Aviation Discussion

[atillathehunn]

Hainan began their Edinburgh/Dublin route today. Two times per week it appears to go to Dublin first and then Edinburgh (then to Beijing) and twice per week it goes to Edinburgh first, thence Dublin, thence back to the motherland. All on an A330.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Ryanair have announced they are to open a new base at London Southend from 2019.

3 aircraft will be based at the airport to operate the following routes

Alicante - 5x weekly
Barcelona (Reus Airport) - 2x weekly
Bilbao - 4x weekly
Brest - 2x weekly
Corfu - 2x weekly
Cluj - 2x weekly
Dublin - 2x daily
Faro - 5x weekly
Kosice - 3x weekly
Malaga - 5x weekly
Milan Bergamot - 4x weekly
Palma De Mallorca - 4x weekly
Venice - 4x weekly

Looks like Southend will be getting a fair bit busier with these new routes.

Cheers

Ben

 

[atillathehunn]

Huge increase in flights.
Wonder how many of these will actually come to fruition, though.

How many of these are truly new routes, and how many are competition with existing easyJet and Stobart?

 

[Crawley Ben]

Huge increase in flights.
Wonder how many of these will actually come to fruition, though.

How many of these are truly new routes, and how many are competition with existing easyJet and Stobart?

From what I've read elsewhere the number of routes that will be 'up against each other' is the grand total of 4. Malaga, Faro, Alicante, & Palma. Good to see growth at a regional airport like this. Hope all works out well for the airport and those using it.

Cheers

Ben

 

[Khxds]

@Khxds - depending on when they informed you about the schedule change you may well be eligible under EC/261, so might be worth doing some research.

Many thanks for the advice! I was not aware that was something you could claim for. Unfortunately for my bank balance, i received the email 2 weeks before my outbound flight.

 

[berneyarms]

From what I've read elsewhere the number of routes that will be 'up against each other' is the grand total of 4. Malaga, Faro, Alicante, & Palma. Good to see growth at a regional airport like this. Hope all works out well for the airport and those using it.

Cheers

Ben

Flybe/Stobart serve Dublin which is on the list too.

 

[Dentonian]

Many thanks for the advice! I was not aware you could that was something you could claim for. Unfortunately for my bank balance, i received the email 2 weeks before my outbound flight.

Interesting comparison with my experience with Delta back in 2010. As part of a four centre trip, I was due in to Memphis one day and out to Philly the next morning. My original itinerary gave me 23 hours in MEM, which was slightly less than I wanted, but to depart just three hours later would have cost an extra £90 or so. Just over a week before my trip, I got the final paperwork from the Travel Agents and noted my MEM-PHL flight had been brought forward by c.75 minutes. More out of hope than expectation, on the Saturday, I rang Delta's UK contact number and explained that it was a bit inconvenient - I didn't put it stronger or less polite than that - and that I had originally said I had wanted the later flight anyway, but had been put off by the premium price. To my surprise, the lady confirmed there were seats available on the later flight. I replied that surely that would mean me paying the extra though. BuT no, she assured me they would honour the original fare......which they did. Double result as not only did I get me original preference, but also my only flight (to date) on a Canadair RJ 900, rather than a noisy old MD80.....

Whether its because Passenger Rights are (now) so much stronger in the States or whether its just an example of why "legacy" airlines still exist, I don't know.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Flybe/Stobart serve Dublin which is on the list too.

My bad - thank you for pointing that out.

Ben

 

[atillathehunn]

From what I've read elsewhere the number of routes that will be 'up against each other' is the grand total of 4. Malaga, Faro, Alicante, & Palma. Good to see growth at a regional airport like this. Hope all works out well for the airport and those using it.

Cheers

Ben

That's good. I didn't intend it to be a negative post, nor to belittle the expansion. It's always pleasing to see smaller airports grow. I really was curious how much it was going to be a blood bath on a few routes to kill competition on the part of Ryanair, and how much there was an unserved market and they were able to organically grow. Just a curiosity.

While Southend airport was a little out of the way (!) it was very clean and convenient for the station.

 

[atillathehunn]

Many thanks for the advice! I was not aware that was something you could claim for. Unfortunately for my bank balance, i received the email 2 weeks before my outbound flight.

That's a pain, sorry that you can't get anything!

 

[telstarbox]

News from LCY:

From January 2019, LOT Polish Airlines will begin twice-daily flights between London City Airport (LCY) & Warsaw Chopin Airport (WAW) on board four new Embraer-190 aircraft which the airline has invested especially in, to operate this route.

 

[telstarbox]

Ryanair have announced they are to open a new base at London Southend from 2019.

3 aircraft will be based at the airport to operate the following routes

Alicante - 5x weekly
Barcelona (Reus Airport) - 2x weekly
Bilbao - 4x weekly
Brest - 2x weekly
Corfu - 2x weekly
Cluj - 2x weekly
Dublin - 2x daily
Faro - 5x weekly
Kosice - 3x weekly
Malaga - 5x weekly
Milan Bergamot - 4x weekly
Palma De Mallorca - 4x weekly
Venice - 4x weekly

Looks like Southend will be getting a fair bit busier with these new routes.

Cheers

Ben

Makes sense - get the impression there are a lot of Spanish timeshare owner types on the Romford - Brentwood - Southend corridor.

 

[Bald Rick]

Makes sense - get the impression there are a lot of Spanish timeshare owner types on the Romford - Brentwood - Southend corridor.

It will also put the wind up Stansted, as a lot of the latter’s business to Spain / Portugal is from parts of Essex that will be convenient for Southend. And let’s not forget that Southend has a much better terminal experience - my personal record is about 5 minutes from aircraft doors open to the airport station.

 

[AlterEgo]

TAP have said that in Q4 they’ll be sending the A321LR on transatlantic flights between Porto and Newark. Truly amazing you can do that distance on a narrow body these days.

I came back from Providence to Edinburgh last week on Norwegian’s 737MAX and found it an acceptable experience for the price.

 

[atillathehunn]

That's quite the reach in a little tube, there's a lot of ocean between Portugal and the States...

How was the Norwegian experience? What's the seat like in terms of comfort/leg room etc? Was the flight busy?

Always found the problem with Turkish and their mid-haul on narrow bodies to be the queue for the toilet after dinner. Can be very claustrophobic at that point. However, most of the time I just passed out. About 6 hours to Kigali from Istanbul and most of it during darkness, so generally just slept.

 

[ModernRailways]

How was the Norwegian experience? What's the seat like in terms of comfort/leg room etc? Was the flight busy?

I'd quite like to know this too, and how does it compare with the economy on the likes of BA/Virgin Atlantic etc.

 

[AlterEgo]

That's quite the reach in a little tube, there's a lot of ocean between Portugal and the States...

How was the Norwegian experience? What's the seat like in terms of comfort/leg room etc? Was the flight busy?

Always found the problem with Turkish and their mid-haul on narrow bodies to be the queue for the toilet after dinner. Can be very claustrophobic at that point. However, most of the time I just passed out. About 6 hours to Kigali from Istanbul and most of it during darkness, so generally just slept.

I flew it eastbound overnight and it was pretty good for £120 one way. Seat pitch is tight but not punishingly so. My fare included a meal which was decent quality. No issues with toilet queues as this was an overnight and people weren’t on the drink; mostly sleeping. The flight was 95% full but remember the schedule was halved earlier this year. Many passengers including me had been transferred from the flight originally departing the day before. The passenger demographic was almost entirely American and leisure travel at that. It’s good to see Americans being enabled to reach Europe so cheaply. Once they’re in Edinburgh, Europe is their oyster as we have some genuinely cheap airlines on our continent (unlike what passes for a low fare airline in North America).

 

[AlterEgo]

I'd quite like to know this too, and how does it compare with the economy on the likes of BA/Virgin Atlantic etc.

It is a hell of a lot cheaper. I wouldn’t fly economy with them when I can tolerate Norwegian for literally half the price.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

TAP have said that in Q4 they’ll be sending the A321LR on transatlantic flights between Porto and Newark. Truly amazing you can do that distance on a narrow body these days.

Great circle distance is 3,340 miles with the Azores not too far off the track for mid-oceanic diversion. Manchester to Newark is 3,352 miles and has been operated by 757s for quite a few years. It's all about perception. Frankly I'm much more impressed by 777s between the US and Australia!

 

[atillathehunn]

Interesting perspective, thanks. I'm sure it's good news for the airline that there is traffic originating in both directions, though I really think they are overreaching with some of these routes.

They do fly where I'm going next, but not from my starting point and ending point, so I'm not using them. Using Delta instead, and my back of the fag packet calculations are that my Nairobi, Buenos Aires and Juba flights will push me over into meaningful SkyTeam status for the first time.

 

[atillathehunn]

Great circle distance is 3,340 miles with the Azores not too far off the track for mid-oceanic diversion. Manchester to Newark is 3,352 miles and has been operated by 757s for quite a few years. It's all about perception. Frankly I'm much more impressed by 777s between the US and Australia!

I know when you think about it logically it makes sense. But psychologically there's a lot of blue wobbly stuff under you in a small plane. It's bit like when I use the little car to go on a long distance drive. I know in theory it can make it, but when I hold it constantly at 120kph for 3 hours, it sulks and doesn't play nicely for a few days.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I know when you think about it logically it makes sense. But psychologically there's a lot of blue wobbly stuff under you in a small plane. It's bit like when I use the little car to go on a long distance drive. I know in theory it can make it, but when I hold it constantly at 120kph for 3 hours, it sulks and doesn't play nicely for a few days.

It's all a reflection on just how far jet engine technology has advanced over the years. Reliability is in a different league to that found with road vehicles. The issue with narrow bodies on long(ish) haul should be more about the perceived level of comfort on board given the presence of just a single aisle. And of course many 757s have the same engines (more or less) as were fitted to Tristars and some 747s. But few passengers have any interest in such technicalities so don't appreciate the way in which the technology is applied across multiple aircraft types.

 

[gsnedders]

It's all a reflection on just how far jet engine technology has advanced over the years. Reliability is in a different league to that found with road vehicles. The issue with narrow bodies on long(ish) haul should be more about the perceived level of comfort on board given the presence of just a single aisle. And of course many 757s have the same engines (more or less) as were fitted to Tristars and some 747s. But few passengers have any interest in such technicalities so don't appreciate the way in which the technology is applied across multiple aircraft types.

To me there's something far more astonishing about variants of the 737 doing transatlantic flights than 757s; the 757 was after all originally designed for a range of 6850km, whereas the 737 was originally designed for a range of only 2850 km (and the latest 737 is still on the same type certificate, with all the developmental constraints that adds). Okay, the A320 family is a newer design than the 737, but ultimately it was designed to be competitive with it and not the 757, hence it's still a bit odd!

 

[Western Lord]

To me there's something far more astonishing about variants of the 737 doing transatlantic flights than 757s; the 757 was after all originally designed for a range of 6850km, whereas the 737 was originally designed for a range of only 2850 km (and the latest 737 is still on the same type certificate, with all the developmental constraints that adds). Okay, the A320 family is a newer design than the 737, but ultimately it was designed to be competitive with it and not the 757, hence it's still a bit odd!

The 737 and the 757 have basically the same fuselage, which originated with the 707 in 1958. Before 1970 of course all long haul flight were in "narrow" bodies, including Europe to the US West Coast non stop. In fact you could do that trip non stop before the jet age in piston engine airliners that were noisy and vibrated like hell, and the journey took 16 hours or more.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Reported elsewhere that Norwegian are to launch a new twice weekly service from Tampa to London Gatwick. Starts Oct 2018.

Cheers

Ben

 

[atillathehunn]

Thanks Ben.

Same report suggests that Norwegian are going on the offensive at Gatwick.

They are increasing Fort Lauderdale and Buenos Aires to daily, Orlando goes 4x weekly, with Boston getting an increase to something that looked like daily some of the time.

They are reducing the Chicago service to 4x weekly from daily, and Austin and Seattle become seasonal. Austin has apparently been a success for BA, so it's interesting that Norwegian can't make a go of it.

No information on their Singapore route, which seems to be something like twice weekly, so assume no change.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Thanks Ben.

Same report suggests that Norwegian are going on the offensive at Gatwick.

They are increasing Fort Lauderdale and Buenos Aires to daily, Orlando goes 4x weekly, with Boston getting an increase to something that looked like daily some of the time.

They are reducing service to 4x weekly from daily, and Austin and Seattle become seasonal. Austin has apparently been a success for BA, so it's interesting that Norwegian can't make a go of it.

No information on their Singapore route, which seems to be something like twice weekly, so assume no change.

I think the Singapore schedule is 4x weekly at this moment in time (happy to be corrected if wrong).

It's been mentioned to me by colleagues at Gatwick that Minneapolis and Philadelphia are being lined up next (if the desired slots can be obtained). Will treat as a rumour unless I hear of something concrete to back the above up.

PS, I think you meant to add Chicago as the destination being scaled back to 4x weekly?

Cheers

Ben

 

[atillathehunn]

Good catch, I did indeed mean Chicago. I will edit the previous post.

Minneapolis has pretty sparse service from London (Delta alone, I believe), and therefore could be a sign of an under-served market. On the other hand, could see it being highly seasonal - I don't think anybody wants to go to the Twin Cities in the bleak mid-winter (or so I'm told by people who have).

Philadelphia I could see, major east coast city and established on the tourist trail.

And you are (of course) correct that it's 4x weekly to Singapore, I had looked at the calendar wrong. Any idea of how well it's loading?

Norwegian really seem to be going for the dartboard approach to route planning.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Good catch, I did indeed mean Chicago. I will edit the previous post.

Minneapolis has pretty sparse service from London (Delta alone, I believe), and therefore could be a sign of an under-served market. On the other hand, could see it being highly seasonal - I don't think anybody wants to go to the Twin Cities in the bleak mid-winter (or so I'm told by people who have).

Philadelphia I could see, major east coast city and established on the tourist trail.

And you are (of course) correct that it's 4x weekly to Singapore, I had looked at the calendar wrong. Any idea of how well it's loading?

Norwegian really seem to be going for the dartboard approach to route planning.

The loads I've seen on the Singapore route are much better now than when it first started up.

Cheers

Ben

 

[atillathehunn]

Interesting to hear. London to Singapore has to be one of the most well served routes in the world, in terms of seats. BA, Qantas, Singapore Airlines all send A380s on the route to Heathrow, with all the myriad connections via European, Middle Eastern and Asian hubs.