Avanti and their current problems. What could be done to improve things?

[Jamesrob637]

Pahaha working, like I and they did when everyone like you were on their arses on 80% wages doing nothing

Furlough was fun in first lockdown because it was a novelty. After that, it was tedious

 

[Bletchleyite]

Furlough was fun in first lockdown because it was a novelty. After that, it was tedious

Indeed, it was work that kept me sane as there wasn't a lot else to do. Not everyone likes sleeping in and watching daytime TV.

 

[SJN]

Furlough was fun in first lockdown because it was a novelty. After that, it was tedious

Well train crew didn’t get furloughed which is why your other comment was so bizarre.

 

[Carlisle]

Well train crew didn’t get furloughed which is why your other comment was so bizarre.

Some TOCs offered spare from home etc, Northern & TPE even balloted for industrial action in attempt to force a retention of that system.

 

[43066]

Some TOCs offered spare from home etc, Northern & TPE even balloted for industrial action in attempt to force a retention of that system.

Which was for a few weeks in the first lockdown and - by definition - only applied when actually spare (which wasn’t often).

Utterly ludicrous to compare that to furlough where people were essentially paid a salary by the government to do nothing.

 

[Carlisle]

Which was for a few weeks in the first lockdown and - by definition - only applied when actually spare (which wasn’t often).

Utterly ludicrous to compare that to furlough where people were essentially paid a salary by the government to do nothing.

That might’ve been your personal experience, however clearly colleague’s elsewhere must’ve enjoyed it far more given they were willing to enter into a dispute to keep it .

 

[43066]

That might’ve been your personal experience, however clearly colleague’s elsewhere must’ve enjoyed it far more given they were willing to enter into a dispute to keep it .

More rubbish.

Can you see why having lots of people sat around in a room was seen by the unions as rather risky during a respiratory virus pandemic? At lot of people were terrified of Covid by the government’s messaging.

Millions were literally paid to do nothing for months on end by the government, and here you are attacking traincrew for spare from home. Rather says it all about your agenda…

Were you furloughed yourself?

 

[Carlisle]

Were you furloughed yourself?

No I wasn’t.
I think you’ll find the ballots for industrial action came about around mid/ late 2021 when UK society was supposed to be returning to something resembling normality. Clearly I wasn’t advocating full mess rooms during the initial height of the pandemic.

 

[CAF397]

Some TOCs offered spare from home etc, Northern & TPE even balloted for industrial action in attempt to force a retention of that system.

There was no ballot. There was a breakdown of talks between the union and the company during the Omicron government guidance in November/December to "work from home if you can".

Staff at HQ were once again allowed to work from home, the union asked the company to extend/reintroduce "spare from home" for traincrew when spare, but the company refused, so you had a stalemate where effectively one role was given the right to stay at home to keep safe, and another was refused that option.

 

[Carlisle]

There was no ballot. There was a breakdown of talks between the union and the company during the Omicron government guidance in November/December to "work from home if you can".

Staff at HQ were once again allowed to work from home, the union asked the company to extend/reintroduce "spare from home" for traincrew when spare, but the company refused, so you had a stalemate where effectively one role was given the right to stay at home to keep safe, and another was refused that option.

Thanks for clarifying things

 

[Efini92]

That might’ve been your personal experience, however clearly colleague’s elsewhere must’ve enjoyed it far more given they were willing to enter into a dispute to keep it .

There was a bit more to it than that. The unions wanted the spares at home because the mess rooms would’ve been overcrowded and potentially spread the virus.

 

[SJN]

Some TOCs offered spare from home etc, Northern & TPE even balloted for industrial action in attempt to force a retention of that system.

I never had a spare at home shift. Obviously they had to be introduced due to the reduced timetable and not being able to have lots of people sitting around in mess rooms. Depending on size of room, there was a limit for the amount of people allowed in. Not comparable to furlough at all so I fail to see what this has to do with the original comment by the poster I was replying to.

 

[Cowley]

I don’t think the furlough stuff is too relevant here. Maybe that could be left where it is now please.

 

[voyagerdude220]

To save making a new thread for a trivial criticism.. I've spotted this online:

1M05 09:30 Glasgow Central to London Euston due 14:16 has been delayed between Carlisle and Lancaster and is now 10 minutes late.

This is due to an unusually large passenger flow.

Service full and standing from Lancaster. First class is declassified at front.

---

What I feel is inaccurate is the usage of the word "unusually" - this train is very often reported to be full and standing. It doesn't help that today it's formed of a 9car instead of 11- even when it's got 11 cars it's probably still very crowded.

 

[317 forever]

Manchester also has the benefit of several services that continue to stations that allow connections to London, so all 3 being cancelled isn't the end of the world.

I have deduced this morning that I can have a day out in London on the August Bank Holiday! I can use Northern to Crewe and a Super Off-peak Return with London North Western from there. It will be valid all day too, which is more than can be said for Saturday availability.

(I would ride CrossRail, alleviating the disappointment that it will be suspended on my original choice of date, October 29th).

5 tph out of Euston would appear to be the solution in theory

Maybe:

1 every 2 hours to Glasgow via Trent Valley
1 every 2 hours to Edinburgh to Birmingham
1 every hour to Manchester via Trent Valley
1 every hour to Manchester via Birmingham
1 every hour to Liverpool via Trent Valley

Admittedly I think I've seen a similar suggestion on this forum

 

[Watershed]

There was no ballot. There was a breakdown of talks between the union and the company during the Omicron government guidance in November/December to "work from home if you can".

Staff at HQ were once again allowed to work from home, the union asked the company to extend/reintroduce "spare from home" for traincrew when spare, but the company refused, so you had a stalemate where effectively one role was given the right to stay at home to keep safe, and another was refused that option.

Except that for most HQ roles, the work can be completed just as effectively at home as it can from the office. The decision to come in is one that people make primarily for social reasons.

The same can't be said of "spare from home". One of the main reasons for having spares is that you have traincrew ready to spring into action at a moment's notice. Having to wait an hour (or more) to get someone in renders it fairly pointless.

There were no legal restrictions in England during Omicron, other than the mask mandate (which did not apply in workplaces). If anyone felt at risk in a "crowded" messroom they had the option to wear an FFP2/3 mask. Frankly, these were specious arguments that were merely a reflection of the unions' dogmatic left wing views.

 

[The Planner]

Maybe:

1 every 2 hours to Glasgow via Trent Valley
1 every 2 hours to Edinburgh to Birmingham
1 every hour to Manchester via Trent Valley
1 every hour to Manchester via Birmingham
1 every hour to Liverpool via Trent Valley

Admittedly I think I've seen a similar suggestion on this forum

Thats 4tph. If you are going 5tph then its a Manchester, Birmingham, both of the Glasgows and the Liverpool.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thats 4tph. If you are going 5tph then its a Manchester, Birmingham, both of the Glasgows and the Liverpool.

Unless they are operated by crews who don't sign anything else, the North Wales shuttle should be binned off. There are other services available.

 

[Watershed]

Unless they are operated by crews who don't sign anything else, the North Wales shuttle should be binned off. There are other services available.

As there's now a Holyhead driver depot - who only sign as far as Crewe - I would imagine a good portion of those shuttles fall into exactly that category.

 

[The Planner]

Unless they are operated by crews who don't sign anything else, the North Wales shuttle should be binned off. There are other services available.

It is the first thing Avanti bin off if their are planned engineering works as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As there's now a Holyhead driver depot - who only sign as far as Crewe - I would imagine a good portion of those shuttles fall into exactly that category.

Ah, fair enough. If there's nothing else those crews could do they might as well run to Crewe as drink tea.

 

[CAF397]

Except that for most HQ roles, the work can be completed just as effectively at home as it can from the office. The decision to come in is one that people make primarily for social reasons.

The same can't be said of "spare from home". One of the main reasons for having spares is that you have traincrew ready to spring into action at a moment's notice. Having to wait an hour (or more) to get someone in renders it fairly pointless.

There were no legal restrictions in England during Omicron, other than the mask mandate (which did not apply in workplaces). If anyone felt at risk in a "crowded" messroom they had the option to wear an FFP2/3 mask. Frankly, these were specious arguments that were merely a reflection of the unions' dogmatic left wing views.

Since March 2020 at my depot the spare at home worked. Given an hour to get into depot for work, after being phoned by the traincrew controller. There were rostered Service Protection turns for the immediate cases where a train needed covering ASAP.

An extension to this method of work was requested, and flatly denied.

 

[43066]

Except that for most HQ roles, the work can be completed just as effectively at home as it can from the office. The decision to come in is one that people make primarily for social reasons.

The same can't be said of "spare from home". One of the main reasons for having spares is that you have traincrew ready to spring into action at a moment's notice. Having to wait an hour (or more) to get someone in renders it fairly pointless.

There were no legal restrictions in England during Omicron, other than the mask mandate (which did not apply in workplaces). If anyone felt at risk in a "crowded" messroom they had the option to wear an FFP2/3 mask. Frankly, these were specious arguments that were merely a reflection of the unions' dogmatic left wing views.

To be fair standby turns, not spares, are there to cover the ability to “spring into action” and they were (understandably) expected to come in throughout. Unutilised spare crews are merely an additional “nice to have”, especially at a time when the timetable was reduced. People who were spare and allocated something could also be asked to come in the next day, or called that morning to come in for a PM turn, so “work from home if you can” fits this scenario pretty well.

In this case the union was simply urging the company to follow the advice of the government at the time, nothing to do with “dogmatic left wing views”. Even at the height of the pandemic it was not unusual to encounter messrooms with a dozen people in them (including spare, standby and running turn staff taking breaks) which - whatever your views on Covid - was a fairly stupid approach given the isolation requirements. Hence something had to be done.

Indeed withdrawal of the policy rather backfired where I am, when the “pingdemic” meant that one “infected” person in a messroom would wipe out half a dozen people with needing to isolate, so that trains were were being cancelled due to lack of crews and they had to start begging for people to do overtime again .

Overall spare from home was a long time ago now, over very briefly and was a non issue for myself and most of my colleagues due to rarely actually being spare. I’m honestly not sure why it keeps being brought up by certain people on here, other than to further their usual anti staff agenda (and in this case seemingly making up ballots for action that never happened).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are they still spouting that "unofficial strike action" line? I think it is time for ASLEF to take that to Court.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

If it genuinely was unofficial strike action then I am sure that Avanti would by now have taken ASLEF to court.
When industrial relations are poor then it really doesn't help for Avanti to be making them worse.

 

[Retorus]

Are they still spouting that "unofficial strike action" line? I think it is time for ASLEF to take that to Court.

They've unsurprisingly restricted the replies to the tweet too, but all that means is more people seeing the subsequent quote tweets. D'oh.

 

[Furrball]

And I was of the understanding that it was a train manager shortage rather than driver (hence ECS movements)

 

[OhNoAPacer]

WMT aren't only getting people switching because Avanti are rubbish, they're switching because Avanti are refusing their money!

(I wonder if EMR are seeing significant "refugees" via the Hope Valley and Sheffield? Not as cheap though).

Are we going to see the ultimate Avanti situation where they run very few trains and you can't manage to buy a ticket for any if them.

 

[ymbongo]

If a company wanted to guarantee that as many of its employees as possible would look elsewhere for employment, it could hardly do worse (or better) than Avanti.

Public accusations of dishonesty with sickness, threats of ripping up historic agreements if staff don't work their days off, imposition of rosters without any consultation at all, and libellous claims against staff, not to mention that by sheer virtue of their inability to run a timetable sensibly, they expose staff to far greater risk of assault and abuse while at work.

What an awful shower of excrement, and fascinating, in a horrifying sort of way, to see how quickly things have turned bad since the Virgin days.

 

[duncanp]

1tph Euston to Glasgow via Birmingham and Manchester you read it here first

I trust that remark is in jest, although maybe not if things don't improve.

The summary for the timetable from 14th August says:-

We plan to run four trains an hour from London Euston, one to each of Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham. Every two hours, we will run through to Edinburgh, via the West Midlands. There will be a shuttle service between Crewe and Holyhead, plus a limited through service between Euston and Chester of one a day.

Perhaps the government should consider temporary easements to the routing guide to give passengers alternatives which don't currently exist.

eg. Birmingham to London St Pancras via Leicester.

Not currently permitted, but the journey time is comparable to Chiltern and LNW, and it could help spread the load.