bit selfish now, having moaned about my disrupted leisure travel. I'm wondering how the workers in the Welsh Valleys who rely on their commuter trains are going to get to work... cram onto the buses I suppose.

 

[Markdvdman]

Well I hope they get what they want. Might as well have something good come out of the disruption.

Feeling a bit selfish now, having moaned about my disrupted leisure travel. I'm wondering how the workers in the Welsh Valleys who rely on their commuter trains are going to get to work... cram onto the buses I suppose.

I will be affected - as I go from Merthyr To Cadoxton.

It transpires I shall have to get the 6:05 bus from Merthyr, then the 7:32 NAT 304 to Ty Verlon.

Usually leave the house at 6:10am and get home at 7:25pm. Now it will be at 5:40 and get home around 7:40.

It will also cost me more money.

I am concerned about being able to get on the bus especially in Cardiff/Barry. I am afraid my employer may have to expect that I shall be late.

I am aggrieved, but to be fair, they would not strike without good reason!

 

[1V53]

Well I hope they get what they want. Might as well have something good come out of the disruption.

Feeling a bit selfish now, having moaned about my disrupted leisure travel. I'm wondering how the workers in the Welsh Valleys who rely on their commuter trains are going to get to work... cram onto the buses I suppose.

It will be massively disruptive. Most drivers only voted for the action as a last resort - basically if the union and the company can't agree what we want then yes we will strike - but nobody wants to be losing pay which will be paid in December just before Christmas.

You need to remember that drivers at most other TOCs are paid considerably more than ATW drivers. London Midland were on a similar rate a few years ago to ATW drivers, yet will be on £50k basic next year when ATW would be just under £45k with this offer. Yes it is still a good wage, but that doesn't mean they should just accept it. £25k may be considered by some to be a good wage, so should everyone aspire to that? Just because someone is paid more than you are doesn't mean they are overpaid.

 

[trainophile]

Would it be correct to think that under British Rail all drivers would have been on much the same standardised pay rates, even if there were differentials for such things as length of service, seniority grading, extra responsibilities, etc.?

There have been discussions on here about disgruntled Northern drivers, and the fact that they tend to migrate to other TOCs when they get the chance. I hesitate to suggest that ATW drivers have the same options. I realise this would leave the company in the lurch, but maybe if a few walked then the management might sit up and take notice.

 

[craigybagel]

There have been discussions on here about disgruntled Northern drivers, and the fact that they tend to migrate to other TOCs when they get the chance. I hesitate to suggest that ATW drivers have the same options. I realise this would leave the company in the lurch, but maybe if a few walked then the management might sit up and take notice.

It's a lot harder for ATW drivers to move. Look at Northern's big depots - Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle, all have at least two other TOCs with depots. Amongst all of the ATW depots, only two are in the same location as other TOC depots - Crewe and Shrewsbury, both London Midland. One is apparently full with an internal waiting list and the other is only small. At every other depot if drivers want to move TOC they'll need to be prepared to commute to a different location as well. A small amount have done so (to the likes of FGW at Swansea or Virgin at Wolverhampton or Manchester) but its more complicated than just moving to a different office in the station building like most Northern staff can.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Nationalisation will sort it out no balkanisation to play off against.

 

[1V53]

Would it be correct to think that under British Rail all drivers would have been on much the same standardised pay rates, even if there were differentials for such things as length of service, seniority grading, extra responsibilities, etc.?

There have been discussions on here about disgruntled Northern drivers, and the fact that they tend to migrate to other TOCs when they get the chance. I hesitate to suggest that ATW drivers have the same options. I realise this would leave the company in the lurch, but maybe if a few walked then the management might sit up and take notice.

British Rail I believe there would have been differing pay based on seniority but (I'm sure someone more senior than I will correct me if wrong) not based on area save for London weighting?

Yes ultimately you can always leave, but its not like going from one cake shop to one paying more down the road, or from one pub bar to another one round the corner. If you apply for a job then see your wages and conditions eroded compared to others employing people doing the same job elsewhere, its going to come to a head eventually, especially when its all constituent parts of an ex Nationalised operation.

 

[ainsworth74]

especially when its all constituent parts of an ex Nationalised operation.

Which of course was itself made out of four disparate companies who themselves were made out of dozens of other disparate companies!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Why no efforts to run buses?
Arriva runs most bus services in North Wales, and it's hardly the height of the tourist season.
And what about the bustitution already organised this week for Chester-Wrexham because of engineering work?

 

[Carlisle]

What do you gain by not striking? .

The (albeit probably remote) possibility of a better,more realistic and productive working relationship with management, government etc for the industry going forward to the future

 

[ainsworth74]

The possibility of better and more realistic and productive working relationship with management going forward to the future

Who says it isn't the management who are the ones sabotaging the working relationship? In which case what choice do staff have but to voice their displeasure using the tools at their disposal (or I suppose, technically, not using them)?

 

[A-driver]

The (albeit probably remote) possibility of a better,more realistic and productive working relationship with management, government etc for the industry going forward to the future

Ah, so it's all the nasty staffs fault then is it? Naughty them for not just bending over and doing whatever management dictate. How dare they try to stand up for themselves.

Do you really think a post like that is in any way helpful? You evidently understand very little about industrial relations. Try reading the rest of the thread as you clearly havnt yet. Striking is a real last resort. They would much prefer a quiet life and not loosing a day's pay and facing the abuse they are currently getting on social media. But when management refuse to budge or negotiate fairly then standing strong together is the only way forward.

 

[bnm]

Management... workers. Workers... management.

Neither side appears to have much care for the biggest group of people affected by a public service strike.

The users of said service.

Both sides. Stop posturing. Get talking.

 

[northwichcat]

Anyone needing to get between Chester and Manchester tomorrow or Friday I'd recommend using Virgin and going via Crewe. The majority of the Northern services via Altrincham are only 2 carriages and even some of the off-peak services can have more passengers than seats. Virgin will have 5/10 carriages between Chester and Crewe and 9 or maybe 11 between Crewe and Manchester.

 

[TDK]

It will be massively disruptive. Most drivers only voted for the action as a last resort - basically if the union and the company can't agree what we want then yes we will strike - but nobody wants to be losing pay which will be paid in December just before Christmas.

You need to remember that drivers at most other TOCs are paid considerably more than ATW drivers. London Midland were on a similar rate a few years ago to ATW drivers, yet will be on £50k basic next year when ATW would be just under £45k with this offer. Yes it is still a good wage, but that doesn't mean they should just accept it. £25k may be considered by some to be a good wage, so should everyone aspire to that? Just because someone is paid more than you are doesn't mean they are overpaid.

As previously pointed out the strike is not over pay but over conditions
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Nationalisation will sort it out no balkanisation to play off against.

If the railway was nationalised the whole of the country would be on strike and not just a small proportion of it

 

[DarloRich]

Management... workers. Workers... management.

Neither side appears to have much care for the biggest group of people affected by a public service strike.

The users of said service.

Both sides. Stop posturing. Get talking.

Quite - most things can be resolved through meaningful discussion. Although there has to be a willingness by both sides to engage in those meaningful discussions. Sadly, there often isn't.

 

[ainsworth74]

Quite - most things can be resolved through meaningful discussion. Although there has to be a willingness by both sides to engage in those meaningful discussions. Sadly, there often isn't.

Indeed! Plus the knowledge that a strike is going ahead (so disruption for managers to deal with and staff losing a days pay) will often focus minds quite clearly on getting an agreeable solution for both sides.

We see a lot of ballots for strikes and strikes being called after those ballots. I would wager that most of those don't actually result in a strike.

 

[Carlisle]

Who says it isn't the management who are the ones sabotaging the working relationship? In which case what choice do staff have but to voice their displeasure using the tools at their disposal (or I suppose, technically, not using them)?

i wasn't taking sides or saying this strike definitely shouldn't happen, I'm simply saying some workers have chosen an alternative less aggressive approach to industrial relations, including the likes of RMT in the distant past, so this doesn't automatically render them nieve,spineless,dim, stupid or whatever

 

[kieron]

£25k may be considered by some to be a good wage, so should everyone aspire to that? Just because someone is paid more than you are doesn't mean they are overpaid.

By the same token, it doesn't mean that you are underpaid.

I did have a look to see if ASLEF or Arriva had anything on their web sites to give their side (in the way you get a lot in the media about the dispute between the government and junior doctors), but couldn't find anything beyond a list of who met who and when.

 

[tony6499]

British Rail I believe there would have been differing pay based on seniority but (I'm sure someone more senior than I will correct me if wrong) not based on area save for London weighting?
.

There was a standard drivers wage on BR as was all grades but most of the pay was built on different allowances and payments

 

[craigybagel]

Rmt have suspended, no word yet from ASLEF

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-34792400

 

[PHILIPE]

ASLEF similarly suspended according to ATW and ASLEF Website. Revised offer made and being put to membership.

 

[atw driver]

Strike suspended disgraceful decision by the e.c

 

[ainsworth74]

Strike suspended disgraceful decision by the e.c

Why? If there is a new offer on the table that might be acceptable why carry on without giving the membership, the people who are being represented, a chance to have their say?

 

[PHILIPE]

Strike suspended disgraceful decision by the e.c

I'm not taking any sides here, neither management bashing nor union bashing, but I've noticed that after joining the Forum 2 months ago all your posts have been giving the impression that you just want use the Forum to gloat over strike action. All your posts on the World Cup Rugby Trains were not about trains but just a running commentary on potential strike action as though hoping to disrupt the train services for the Cup.. Lets have a few constructive posts for discussion instead of seemingly hi-jacking the Forum to promote your own thoughts.

 

[atw driver]

Why? If there is a new offer on the table that might be acceptable why carry on without giving the membership, the people who are being represented, a chance to have their say?

Because the new offer is not any better than the existing one and the e.c have gone against every member of the company council who all stated to the e.c that they wanted the offer rejected.