Avanti's serial cancellations of last trains

[All Line Rover]

Cancellations are widespread on Avanti. Especially annoying is that cancellations of last trains have become a weekly occurrence. Particularly - but not exclusively - at weekends.

Today, 2pm on Friday, Avanti have (so far!) cancelled the last train from London to Liverpool, the last train from Liverpool to London (which is also the last train to London from Runcorn, Stafford, Lichfield, Tamworth and Nuneaton - some of these stations being unstaffed in the evening), the last train from Bangor to Crewe (which has a connection at Crewe to Birmingham - this train used to run direct to Birmingham), the penultimate two trains from London to Manchester (including the last to Macclesfield), and the last two trains from Edinburgh to Birmingham at 16.52 and 18.52 (meaning the last direct Avanti train to Birmingham is at the unbelievable time of 14.52 - albeit that some passengers are here able to transfer to the last train from Glasgow to London, which - today, at least - is still running and has had extra stops added to substitute for the Edinburgh train).

EDIT: I forgot to add the 21.15 from Manchester to London, which has also been cancelled and is the last train from Manchester, Stockport, Macclesfield and Stoke to London. Any passenger who misses the 20.15 tonight will apparently need to resort to a hotel.

EDIT NO 2: Whoops! I'm losing track. Also the last four (FOUR!) trains from Birmingham to London. The 20.10 (from Blackpool - terminating at Preston today), the 21.10 (from Edinburgh), the 22.10 AND the 23.10 (from Edinburgh - which on Fridays runs through to London and is the last train of the day from Crewe, Wolverhampton, Dudley, Birmingham Intl, Coventry, Rugby and Milton Keynes to London). As a result, unless Avanti operates a substitute service at short notice, today's last train from Birmingham to London is at 19.30. 19.30, on a Friday!

Is there any other train operator, with the possible exception of TPE, that cancels last trains on prime intercity routes with such regularity? Under Virgin it was unheard of for last trains to be cancelled. Sometimes they ran very late (the 18.52 from Edinburgh, once four hours late during a snowstorm). But they ran.

 

[43055]

Not intercity but EMR seem to like canceling the last Nottingham to Crewe.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Cancellations are widespread on Avanti. Especially annoying is that cancellations of last trains have become a weekly occurrence. Particularly - but not exclusively - at weekends.

Today, 2pm on Friday, Avanti have (so far!) cancelled the last train from London to Liverpool, the last train from Liverpool to London (which is also the last train to London from Runcorn, Stafford, Lichfield, Tamworth and Nuneaton - some of these stations being unstaffed in the evening), the last train from Bangor to Crewe (which has a connection at Crewe to Birmingham - this train used to run direct to Birmingham), the penultimate two trains from London to Manchester (including the last to Macclesfield), and the last two trains from Edinburgh to Birmingham at 16.52 and 18.52 (meaning the last direct Avanti train to Birmingham is at the unbelievable time of 14.52 - albeit that some passengers are here able to transfer to the last train from Glasgow to London, which - today, at least - is still running and has had extra stops added to substitute for the Edinburgh train).

EDIT: I forgot to add the 21.15 from Manchester to London, which has also been cancelled and is the last train from Manchester, Stockport, Macclesfield and Stoke to London. Any passenger who misses the 20.15 tonight will apparently need to resort to a hotel.

EDIT NO 2: Whoops! I'm losing track. Also the last four (FOUR!) trains from Birmingham to London. The 20.10 (from Blackpool - terminating at Preston today), the 21.10 (from Edinburgh), the 22.10 AND the 23.10 (from Edinburgh - which on Fridays runs through to London and is the last train of the day from Crewe, Wolverhampton, Dudley, Birmingham Intl, Coventry, Rugby and Milton Keynes to London). As a result, unless Avanti operates a substitute service at short notice, today's last train from Birmingham to London is at 19.30. 19.30, on a Friday!

Is there any other train operator, with the possible exception of TPE, that cancels last trains on prime intercity routes with such regularity? Under Virgin it was unheard of for last trains to be cancelled. Sometimes they ran very late (the 18.52 from Edinburgh, once four hours late during a snowstorm). But they ran.

Delay repay ! Loads £!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Is there any other train operator, with the possible exception of TPE, that cancels last trains on prime intercity routes with such regularity? Under Virgin it was unheard of for last trains to be cancelled. Sometimes they ran very late (the 18.52 from Edinburgh, once four hours late during a snowstorm). But they ran.

If you have no crew for the last train, and we have industrial unrest of a scale not previously seen on the privatised railway you are unlikely to find a crew willing to swap off say the second to last turn to cover the last you aren’t really left with much choice but to cancel it.

Virgin didn’t have a post pandemic, DfT pay freeze, cost of living crisis to deal with.

 

[Snow1964]

Delay repay ! Loads £!

Can you explain the comment loads £! please

it makes it sound as if going to gain money, but surely you only get back what you have already spent, and end up stranded

 

[Bertie the bus]

Delay repay ! Loads £!

Life isn't always about getting a partial, or even full, refund of money you have paid for a service. Sometimes you want the service you have paid for.

 

[87015]

If you have no crew for the last train, and we have industrial unrest of a scale not previously seen on the privatised railway you are unlikely to find a crew willing to swap off say the second to last turn to cover the last you aren’t really left with much choice but to cancel it.

Virgin didn’t have a post pandemic, DfT pay freeze, cost of living crisis to deal with.

VT also walked away leaving a massive staff recruitment bomb, which covid then exacerbated into a disaster. Its far more VT than Avanti as root cause of the current issues.

 

[andystock22]

AWC are cancelling more services than even British Airways on the London to Glasgow route today!

 

[Howardh]

AWC are cancelling more services than even British Airways on the London to Glasgow route today!

The airlines should be cashing in, would love a last flight from Heathrow to Manchester after 9pm....but airports and airlines have enough issues of their own.

How are the likes of Megabus and National express managing r/e staff?

 

[dk1]

How are the likes of Megabus and National express managing r/e staff?

The coach operators have far less training to do making it easier to find replacements.

 

[Brooklands]

Surely the serious issue is leaving passengers stranded late at night with no one to assist them with alternative arrangements.
Replacement road transport is usually provided during engineering works so why not for train crew shortages. Remember they seem to have fair notice that there are likely to be issues.
The trouble is the more often the operators are allowed to get away with this so called service the more it apparently becomes acceptable.

 

[Agent_Squash]

VT also walked away leaving a massive staff recruitment bomb, which covid then exacerbated into a disaster. Its far more VT than Avanti as root cause of the current issues.

How did this come about? Did they just stop hiring when they lost the franchise?

 

[Hadders]

Virgin finished in December 2019 so I really don’t think we should be blaming them for cancellations today.

It’s shockingly bad, and the pandemic will have had an impact on training, but LNER and GWR don’t seem to have these sort of issues.

 

[All Line Rover]

Now the 22.00 London to Manchester has been cancelled too.

So that's the final three trains of the day from London to Manchester, all cancelled. On a Friday.

 

[Robertj21a]

Now the 22.00 London to Manchester has been cancelled too.

So that's the final three trains of the day from London to Manchester, all cancelled. On a Friday.

Just imagine how many hundreds of potential passengers are now thinking of permanently changing to driving a car, or catching a coach. It just gets to the stage where enough is enough.

 

[Wychwood93]

That means a total of 8 Euston/Manchester cancellations for today - 08.56, 09.40, 09.56, 10.20, 14.40, 21.00, 21.36, 22.00. 7 of these traincrew codes - 4 x TG, 3 x TH and then a lonely ZW (cause unknown). The latter being the 14.40.

Edit: 8 in the up direction as well.

 

[jfollows]

Now the 22.00 London to Manchester has been cancelled too.

So that's the final three trains of the day from London to Manchester, all cancelled. On a Friday.

All three appear to be planned to run as empty stock trains. So presumably not driver shortage.

 

[stuart100100]

The last London to Liverpool seems to have been reinstated as it left on time

 

[dk1]

Just imagine how many hundreds of potential passengers are now thinking of permanently changing to driving a car, or catching a coach. It just gets to the stage where enough is enough.

In my experience passengers have very short memories.

 

[Mag_seven]

The last London to Liverpool seems to have been reinstated as it left on time

Bet you it was cosy with lots of passengers bound for Manchester looking to change at Crewe.

 

[357]

In my experience passengers have very short memories.

But many people in daily life say "I've tried taking the train a few times" when asked why they drive everywhere

 

[yorkie]

it makes it sound as if going to gain money, but surely you only get back what you have already spent, and end up stranded

You won't end up stranded as such; you would be placed onto alternative transport. If there is no rail option (for some journeys e.g. London to Manchester there is often the possibility of going via Leeds), then it would be by rail replacement bus/taxi, which will probably be less comfortable/convenient than the train, and almost certainly slower.

In exceptional circumstances if alternative transport is not possible/practical, overnight accommodation could be provided instead, for onward travel by train the following day.

 

[gc4946]

That's unacceptable especially at short notice, I hope there's a mechanism in franchise agreements that imposes huge penalities for cancelling last trains especially long distance services out of London

 

[stuart100100]

Bet you it was cosy with lots of passengers bound for Manchester looking to change at Crewe.

Avanti are advising Manchester passengers on twitter to get the 22.30 to Wolverhampton and change there for a replacement bus leaving at 01.15!

 

[dk1]

But many people in daily life say "I've tried taking the train a few times" when asked why they drive everywhere

Many don’t though & soon return.

 

[Watershed]

Avanti are advising Manchester passengers on twitter to get the 22.30 to Wolverhampton and change there for a replacement bus leaving at 01.15!

That sounds... fun!

 

[30907]

Virgin finished in December 2019 so I really don’t think we should be blaming them for cancellations today.

It’s shockingly bad, and the pandemic will have had an impact on training, but LNER and GWR don’t seem to have these sort of issues.

Both those were preparing for an increased (IET) service and AIUI had recruited accordingly. VT were not.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Avanti are advising Manchester passengers on twitter to get the 22.30 to Wolverhampton and change there for a replacement bus leaving at 01.15!

Wonder if there'll be anyone still on duty at Wolverhampton at or after 01.00 who knows anything about this "arrangement"?

 

[philosopher]

In my experience passengers have very short memories.

If they decide to buy a car as a result of these issues, then that passenger could be lost permanently to the railway.

 

[dk1]

If they decide to buy a car as a result of these issues, then that passenger could be lost permanently to the railway.

Or until they sell it I suppose. No fun driving to London & then having to park it.