Avanti platform staff bawling at passengers

[Howardh]

You might think so and yet people still smoke in the toilets, leave their luggage on the seat next to them and try to evade paying the fare.

So the announcements don't work then!!

if you are on a platform edge and a unit isn't stopping and flying through at 100mph then fair enough. I've seen folks nearly get their hands chopped off because they are recording one on their mobile. But for a train that's grinding to a halt, surely the priority is to stand back to allow everyone off?

 

[12LDA28C]

So the announcements don't work then!!

if you are on a platform edge and a unit isn't stopping and flying through at 100mph then fair enough. I've seen folks nearly get their hands chopped off because they are recording one on their mobile. But for a train that's grinding to a halt, surely the priority is to stand back to allow everyone off?

Indeed, and of course other factors come into play if a train has already boarded and people are still standing near the platform edge preventing that train from being dispatched. In this scenario I can understand why people might be asked, or even told to 'stand back' to clear the PTI to allow dispatch. Of course I am not advocating staff being aggressive towards passengers but firmness is sometimes necessary.

 

[island]

I would guess that the yellow lines are closer on Underground as all trains will stop at the station.
On NR lines, you can have trains barreling through at linespeed, so more space is required to allow for the turbulence and slipstream created.

What about the Met?

 

[HORNIMANS]

This is nonsense. If they are headdown and earphones in shouting at them won't achieve anything. And makes everyone less inclined to pay any attention whatsoever.

I was travelling around on GWR for a few days, and without exception every station was announced (either auto or manually) as having a larger than usual gap. It simply can't be possible for every station to have a larger than usual gap, so everyone simply ignores it.

The railway really needs to get a proper grip on safety. When something goes wrong and their defence is "we shout and scream at everyone" it really won't stand up. This whole thing just makes a mockery of safety and people less inclined to listen and thus increasing risks.

Add in the scrums when platforms are announced very late there's going to be injuries in the stampede one day, but the railways are stuck in their ways that it's safer than having people queuing orderly.

it can P10 at paddington very wide and low reported to station manager

 

[Fastlane256]

Well, they have managed to find at least half a dozen people, all with the same lack of people skills. Have they recruited them direct from the Army, or the Prison Service?

TPE used to look for people from the army. I guess they thought that was the only way to stop people trying to ram into a class 185 before the novas were released.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Those platforms same here, however dare not tread onto platforms 13 to 16, when a certain member of network rail staff is on, complete with radio for back up, when on correct side of platform, he will have you moved back to the concourse, claiming in the rules staff can staff can still ask you to move no matter what, you should NOT be here, claiming reason wait on concourse until train arrives and red x means don't enter, also have had incidents with the cleaners on the buggies ie used to avanti train clean apparently hitting enthusiasts.

I used platform 14 on the 4th and did not hear anything, may have helped that I was entering the platforms while a train was disembarking, so may have been confused for someone going back to the train after forgetting something.

 

[warwickshire]

I used platform 14 on the 4th and did not hear anything, may have helped that I was entering the platforms while a train was disembarking, so may have been confused for someone going back to the train after forgetting something.

Honestly its platform 14 itself, when empty. When the 1554 London Euston to Tring is generally around platform 13 ie 1530 to 1554 especially as platform 14 is great for a side shot of a pair of 319s on the opposite platform plus it coming in and out, even btp are cool about it when explained to them, it's just that one network rail security officer, others are okay as well, this officer when on duty is most certainly on platform 14 around 1520 10 minutes before the ecs From Camden C.S comes in ie the 319s. Always makes every one go back to waiting area upstairs until the green signs clear you to enter no good if a train on 14. Once again claiming cleaners trolleys. Otherwise all else are all okay.
Milton Keynes can be keen also but as long behind yellow lines. Fill your boots to you're hearts content without interruption.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Lancaster today: two station staff walking between the yellow line and the platform edge just before the train arrived whilst yelling at people to stand behind the yellow line.

Hmm.

 

[Rover77]

Lancaster today: two station staff walking between the yellow line and the platform edge just before the train arrived whilst yelling at people to stand behind the yellow line.

Hmm.

The only people in the dispatch corridor should be the platform staff and during a dispatch the guard/TM. Staff are able to move effectively up and down the platform safely over the yellow line if it is clear of the public. They are saftey critically trained so can and do cross the yellow line in the course of their duties.

If those complaining did the job for an hour I'm sure they'd have a different point of view.

 

[Tetchytyke]

They are saftey critically trained

I’m sure they are. But walking right next to the platform edge- with their back to the approaching train- is an interesting way to implement that training.

It’s either dangerous to be beyond the yellow line or it isn’t.

 

[al78]

Britain is addicted to managerialism. The average Brit expects "adults in the room" in government and for other people to watch out for their safety at all times. Every problem is the government's or some other authority's to sort, with everyday interactions reduced to a simulacrum of a computer game, with little to no consequences for the individual.

There does seem to be an entitlement in the UK to be careless without consequence and if there are consequences it MUST be someone elses fault. I used to encounter this on one cycling forum whenever a motorist/cyclist incident was discussed and the motorist was assumed to be at fault because they were operating a heavy machine, externalising danger onto others and therefore have the greater responsibility. Any attempt to suggest the cyclist could have done something better or have avoided the incident (when that could be implied from the anecdote) would be instantly met with accusations of victim blaming and waffle about presumed liability in the Netherlands.

Perhaps what we need is a removal of most safety protocols and allow people to work out risk for themselves. When carelessness becomes associated with a heightened risk of injury or death, we'll see whether or not the primeval instinct to be aware of your surroundings and always be on the lookout for danger returns on a population scale.

This seems to be a uniquely UK thing. Why is that? No one has ever shouted at me in France or Germany, in fact I don't think I have even seen despatch staff anywhere besides the normal train crew.

I have never had anyone shout at me in the UK but I don't give anyone any motivation to do so. I'm surprised that people here have found Avanti or Euston staff rude, all the times I have travelled to Manchester I've never had a problem, maybe I have been lucky.

 

[jon0844]

It’s either dangerous to be beyond the yellow line or it isn’t.

No, there are obviously circumstances where it's okay to cross the line - or else you couldn't board or alight a train.

Safety critical staff, who are presumably fit for duty, wearing appropriate clothing, and not using headphones or on their mobiles, will be expected to be over the line some of the time to do their duties.

I have never had anyone shout at me in the UK but I don't give anyone any motivation to do so. I'm surprised that people here have found Avanti or Euston staff rude, all the times I have travelled to Manchester I've never had a problem, maybe I have been lucky.

There are some people who have said they'd refuse to move if shouted at, and would ignore any instructions. It seems very much like sovereign citizens or 'frauditors' who purposely act in certain ways to get attention, purely so they can then moan about it.

 

[TPO]

It's not the shouting that bothers me per se, it's the shouting when no one is near the line and/or a train is neither due nor coming. That is a less urgent situation for which a less urgent reminder should suffice. And I am always slightly annoyed when staff scream "stand back" and then proceed to stand dangerously close to the white line themselves while appearing to be distracted - while there could well be an innocent explanation, it isn't a good look as far as J. Public is concerned.

It's a bold statement that no train is coming.

There's rather more things running around the network than passenger trains...... there's freight, ecs and light loco moves plus a bit of yellow rail plant traffic. If the staff don't have a handy on-platform display showing all moves live 8n real time, the only thing they can do is keep the pti clear all the time.

TPO

 

[Rover77]

I’m sure they are. But walking right next to the platform edge- with their back to the approaching train- is an interesting way to implement that training.

It’s either dangerous to be beyond the yellow line or it isn’t.

The staff are aware of the approaching train and aware of the potential dangers. Some of the public including yourself may also be. But many are oblivious. It's is impossible for staff to know which category the people on their platform fall into. I am struggling to understand what you are agreived by. You appear to have a strong desire to stand on the platform edge and want to be allowed to without being advised to the contrary by staff. Why?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

There's rather more things running around the network than passenger trains...... there's freight, ecs and light loco moves plus a bit of yellow rail plant traffic. If the staff don't have a handy on-platform display showing all moves live 8n real time, the only thing they can do is keep the pti clear all the time.

There's almost always announcements of when a train is going to pass, often with lots of time spare.

 

[Rover77]

The people complaining about not being allowed to stand over the yellow line at a time they calculate to be safe are not the ones who could potentially have to answer a corporate manslaughter charge. If someone is ignored by staff and allowed to stand near the edge of a platform and a tragedy occurs, the staff will be deemed as negligent and will end up behind bars. This is what it boils down to. If you were in that position how would you manage it? Train stations are magnets for strange people and strange behaviour, and ofcourse drunken groups. It's a shame for the sane, sober and sensible.

 

[jon0844]

There's almost always announcements of when a train is going to pass, often with lots of time spare.

Can anyone spot the flaw in what you just wrote?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Can anyone spot the flaw in what you just wrote?

the almost?
There's always a possibility of something going wrong, just as much as there's the possibility of the platform staff falling ill.

 

[Trackman]

I have never had anyone shout at me in the UK but I don't give anyone any motivation to do so. I'm surprised that people here have found Avanti or Euston staff rude, all the times I have travelled to Manchester I've never had a problem, maybe I have been lucky.

Never had a problem at Picc or in fact Euston.
The thread is about boarding trains / standing behind lines I gather.
Ticket validity is a different ball game altogether.
In the BR West Coast days at terminals they would shout at you to board the train and blow their whistles as if it was a 100m dash

 

[Purple Train]

There's rather more things running around the network than passenger trains...... there's freight, ecs and light loco moves plus a bit of yellow rail plant traffic. If the staff don't have a handy on-platform display showing all moves live 8n real time, the only thing they can do is keep the pti clear all the time.

TPO

And when they do, like at Reading?

 

[DJ_K666]

Well, they have managed to find at least half a dozen people, all with the same lack of people skills. Have they recruited them direct from the Army, or the Prison Service?

Even worse than either of those. They've recruited from the darkest, dingiest guest houses and they've had training at Blackpool North

 

[800 Driver]

As a train driver, if I'm entering a platform and you are between the yellow line and platform edge I will sound the horn until you move. If you don't move I'll emergency stop the train. I also won't dispatch on DOO until you are behind the yellow line. Too many rail staff now getting charged and in court because of idiot passengers.

 

[bramling]

As a train driver, if I'm entering a platform and you are between the yellow line and platform edge I will sound the horn until you move. If you don't move I'll emergency stop the train. I also won't dispatch on DOO until you are behind the yellow line. Too many rail staff now getting charged and in court because of idiot passengers.

It does seem that a lot of this traces back to the James Street incident. This was always going to be the problem with the decision to prosecute the guard in respect of that incident.

As far as yellow lines go, there seems to be an element of mission creep - as it does seem to be the case that they were originally provided to keep people back as a mitigation against fast non-stop trains, and then to avoid people being hit by slam doors opened prematurely. I guess this is why there are so many discrepancies in where the lines are placed.

 

[jon0844]

the almost?
There's always a possibility of something going wrong, just as much as there's the possibility of the platform staff falling ill.

What difference does it make if platform staff fall ill? You're saying there's an automated system to warn people of a train coming, which almost always works.

You will of course need to be looking at the display and able to hear announcements from speakers that may have the volume turned down (to appease local residents) or not announce at all (e.g. late in the evening, very early morning) and that would suggest you're not someone on your phone or listening to music.

And when the display isn't working because there's a problem with the feed that tells it a train is in the berth (perhaps the network has gone down), or there's a software upgrade being done, or whatever other reason - you now find out when the train just turns up.

I really hope you're not responsible for anything safety related in your job.

As a train driver, if I'm entering a platform and you are between the yellow line and platform edge I will sound the horn until you move. If you don't move I'll emergency stop the train. I also won't dispatch on DOO until you are behind the yellow line. Too many rail staff now getting charged and in court because of idiot passengers.

I'm surprised at the levels of self-entitlement on here, and derogatory comments about staff who are putting safety first. It's like the sort of comments you'd expect on Facebook or Twitter/X, not a rail forum.

 

[bramling]

I'm surprised at the levels of self-entitlement on here, and derogatory comments about staff who are putting safety first. It's like the sort of comments you'd expect on Facebook or Twitter/X, not a rail forum.

I have to say I haven’t really picked up self-entitlement here. The original premise wasn’t staff being assertive, but more intimating staff shouting to the point of being aggressive. Likewise the premise of the thread doesn’t seem to be about people doing what they please, but more people who entire aren’t aware of what they’re doing, or presumably are doing what they’ve done without challenge for years and suddenly finding themselves being shouted at.

Certainly at my local station in 365 days it was *standard* practice for people to be over the yellow line in the morning peak, not helped by the line having been moved some distance back when tactile paving was installed 10-15 years ago. I’m not sure what happened with 12-car trains, but certainly with 8-cars there were no staff present but for the driver, so it was essentially anything goes. I wouldn’t say all those AM-peak commuters were self-entitled, they were merely doing the “done thing” forming queues where they knew the doors were going to stop. A few of the more savvy ones worked out that rather than standing on the platform for 20 minutes it was much less hassle to travel one stop the other way and board at the previous station!

 

[Dave91131]

As a train driver, if I'm entering a platform and you are between the yellow line and platform edge I will sound the horn until you move. If you don't move I'll emergency stop the train.

Don't ever get a job on the Tube pal. You'll never make it in to a station.

 

[Hadders]

It does seem that a lot of this traces back to the James Street incident. This was always going to be the problem with the decision to prosecute the guard in respect of that incident.

As far as yellow lines go, there seems to be an element of mission creep - as it does seem to be the case that they were originally provided to keep people back as a mitigation against fast non-stop trains, and then to avoid people being hit by slam doors opened prematurely. I guess this is why there are so many discrepancies in where the lines are placed.

At Stevenage station the fast line platformd (2 and 3) always had a yellow line and warning signs informing passengers to stand nehind the yellow line as high speed trains pass non-stop and cause turbulence etc. I don't the signs are there any longer, will have to check.

A few years back a yellow line was added to the slow line platforms (1 and 4). At some point the yellow lines were moved further back from the platform edge, tactile paving was added (which is on the platform side of the yellow line), and more recently the area between the platform edge and yellow line on the fast line platforms has been hatched with yellow paint.

 

[HarryF]

At Stevenage station the fast line platformd (2 and 3) always had a yellow line and warning signs informing passengers to stand nehind the yellow line as high speed trains pass non-stop and cause turbulence etc. I don't the signs are there any longer, will have to check.

A few years back a yellow line was added to the slow line platforms (1 and 4). At some point the yellow lines were moved further back from the platform edge, tactile paving was added (which is on the platform side of the yellow line), and more recently the area between the platform edge and yellow line on the fast line platforms has been hatched with yellow paint.

I must admit Stevenage was at the back of my mind when reading this thread, the safe space taking note of any yellow lines or hatched markings seems quite small, particularly when a fairly well loaded 12-car 700 deposits a load of passenger.

 

[Hadders]

I must admit Stevenage was at the back of my mind when reading this thread, the safe space taking note of any yellow lines or hatched markings seems quite small, particularly when a fairly well loaded 12-car 700 deposits a load of passenger.

I was waiting with a friend on platform 3 for a LNER northbound train at Stevenage last year when a Cambridge Cruiser passed through at 100mph. They were surprised that trains passed through that fast. A couple of minutes later they were even more surprised when a LNER train went through at 125mph!

I suspect one of the issues at Stevenage is when a load of passengers have just got off a train from London on platform 4 and a fast train passes through non-stop at 125mph on platform 3. The platforms are quite narrow, especially and the stairs aren’t the widest either.

 

[jon0844]

It's quite common for people to alight a train on platform 1 or 4 and then use 2 or 3 to walk down and 'jump the queue'. It's certainly more likely they'd be hearing a train horn than a member of staff shouting though. A lot of stations have PA systems with the volume very low, thanks to the local residents moaning and succeeding in having the volume cap. In those cases, if the PA won't work then you only have your voice.