Aviation Discussion

[Butts]

BA City Flyer has about 25 give or take, not sure if mainline has any.

Edit: It's 23 with one more on order, and no mainline doesn't have any.

E190's in my view are more comfortable than any of BA's Airbus Fleet and are only 2 by 2 for seating so no "piggy in the middle".

Surely the best thing (after Pele) to come out of Brazil.

 

[Bletchleyite]

E190's in my view are more comfortable than any of BA's Airbus Fleet and are only 2 by 2 for seating so no "piggy in the middle".

Surely the best thing (after Pele) to come out of Brazil.

Completely agree - not been on them often, but they are lovely. Big windows too. Kind of has a private jet feel to it.

 

[TravelDream]

The Embraer E Jets are lovely aircraft, but not ideal for large pieces of hand luggage.

 

[Aictos]

E190's in my view are more comfortable than any of BA's Airbus Fleet and are only 2 by 2 for seating so no "piggy in the middle".

Surely the best thing (after Pele) to come out of Brazil.

I couldn't agree more, that why I flew with KLM CityHopper last October as both flights were Embraers.

Just wish the operators of the fleet served more then one London airport!

 

[najaB]

Kind of has a private jet feel to it.

Well, it can trace its DNA back to the EMB110 Bandeirante which was intended for both the military and the private aviation market. More recently, the E145 and the Legacy 600 share a common fuselage.

 

[TravelDream]

Well, it can trace its DNA back to the EMB110 Bandeirante which was intended for the private aviation market. More recently, the E145 and the Legacy 600 share a common fuselage.

The E145 ERJ family, by comparison, is a complete dog for the passenger. Very low, small windows and a very cramped layout. The luggage bins are tiny too. They are suitable more for a handbag or laptop case than any sort of real hand luggage.

Not in anyway comparable to the E-Jet family (E170/175/190/195)

 

[Butts]

The Embraer E Jets are lovely aircraft, but not ideal for large pieces of hand luggage.

Well I saw some people with reasonable sized hand baggage , certainly more room than Q400's in the bins.

 

[Bald Rick]

Anyone used Vueling? As I understand it, they're a low cost airline owned by the IAG group but never used them so just wondered what views of them were?

Not used, but have not heard much good about them. Better than Ryan*ir, obvs.

A quick search of this thread might help!

 

[najaB]

Not in anyway comparable to the E-Jet family (E170/175/190/195)

I know they aren't the same jet, just pointing out that the reason that the ERJ/E-Jet/E-Jet2 families have a private jet "feel" is that it's in their DNA. The Lineage is, of course, derived from the E170.

As an aside, the E17x was originally going to be a new fuselage and wing with a E145 nose and cockpit, though they dropped that idea after a while.

 

[Butts]

Surely The Embraer should represent the future of Long Distance Travel in the UK ?

What other mode of Transport could take off from Newquay in Cornwall and convey you to Sumburgh in The Shetland Islands in less then 2 Hours.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely The Embraer should represent the future of Long Distance Travel in the UK ?

What other mode of Transport could take off from Newquay in Cornwall and convey you to Sumburgh in The Shetland Islands in less then 2 Hours.

...while kicking out a load of carbon as it does.

The future of aviation has to involve electricity and hydrogen, I'd say.

 

[Butts]

...while kicking out a load of carbon as it does.

The future of aviation has to involve electricity and hydrogen, I'd say.

That's possibly decades down the line !!

 

[najaB]

Surely The Embraer should represent the future of Long Distance Travel in the UK ?

No! Domestic flying should be the exception not the rule. There is very rarely an actual need* for people or goods to get from one end of the country to the other in less time than would be possible with high-speed rail.

*Note: Need and desire are not the same thing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No! Domestic flying should be the exception not the rule. There is very rarely an actual need* for people or goods to get from one end of the country to the other in less time than would be possible with high-speed rail.

*Note: Need and desire are not the same thing.

For carbon reasons, primarily. If a carbon-neutral method of flying was to be invented*, then why not? Aviation is not going away.

* i.e. battery or hydrogen produced using electricity, once the grid is less gas-dependent.

 

[najaB]

For carbon reasons, primarily. If a carbon-neutral method of flying was to be invented*, then why not? Aviation is not going away.

Indeed, it is not. However slowing down the pace of life generally has benefits beside being less energy intensive. Many people's mental health and quality of life could be significantly improved by removing the stress of the modern fast-paced life.

As a personal example, I used to work quite regularly in Belfast doing a Monday to Friday and back home for the weekend. The options were to either fly or get the ferry. Unless I had some specific reason that I needed to be home for part of the Sunday I would always get the ferry out and fly back. Even though the journey by ferry took about three times longer, it was always the less stressful of the two.

 

[Butts]

No! Domestic flying should be the exception not the rule. There is very rarely an actual need* for people or goods to get from one end of the country to the other in less time than would be possible with high-speed rail.

*Note: Need and desire are not the same thing.

So how would you define need and do you apply the same caveat to journeys from Scotland to Europe ?

How would you have travelled from London to Belfast ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, it is not. However slowing down the pace of life generally has benefits beside being less energy intensive. Many people's mental health and quality of life could be significantly improved by removing the stress of the modern fast-paced life.

As a personal example, I used to work quite regularly in Belfast doing a Monday to Friday and back home for the weekend. The options were to either fly or get the ferry. Unless I had some specific reason that I needed to be home for part of the Sunday I would always get the ferry out and fly back. Even though the journey by ferry took about three times longer, it was always the less stressful of the two.

I too have weekly commuted, and to be honest while 2 years of it was wearing (it had to end then, because that was the length of a short-term work permit in Switzerland at the time, and going past that involved complications with tax domicile and similar) I actually enjoyed it and miss it. So I'd not assume that it would impact everyone's mental health in the same way.

Like daily commuting, what really made it work for me was reducing it to 4 days a week with Fridays from home.

If people are happy to do that (I took my job in the full knowledge that is what it would involve) and the environmental issue can be solved, why not?

 

[najaB]

So how would you define need and do you apply the same caveat to journeys from Scotland to Europe ?

Depends on how far into Europe you're speaking. The fastest journey time from Edinburgh to Paris at present is hitting the 7h mark - which is too long. Post HS2 when the same journey can be done in a bit over 5h then there's a case that it should be done by rail. Anything over 5h then it makes sense to fly.

How would you have travelled from London to Belfast ?

I have done London to Belfast by ferry before, but for that I would probably fly. Mainly because there's a large body of water in the way and ferries are a lot slower than high speed rail. If Boris' tunnel to Belfast was to ever be built, that would probably tip things back in favour of rail.

If people are happy to do that (I took my job in the full knowledge that is what it would involve) and the environmental issue can be solved, why not?

I'm not saying that there should be a complete prohibition, just that it shouldn't be seen as a default position. The assumption that people can just "hop on a plane" results in craziness like one of my managers travelling from Dundee to Sydney to do job interviews!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not saying that there should be a complete prohibition, just that it shouldn't be seen as a default position. The assumption that people can just "hop on a plane" results in craziness like one of my managers travelling from Dundee to Sydney to do job interviews!

It's surprising businesses don't learn to avoid that due to the huge cost, to be honest. A hundred quid's worth of sleasyJet flights and a couple of nights in a cheap hotel are one thing, but all the way to Oz?!

 

[Butts]

It's surprising businesses don't learn to avoid that due to the huge cost, to be honest. A hundred quid's worth of sleasyJet flights and a couple of nights in a cheap hotel are one thing, but all the way to Oz?!

Sounds like an excuse for a "jolly" to me - I'm dead jealous.

 

[najaB]

It's surprising businesses don't learn to avoid that due to the huge cost, to be honest. A hundred quid's worth of sleasyJet flights and a couple of nights in a cheap hotel are one thing, but all the way to Oz?!

It doesn't make sense to me either, but throw magic words like "strategic programme" around and that's the kind of insanity that happens!

Sounds like an excuse for a "jolly" to me - I'm dead jealous.

The majority of his team are based in Manilla so he's actually tired of it. The pandemic was a bit of a blessing (other than he was in Sydney when things started kicking off!)

 

[Butts]

BA are still boarding by rows starting at the back whereas with Easyjet it's still a free for all with SB on first.

Anyone got any experience of any other Airlines in the current climate ?

 

[nlogax]

Anyone got any experience of any other Airlines in the current climate ?

There are other airlines? Oh..

 

[Darandio]

Some interesting news from over the pond.

United Adding Supersonic Speeds with New Agreement to Buy Aircraft from Boom Supersonic

First U.S. airline to sign commercial agreement with Boom SupersonicNew aircraft will cut travel times in half and operate on up to 100% sustainable aviation fuel

hub.united.com

United Adding Supersonic Speeds with New Agreement to Buy Aircraft from Boom Supersonic​

United Airlines today announced a commercial agreement with Denver-based aerospace company Boom Supersonic to add aircraft to its global fleet as well as a cooperative sustainability initiative – a move that facilitates a leap forward in returning supersonic speeds to aviation.

Under the terms of the agreement, United will purchase 15 of Boom's 'Overture' airliners, once Overture meets United's demanding safety, operating and sustainability requirements, with an option for an additional 35 aircraft. The companies will work together on meeting those requirements before delivery. Once operational, Overture is expected to be the first large commercial aircraft to be net-zero carbon from day one, optimized to run on 100% sustainable aviation fuel (SAF). It is slated to roll out in 2025, fly in 2026 and expected to carry passengers by 2029. United and Boom will also work together to accelerate production of greater supplies of SAF.

"United continues on its trajectory to build a more innovative, sustainable airline and today's advancements in technology are making it more viable for that to include supersonic planes. Boom's vision for the future of commercial aviation, combined with the industry's most robust route network in the world, will give business and leisure travelers access to a stellar flight experience," United CEO Scott Kirby said. "Our mission has always been about connecting people and now working with Boom, we'll be able to do that on an even greater scale."

Capable of flying at speeds of Mach 1.7 – twice the speed of today's fastest airliners – Overture can connect more than 500 destinations in nearly half the time. Among the many future potential routes for United are Newark to London in just three and a half hours, Newark to Frankfurt in four hours and San Francisco to Tokyo in just six hours. Overture will also be designed with features such as in-seat entertainment screens, ample personal space, and contactless technology. Working with Boom is another component of United's strategy to invest in innovative technologies that will build a more sustainable future of air travel.

"The world's first purchase agreement for net-zero carbon supersonic aircraft marks a significant step toward our mission to create a more accessible world," said Blake Scholl, Boom Supersonic founder and CEO. "United and Boom share a common purpose—to unite the world safely and sustainably. At speeds twice as fast, United passengers will experience all the advantages of life lived in person, from deeper, more productive business relationships to longer, more relaxing vacations to far-off destinations."

 

[TravelDream]

Some interesting news from over the pond.

Flying by 2026?!?

I'll eat my hat if it ever flies.

This appears to be on of those 'green' things where companies like to be seen doing something when they are actually doing nothing.

Greener planes are coming, but the next generation will use conventional technology like that aircraft of today.

 

[Butts]

Great trip over from BHD to LCY on BA this morning....

Embraer 190....

Seat 1A

Glenlivet Count .....3

There are other airlines? Oh..

I get the impression hardly anyone on here is taking to the skies at the moment - it's a great time to be out and about.

 

[nlogax]

Flying by 2026?!?

I'll eat my hat if it ever flies.

I think it'll fly, if not in 2026 then soon afterwards. There's more than enough dough in the business world to pay for this sort of top-tier transportation especially if it's seen to be green.

 

[Butts]

Had an almost flawless journey back tonight.

Took off from LCY at 5.20pm and back in my home in Falkirk by 7pm.

45 Minutes Flying Time, Air bridge, Bag on Belt rapido and traffic light from Edinburgh to Falkirk

Glenlivet Count - 2 "for Ron" as driving.

Seat 1A again.

 

[philosopher]

I have a couple of questions about the aviation industry at the moment:
First how are airlines managing to survive the pandemic? Airlines must have lost most of their revenue over the 18 months, yet other than FlyBe none seem to have gone bust!
Second will air fares post pandemic be more expensive to pay for the fallout from the pandemic?

 

[najaB]

First how are airlines managing to survive the pandemic? Airlines must have lost most of their revenue over the 18 months, yet other than FlyBe none seem to have gone bust!

A combination of cost cutting (accelerated retirement of less efficient aircraft, axing routes, deferring aircraft deliveries, layoffs, etc.), finance (new share/bond offerings and government cash) and money in the bank for those who had it (e.g. IAG had about £10B in the bank at the start of the pandemic).

Second will air fares post pandemic be more expensive to pay for the fallout from the pandemic?

On some routes, yes. But on most routes no as the airlines need to stimulate demand. That may change if, as some are predicting, there is consolidation in the industry. Fewer players normally means higher prices.