ATW/Keolis Amey Wales stock shortages

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by ATW158Xpress, 25 Jun 2018.

  1. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    Surely on a forum everybody has the right to contradict everybody else if they feel it's necessary?
     
  2. Envoy

    Envoy Established Member

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    It has been mentioned that the 175’s can’t be rescued by other types of train because the coupling is non standard. Does anyone know if the new fleets ordered by Transport for Wales from CAF & Stadler will have common couplings? In addition, will the new trains replace the stock coming from the East Coast that will be hauled by the 67’s?

    Comment has also been made about the fact that The Marches are not as crowded as some people make out & that the problem really arises when a 2 car is in use. Perhaps with 5 car trains in operation, fares could be lowered to induce more people to travel by train? For example, a 1 hour journey from Hereford to Cardiff costs £24.10 whilst a 1 hour 30 minute journey from Hereford to Birmingham costs £17.51 - both quotes being off peak day returns. So, it looks to me like price is being used to suppress demand possibly due to a lack of capacity? Clearly, seeing this, people in Hereford are more likely to go to Birmingham rather than Cardiff for major city shopping.
     
    Last edited: 24 Jun 2019
  3. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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    This 175/1 is to provide 3 carriages for capacity purposes
     
  4. 6Gtraincrew

    6Gtraincrew Member

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    I have no idea what couplers the Stadler and CAF stock will use, so can't help with that. But the MK4 stock will be used to provide 3 Gerald's in each direction between Holyhead and Cardiff with First Class and full buffet car service on board.
     
  5. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

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    Yes but its absurd that there is a 3 carriage 175 on Ebbw Vale for one morning and one evening peak journey, carrying around fresh air most of the day, whilst completely unsuitable 150s are working on the Marches at the moment.
     
  6. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    When the new timetable comes online, there'll be a full 2tph south of Shrewsbury, too. That ought to help stimulate demand a little bit. (1tp2h Liverpool - Cardiff, as well as the existing 1tp2h Holyhead - Cardiff and 1tph Manchester - Swansea/West Wales)
     
  7. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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    If you were to travel on those Ebbw Vale services you might change your opinion and more so if you were left behind if they are only 2 Cars.
     
  8. Welshman

    Welshman Established Member

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    What pique!

    I, for one, value the informed comments of those who work in the industry and make the time to post on here.
     
  9. Chris217

    Chris217 Member

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    @Welshman... How very friendly...
    Thank you
     
  10. Envoy

    Envoy Established Member

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    Many thanks for the responses to my earlier post.
     
  11. Jez

    Jez Member

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    Is the 175 booked for Ebbw Vale on there all day or just for the morning/evening peak and works elsewhere in between? If its there all day it does seem a waste of resource given there is a shortage of 175s on the Manchester-South Wales runs currently. Would it be easier to attach a 153 to a 150 during peak time and then the single 150 could work the services during the middle of the day.
     
  12. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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    Only peaks. Diagramming is very complex and to an outsider things which may seem obvious and simple may not in practice so be. You have got to have a 153 available as they may be doing other work suitable for them.
     
  13. Philip

    Philip Established Member

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    Moving further north with 175 allocations; since none are actually booked to work Chester to Liverpool, why have they been turning up on that route a fair few times, even some 3-coach units? If one is sat spare at Chester, I'd have thought they would prioritize strengthening of the Manchester and Crewe routes over the Halton Curve.
     
  14. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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    TFW have to use what is available at the time. So do you suggest that they use any available 175s at Chester to strengthen other routes and cancel the Halton Curve service.
     
  15. Philip

    Philip Established Member

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    I suggest taking the 150 off the Crewe-Chester shuttle and putting the spare 175 in its place, then that 150 can work the Halton curve.

    Crewe to Chester ought to be a 175 route outright to take advantage of the 90mph line speed and with it being a well used link to London and the West Midlands, as well as an additional route for Manchester passengers. They worked this route a lot more in FNW and early ATW days.
     
  16. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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    They would both have to be at Chester at the same time without causing any delay while changing over and, as I said in an earlier post, allocation is not as simple as people think it is as it appears on the surface. Don't worry as you're due to get 230s on the Chester to Crewe shuttle in due course.
     
  17. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    The thing is, nobody is on that service for more then 23 minutes, so if you're going to have to endure a 150 anywhere the Crewe Chester shuttle is a good place for it.
     
  18. Tom Maddox

    Tom Maddox Member

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    Yeah, that seems to make sense. The 0711 Crewe to Chester and the 2045 Chester to Crewe services are the 67/Mark 3s if you fancy a change from the 150s
     
  19. Eccles1983

    Eccles1983 On Moderation

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    What's this spare unit you speak of?

    There are no spare units. Just because you may see one parked up does not mean it's spare. The fleet is stretched to breaking point at the minute.

    And as a side issue - 230's won't be used on the shuttle as it stands. Bidston Wrexham and Llandudno branch line.
     
  20. Jez

    Jez Member

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    I think a 150 is fine on the Crewe-Chester service, as its a short run and a 175 would be wasted there. It would make sense for the Chester-Liverpool services to be booked 175 since they are based right there in Chester. I don't understand why they aren't booked 175 to be honest.
     
  21. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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    And increase the possibility of more 150s having to work along the Marches because you have used two up for what is also a comparatively short journey
     
  22. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

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    If 158s weren't confined to the Cambrian, you'd hope that they would be working the Marches with 150s on the Cambrian.
    Is ETCS on the Cambrian really a better (and presumably cheaper) signalling system than conventional colour light signalling?
     
  23. DavidGrain

    DavidGrain Member

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    My understanding was that ETCS had to be tested as a pilot system so the Cambrian was chosen as it was a long line with no other lines interworking with it and non ETCS fitted stock could be kept off the line.
     
  24. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

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    Yes, though the RETB had to go anyway as it was preventing 4G communications
     
  25. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

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    So has ETCS been rolled out anywhere else in the UK since the pilot started over a decade ago?
     
  26. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

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    Apparently yes on Thameslink (see below), but I think the West and East Coast mainlines will be next
     
    Last edited: 24 Jun 2019
  27. Rhydgaled

    Rhydgaled Established Member

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    That's true regarding the current suituation. However, most of the routes they are used on at the moment are getting busy and would benifit from longer trains. Not having gangways on the ends then becomes an issue as you either have to start using them in multiple (with passengers, staff and the trolley unable to get between units) or send them somewhere quieter (like my suggestion of the Heart Of Wales) where their 100mph top speed is unlikely to be of much use.

    I believe the Thameslink core is a world-first in having Automatic Train Operation ontop of ETCS. In which case yes, ETCS has been 'rolled out' elsewhere. There's also the ETCS 'National Integration Facility' though I don't know anything about it (like whether it is used for passenger services at all or even still exists).
     
  28. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    Fair point - but across nearly 20 years of operation there has never been much operation in multiple. It might be more useful now, but of course there aren't enough units to actually run them in multiple at TfW at present anyway.

    As for the future, there are plenty of routes across the country that are worked by DMUs that have no need for any more then 2 or 3 cars. Yes it would have been nice to have had gangways on them, and I'm glad to see that the new CAF units will have them, but so far it seems that not ordering them on 175s has rarely proved an issue.

    Incidentally, whilst you might think the 100mph top speed would be wasted on regional routes, it's worth pointing out that with the exception of the 230s and the Valleys Tram Trains, the entirety of the TfW fleet will be at least 100mph capable in a few years time.
     
  29. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    It's probably also significant that the other half of ATW's long-distance fleet (the 158s) did have end-gangways, so the lack of them on 175s wouldn't be as great an issue. Those services that required splitting and joining could be diagrammed for 158s rather than 175s.

    (As well as the obvious Birmingham-Cambrian/Holyhead diagrams, there were the services splitting at Llandudno Junction to serve both Llanduno and Holyhead, and latterly the evening services dividing at LLJ to drop a unit for peak extras back to Chester.)
     
  30. coppercapped

    coppercapped Established Member

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    ETCS has been fitted in the Heathrow tunnels to replace the existing obsolete Automatic Train Protection system. It is not yet active as the systems interfere when both are active at the same time. Published plans state that when the Class 387s take over the running of the Heathrow Express service from the Class 331s the old system will be deactivated and removed.
     

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