ATW/Keolis Amey Wales stock shortages

[Cardiff123]

There were pics on FB yesterday from someone who burnt her arm being pressed up against the wall of the exhaust inside a rammed 2 car 175.
People aren't happy at all with the short forms but what can be done thanks to Porterbrook's failure with the 769s?

Things will get a lot worse in Wales before they get better. The new operator is going through need an awful lot of good will from the public until the new trains starting coming into service.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Three out of four scheduled 4 car trains through Newtown short formed today so far......

 

[Gareth Marston]

Cambrian part of plan I mentioned @ #31 has been in operation today.

0530 ex Aberystwyth to BHM INTL is now 2 instead of 4 car to Shrewsbury
and from Shrewsbury where it joins with 0640 ex Crewe (2 car) (-0733 ex Shrewsbury to BHM INTL) is now 4 instead of 6 car.
0630 ex Aberystwyth still terminates Shrewsbury. (2 car as before)
0730 ex Aberystwyth to BHM INTL is 4 car instead of 2 from Machynlleth it does not join stock of 0630 ex Aberystwyth at Shrewsbury anymore.
0830 ex Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury is extended to BHM INTL ( 2 car to Shrewsbury where it picks up stock off 0630 ex Aberystwyth and goes forward as 4 car.


0909 ex BHM INTL to Holyhead is now 4 car instead of 6. Previously went forward as 2 car from Shrewsbury with rear 4 cars detaching and forming 1033 ex Shrewbsury to BHM INTL. Now 2 cars go forward to Holyhead as before and rear 2 cars detach and form 1029 Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth (this use to be worked by stock form 0830 ex AYW).

 

[PHILIPE]

Planned formation reductions story here:-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... n-14901991

Blamed on the non-appearance of 769s at the time expected. There are also units suffering damage such as 175 fires and 158s horse bashing.

 

[Cardiff123]

Planned formation reductions story here:-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... n-14901991

Blamed on the non-appearance of 769s at the time expected. There are also units suffering damage such as 175 fires and 158s horse bashing.

ATW aren't going to have these problems with short formations just over the summer. The short formations will continue for the rest of ATW's franchise, and will hit the new operator hard.

Meanwhile Porterbrook's response is laughable:

“We are discussing revised delivery dates [of the 769s] with our customers but we are not in a position to make these public yet, due to reasons of commercial confidentiality.”

In other words, they still don't have a clue when the 769s might enter into service.

 

[AndrewE]

Planned formation reductions story here:-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... n-14901991

Blamed on the non-appearance of 769s at the time expected. There are also units suffering damage such as 175 fires and 158s horse bashing.

It says

"Some ATW commuter trains into or out of Cardiff, Birmingham and Manchester have been shortened for the summer holiday season, when fewer people tend to travel to and from work places than during the rest of the year"

which is interesting, given that In my experience one of their peak hour trains out of Manchester has been often only been 2 cars anyway!

 

[PHILIPE]

It says which is interesting, given that In my experience one of their peak hour trains out of Manchester has been often only been 2 cars anyway!

The 1752 to Holyhead is booked for 2x175/0 but I don't they have been 2 for a time now

 

[craigybagel]

It says which is interesting, given that In my experience one of their peak hour trains out of Manchester has been often only been 2 cars anyway!

The only thing booked out of Manchester in the rush hour for a 2 car is the 18:29 to Carmarthen. Everything else on both the North and South Wales routes should be a 3 or 4 car - but of course in reality that isn't always possible

The 1752 to Holyhead is booked for 2x175/0 but I don't they have been 2 for a time now

It's one of the trains altered for summer IIRC, should be a 3 car 175 now.

 

[Gareth Marston]

ATW aren't going to have these problems with short formations just over the summer. The short formations will continue for the rest of ATW's franchise, and will hit the new operator hard.

Meanwhile Porterbrook's response is laughable:



In other words, they still don't have a clue when the 769s might enter into service.

Its a sticking plaster of sorts until Monday 3rd September......................................the last six weeks of ATW could be quite acrimoniousness still hopefully they (ATW) will not have to pay a penny for the 769's which will go down well with Arriva UK Finances.

I'm sure Keolis are already groaning at the messy start to the franchise they'll get. And where is Transport for Wales/Welsh Government? No sign of them manning up and sorting it all out- they wanted control over the railways in Wales and that means the buck stops with them.

 

[AndrewE]

The only thing booked out of Manchester in the rush hour for a 2 car is the 18:29 to Carmarthen. Everything else on both the North and South Wales routes should be a 3 or 4 car - but of course in reality that isn't always possible

I think I've had 2-cars on the 163 1to Cardiff a couple of times this year - and the rush hour seemed to have started by then!

 

[mde]

I'm sure Keolis are already groaning at the messy start to the franchise they'll get. And where is Transport for Wales/Welsh Government? No sign of them manning up and sorting it all out- they wanted control over the railways in Wales and that means the buck stops with them.

Even Ken Skates might struggle to call it world class, so, he's probably keeping quiet for now.

 

[Dai Corner]

Even Ken Skates might struggle to call it world class, so, he's probably keeping quiet for now.

All the good things will be TfW/WG branded, all the bad things ATW for as long as possible, then KeolisAmey. Network Rail will be reserve scapegoat.

 

[craigybagel]

I think I've had 2-cars on the 163 1to Cardiff a couple of times this year - and the rush hour seemed to have started by then!

It has indeed happened - even the 1731, the busiest departure of the day towards South Wales has had a 2 car on numerous occasions - but my point is that it isn't booked for that to happen, it'll only be because of disruption on the day and/or a shortage of available units. Even under this new plan, the 1631 and 1731 are booked to remain as 3 cars.

 

[Cardiff123]

Its a sticking plaster of sorts until Monday 3rd September......................................the last six weeks of ATW could be quite acrimoniousness still hopefully they (ATW) will not have to pay a penny for the 769's which will go down well with Arriva UK Finances.

I'm sure Keolis are already groaning at the messy start to the franchise they'll get. And where is Transport for Wales/Welsh Government? No sign of them manning up and sorting it all out- they wanted control over the railways in Wales and that means the buck stops with them.

If TfW have any teeth they should already be either lobbying Porterbrook to get Northern's 144s as soon as they are released, (if they are still to be realeased this autumn, which the latest edition of RAIL suggests they still are) as compensation to cover in Wales until the 769s finally arrive, or looking to hire in LHCS from October 15th.
I doubt either will happen though and instead we'll get the "it's not my fault" excuse.

 

[Gareth Marston]

If TfW have any teeth they should already be either lobbying Porterbrook to get Northern's 144s as soon as they are released, (if they are still to be realeased this autumn, which the latest edition of RAIL suggests they still are) as compensation to cover in Wales until the 769s finally arrive, or looking to hire in LHCS from October 15th.
I doubt either will happen though and instead we'll get the "it's not my fault" excuse.

There's a plan for weekdays but come Saturday? No fun watching 60/70 people trying to cram into an already full 2 car 158 that should be 4 car.....

 

[sw1ller]

cant Wait for the new route to Liverpool to come in..... talk about stretching it. The summer short forms will continue surely.

 

[Gareth Marston]

There's a plan for weekdays but come Saturday? No fun watching 60/70 people trying to cram into an already full 2 car 158 that should be 4 car.....

14/07/18
1G25 (0930 ex Aberystwyth only a 2 car 158) left Newtown with estimated 170 onboard and Welshpool with estimated 230 onboard.

 

[Cardiff123]

Apparently 5 trains a day are out of service just for de-branding, in addition to trains out of service for PRM mods, and others out for essential repairs. I though rubbing out/painting over the Arriva branding is something that can be done overnight at a depot?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Just found out via facebook that 142 073 has been withdrawn and is being stripped for parts. Very strange considering they need all the units they can muster to cover for away units.

 

[Cardiff123]

Just found out via facebook that 142 073 has been withdrawn and is being stripped for parts. Very strange considering they need all the units they can muster to cover for away units.

Was anything in particular wrong with it or are they just desperate for parts they can't get from anywhere else?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Was anything in particular wrong with it or are they just desperate for parts they can't get from anywhere else?

I don't know anything else apart from what I posted.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Has the equipment to empty toilets at Machynlleth depot been installed yet? If not, I would hope that no 158s have gone into the works yet and it is only 150s getting PRM mods right now. Otherwise, I'm assuming the newly-modified 158s will have to have their toilets locked out of use until Machynlleth depot is suitably upgraded.

I don't understand why 158s need to go for works now; surely the major refurbishment which saw the new ocean blue livery applied to the 158s handled PRM mods with only CET (toilet tanks) left to do which while a nice-to-have is not tied to the 2020 deadline so could wait until the necessary depot upgrade is done.

cant Wait for the new route to Liverpool to come in..... talk about stretching it. The summer short forms will continue surely.

My opinion: they are mad if they go ahead with introducing the Chester-Liverpool before adding at least the promised minimum of 5x class 769 to the fleet, prefrably the optional extra 769s too or early arrival of the 230s.

That’s correct. 150264, 150285 & 158822 all currently stopped for PRM at Crewe. 264 & 822 due for completion next week.

Well, it has been over a week now; have any PRM units emerged for ATW (not counting the 175s, which I assume were PRM and CET-fitted from new)?

Both 158818 and 835 are back in traffic
Brian

With or without PRM mods?

 

[Cardiff123]

150s need fitting with toilet retention tanks as well

 

[Rhydgaled]

150s need fitting with toilet retention tanks as well

Yes they do, but they don't need Machynlleth depot to empty their toilet tanks; correct me if I'm wrong (I AM GUESSING HERE) but presumably Chester, Holyhead, Crewe and Canton can all empty toilet tanks and I expect most of the 150s will visit those depots fairly frequently. With the 158s, I think most stable overnight at Machynlleth so couldn't have their tanks emptied for serveral days.

I wonder if Llandudno (Junction?) and Carmarthen, both of which stable 175s I believe, have the ability to empty toilet tanks.

 

[Gareth Marston]

jungle drums are saying the 158 tanks will only take 35 flushes before needing emptying.......

seriously need a cross legged smilie!

 

[158820]

Something ran from Cardiff Canton to Doncaster Works wagan shops on July 12th it was timed for a sprinter. Any idea if it was an atw unit going for prm/refur/mods.

 

[pemma]

jungle drums are saying the 158 tanks will only take 35 flushes before needing emptying.......

seriously need a cross legged smilie!

Surely the number depends on the reason you're going to the toilet.

 

[PHILIPE]

Just found out via facebook that 142 073 has been withdrawn and is being stripped for parts. Very strange considering they need all the units they can muster to cover for away units.

It has problems, what I don't actually know, which would be too costly to fix. A good idea to use as a Depot Christmas tree to use the parts to keep others going.

 

[craigybagel]

Has the equipment to empty toilets at Machynlleth depot been installed yet? If not, I would hope that no 158s have gone into the works yet and it is only 150s getting PRM mods right now. Otherwise, I'm assuming the newly-modified 158s will have to have their toilets locked out of use until Machynlleth depot is suitably upgraded.

I don't understand why 158s need to go for works now; surely the major refurbishment which saw the new ocean blue livery applied to the 158s handled PRM mods with only CET (toilet tanks) left to do which while a nice-to-have is not tied to the 2020 deadline so could wait until the necessary depot upgrade is done.

The 158s are not quite PRM ready yet. Whilst they are most of the way after the refurb from the start of the decade, there are still some small works that need doing. As they will need tanks fitting to make them compliant with the new rules for that kind of thing, it was decided to do both at the same time, and whilst the much more challenging work on the 150s also takes place.

Yes they do, but they don't need Machynlleth depot to empty their toilet tanks; correct me if I'm wrong (I AM GUESSING HERE) but presumably Chester, Holyhead, Crewe and Canton can all empty toilet tanks and I expect most of the 150s will visit those depots fairly frequently. With the 158s, I think most stable overnight at Machynlleth so couldn't have their tanks emptied for serveral days.

I wonder if Llandudno (Junction?) and Carmarthen, both of which stable 175s I believe, have the ability to empty toilet tanks.

Whilst it is true that most 158s stable at Machynlleth, they are also kept at various other parts of the network - some with facilities for emptying tanks and some without. Diagrams could possibly be altered in the short term to keep them away from those depots not currently fitted as much as possible.

AFAIK, tanks can currently be emptied at a Holyhead, Chester, Crewe (not currently used by ATW services) and Canton. Carmarthen is a definite no at present - I've no idea if the new franchise plans on changing that, but 175s have been stabling there for years despite not being able to be tanked.

 

[AndrewE]

Apparently 5 trains a day are out of service just for de-branding, in addition to trains out of service for...

Seeing as no-one else has said it yet, then I will (for the benefit of our privatisation/franchising enthusasts.) Please explain how this saves money and benefits the travelling public? Do the politicians and their hangers-on really still expect us to swallow their bullxxxx?