ATW/Keolis Amey Wales stock shortages

[PaulHarding150]

I've heard rumours that TfW is to hire-in three Class 37s and two rakes of four coaches for use on certain peak-hour Cardiff-Rhymney services, freeing four Class 150s. Any truth in this?

Or indeed in rumours of shortened HSTs for the North Wales Coast, or are they simply that - rumours?

The C679s are earmarked for the Rhymney line.

I can just see the reaction is a 50 year old engine is brought in to the valley lines just as the 30 year old pacers are set to leave!

 

[hexagon789]

The C679s are earmarked for the Rhymney line.

I can just see the reaction is a 50 year old engine is brought in to the valley lines just as the 30 year old pacers are set to leave!

Supposed to cover for the withdrawal of the Pacers actually!

I still have no idea whether this is even being discussed by TfW let alone planned.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Supposed to cover for the withdrawal of the Pacers actually!

I still have no idea whether this is even being discussed by TfW let alone planned.

First off all apologies I meant Class 769 not 679.

TfW are getting 9x4 car 679s. 5 which ATW and the Welsh Govt ordered plus an additional four ordered by TfW/KA themselves.

Those 9x4 car units will not be able to cover the work done by 30x2 car pacers.

The 769s have initially been earmarked for the Rumney line and were whilst ATW still ran the service. This was confirmed by the Welsh Transport Minister last month.

I have no knowledge but a common sense approach would say that the rumour you heard is just that. You freely admit that you have "no idea whether this is even being discussed by TfW let alone planned" so I think it's best to leave it at that. I stand by my prediction of an unfavorable reaction if 50 year old trains are brought in even for a short period.

And lets face it rumours often start from someone sat in a pub or someone sat at home posting on a forum and can then spread like Chinese whispers.

 

[PHILIPE]

When TFW reply to Tweets regarding overcrowding and say what traction is expected, there has been no mention of LHCS

 

[hexagon789]

First off all apologies I meant Class 769 not 679.

TfW are getting 9x4 car 679s. 5 which ATW and the Welsh Govt ordered plus an additional four ordered by TfW/KA themselves.

Those 9x4 car units will not be able to cover the work done by 30x2 car pacers.

The 769s have initially been earmarked for the Rumney line and were whilst ATW still ran the service. This was confirmed by the Welsh Transport Minister last month.

I have no knowledge but a common sense approach would say that the rumour you heard is just that. You freely admit that you have "no idea whether this is even being discussed by TfW let alone planned" so I think it's best to leave it at that. I stand by my prediction of an unfavorable reaction if 50 year old trains are brought in even for a short period.

And lets face it rumours often start from someone sat in a pub or someone sat at home posting on a forum and can then spread like Chinese whispers.

I thought it was very probably a rumour and little more than that, but it was reasonable enough to believe it could be true.

When TFW reply to Tweets regarding overcrowding and say what traction is expected, there has been no mention of LHCS

Fair enough, I never really thought about asking them directly.

 

[Cardiff123]

In the latest issue of RAIL magazine reporting on the first 769 being delivered to Canton a few weeks ago, TfW are not committing to having any 769s in service for the May TT change.
I doubt that passengers will care whether they are on a Mk2 coach or a 769, they just want a seat. And if it's a choice between a 4 coach rake of Mk2's or a short formed 2 car Pacer or 150, they'll take the rake of Mk2's for a few months.

The rumours all add up - the peak time Rhymney diagrams have been changed from 20th May with the 0724 and 0742 off Rhymney terminating at Central rather than working through to Penarth, and the 1701, 1731, 1746 and 1831 up to Rhymney all starting at Central rather than originating from Penarth.
The DRS Cumbrian 37s + Mk2's are now free. TfW desperately need cover to release 150s for PRM mods and to have WSP fitted ahead of this autumn. And TfW are desperate for more capacity. The 769s are heavily delayed. Northern's Pacers are not coming. It all adds up.

 

[anamyd]

First off all apologies I meant Class 769 not 679.

TfW are getting 9x4 car 679s. 5 which ATW and the Welsh Govt ordered plus an additional four ordered by TfW/KA themselves.

Those 9x4 car units will not be able to cover the work done by 30x2 car pacers.

The Pacers are being replaced (in the short term) by both the 9x 769s and an internal cascade of 17x 150/2s displaced from other lines by the incoming 12x 170s and 5x 230s.

 

[hexagon789]

In the latest issue of RAIL magazine reporting on the first 769 being delivered to Canton a few weeks ago, TfW are not committing to having any 769s in service for the May TT change.
I doubt that passengers will care whether they are on a Mk2 coach or a 769, they just want a seat. And if it's a choice between a 4 coach rake of Mk2's or a short formed 2 car Pacer or 150, they'll take the rake of Mk2's for a few months.

The rumours all add up - the peak time Rhymney diagrams have been changed from 20th May with the 0724 and 0742 off Rhymney terminating at Central rather than working through to Penarth, and the 1701, 1731, 1746 and 1831 up to Rhymney all starting at Central rather than originating from Penarth.
The DRS Cumbrian 37s + Mk2's are now free. TfW desperately need cover to release 150s for PRM mods and to have WSP fitted ahead of this autumn. And TfW are desperate for more capacity. The 769s are heavily delayed. Northern's Pacers are not coming. It all adds up.

So it could well be true then! Interesting.

Wonder if the HST rumour has any worth in it as well.

 

[PHILIPE]

In the latest issue of RAIL magazine reporting on the first 769 being delivered to Canton a few weeks ago, TfW are not committing to having any 769s in service for the May TT change.
I doubt that passengers will care whether they are on a Mk2 coach or a 769, they just want a seat. And if it's a choice between a 4 coach rake of Mk2's or a short formed 2 car Pacer or 150, they'll take the rake of Mk2's for a few months.

The rumours all add up - the peak time Rhymney diagrams have been changed from 20th May with the 0724 and 0742 off Rhymney terminating at Central rather than working through to Penarth, and the 1701, 1731, 1746 and 1831 up to Rhymney all starting at Central rather than originating from Penarth.
The DRS Cumbrian 37s + Mk2's are now free. TfW desperately need cover to release 150s for PRM mods and to have WSP fitted ahead of this autumn. And TfW are desperate for more capacity. The 769s are heavily delayed. Northern's Pacers are not coming. It all adds up.

The Rhymney plans may have been set up to accommodate 769s. 37s are not wanted now 14 years on. When they were working on the Cumbrian Coast up to the end of last year, they were breaking down every other day. I would like to see copies in black and white of supporting documents from official sources for any proposal.

 

[anamyd]

So the 144s aren't coming and the 37 + Mk2s are unreliable... What should TfW be trying to get hold of for temporary use...?

 

[Cardiff123]

How are the 150/2s going to be fitted with WSP and PRM modified in the next few months, in time to replace the Pacers in January next year, without anything to cover for them this summer?

 

[anthony263]

I think we are better off waiting till may and see what turns up. Don't forget only 769002 has turned up and no northern pacers

 

[anamyd]

How are the 150/2s going to be fitted with WSP and PRM modified in the next few months, in time to replace the Pacers in January next year, without anything to cover for them this summer?

Ask TfW not me

 

[Cardiff123]

Ask TfW not me

It seems impossible doesn't it

 

[PHILIPE]

Somebody has asked TFW Tweet re rumour of 37s & LHCS and reply given as nothing has been heard

 

[Kyle1]

So the 144s aren't coming and the 37 + Mk2s are unreliable... What should TfW be trying to get hold of for temporary use...?

Aren't the Greater Anglia 156's available soon?

 

[PHILIPE]

Aren't the Greater Anglia 156's available soon?

How soon ? Rumour (again) they are going to EMT

 

[anamyd]

It seems impossible doesn't it

nothing is impossible

 

[MatthewRead]

I've heard rumours that TfW is to hire-in three Class 37s and two rakes of four coaches for use on certain peak-hour Cardiff-Rhymney services, freeing four Class 150s. Any truth in this?

Or indeed in rumours of shortened HSTs for the North Wales Coast, or are they simply that - rumours?

Class 37's were a common sight on the Rhymney line until 2006.

 

[ancientsolar]

Rumours are flying out from everywhere about 37s coming to the Rhymney valley once again from several sources. Nothing official but it's been said that the 150s PRM mods need to all be done before the newyear of 2020. Otherwise there will be issues with suitable PRM stock as the pacers are retired for the same reason.
I suppose the urgency is further enhanced, as by Autumn with leaf fall it could create a lot of flats.. as it has previously.

Further to that, there is now a rumour that 769s would have trouble with one of the curves at Queen Street Station.

December Will be an interesting one, the class 67s are supposed to be hauling 3 TPD to Holyhead from Cardiff according to TFW's plans.

I went to Cardiff yesterday and there was rumours of 37s, and on facebook, rumours have been flying in for about a week.

I am sure some people have knowledge about potential 37s moving around.. from DRS to wherever.

5x 153s from GWR should be arriving soon! the little that does, could even help.

 

[S-Bahn]

I'm off to Ladbrokes to see if they will take a bet on TFW being insolvent and not running the franchise in 2020.

I think they have massively over-promised with their pitch for the franchise and they can't source the necessary diesels until the (likely to be delayed) electrification is completed.

Can GWR led them some 165/166's Turbo's as an interim measure?

 

[158820]

I'm off to Ladbrokes to see if they will take a bet on TFW being insolvent and not running the franchise in 2020.

I think they have massively over-promised with their pitch for the franchise and they can't source the necessary diesels until the (likely to be delayed) electrification is completed.

Can GWR led them some 165/166's Turbo's as an interim measure?

No turbos will be loaned thats for sure.

Time will tell a lot. Rail franchises usually don't go insolvent that quickly remember this tfw franchise is under the control of the Welsh Assembly so a bit different.
There are some positives 150 prm work is continuing. A 769 has been delivered for fitter training. Lner should release mark 4s to schedule as there is an introduction date in May for their replacements(800s).

The big issues are 230s and 769s.
769s no mainline running/testing ie no ORR approval.
230s from reading this forum will they be suitable for the routes planned.

 

[S-Bahn]

Seems to me it would make more sense for the 769's to be used on the Thames Valley branch lines (where they can do most of their running on the wires and virtually eliminate diesel use at Paddington) and for Turbos to be made available for South Wales as an interim measure.

The loss of the pacers with no available temp rolling stock is a disaster.

 

[Parallel]

Can GWR led them some 165/166's Turbo's as an interim measure?

I would say next to no chance on that one. Some of the Turbos are stuck at Reading due to delays with the electrification. Now the 153s are going, GWR can't even release their Pacers, and there are not enough Turbos to cover Cardiff - Portsmouth, so the 158s are still operating most services here than going further West.

 

[Neen Sollars]

anamyd reports on the "Creation of Class 230" thread that all 5 of the 3 car units for TfW are in production, first to be delivered this summer with all delivered and in service by the end of 2019. As stated by boss of Vivarail at a railway conference in Wales.

 

[anamyd]

have all started at least the earliest stage of build; that's the way I interpreted it

 

[anamyd]

Here's the tweet:

Modern Railways Twitter, 22 Mar 2019 - https://twitter.com/Modern_Railways/status/1109110750122000384

Adrian Shooter says all five @Vivarail Class 230s for @tfwrail in production at an early stage, first one to be delivered in the summer. First will have prototype train for driver training, aiming to have all five trains in service by the end of the year #ffcwales

 

[anamyd]

158-835 in service with Persons with Reduced Mobility modifications today, seen at Aberystwyth on the 2340 Machynlleth, still in ex Arriva Trains Wales livery. I'm counting this one as number 11, and will count 839 as number 12 and the "half way stage" when I see it

 

[Honest Ross]

Is 175107 still running around with its centre car missing?

 

[craigybagel]

Is 175107 still running around with its centre car missing?

Yes. It's currently on the 1321 Cardiff to Holyhead.