Aviation Discussion

[fowler9]

Perhaps they need yellow ends

Umm...

Nok Air 737 with yellow "beak"

Ouch. That hit every branch as it fell out of the ugly tree.

 

[ModernRailways]

Does anyone know what British Airways A380s are like in economy? I've got an option between BA in an A380 or a KLM 787. It's a roughly 12 hour flight.

 

[ld0595]

Does anyone know what British Airways A380s are like in economy? I've got an option between BA in an A380 or a KLM 787. It's a roughly 12 hour flight.

Take the A380! I've flown in both types of aircraft - albeit in an Emirates A380 and a BA 787. If it were my vote, the A380 would definitely win. The 3-3-3 seating on all the 787s is incredibly tight whereas the A380 has huge amounts of room. You can choose between 3-4-3 seating on the lower deck or 2-4-2 seating in the upper deck with BA's A380s. I believe the upper deck also has a storage bin next to the windows too.

In terms of actual service, both should be roughly the same in economy. BA have (rightfully) recieved a lot of flack in the past few months for cutting their economy service, but they appear to be undoing some of those changes recently. I haven't flown KLM long haul so I can't really comment on their service.

 

[atillathehunn]

A380, upper deck, window seat on BA. Extra little storage pod there which gives you more space. Wouldn't even think of touching KLM over that.

As Ido595 says, BA are starting to undo some of their more draconian changes recently, though I'm not sure on which routes. The food on KLM is crap. The food on BA actually wasn't horrendous, just in tiny, tiny quantities.

 

[ModernRailways]

Thanks both, I've gone with BA - small side note, but the price to book seats before check in is absolutely crazy (They're wanting £130 per flight (upper deck - £80 for lower deck), so I'd be looking at around £260 not including connecting flight. Crazy money for some seats).

I use KLM regularly - most flights I take involve them with a change at AMS (fantastic Airport, much better than LHR) - and their economy food/drink is usually fine by me. Plus they generally seem to be quite punctual in my experience.

 

[atillathehunn]

Thanks both, I've gone with BA - small side note, but the price to book seats before check in is absolutely crazy (They're wanting £130 per flight (upper deck - £80 for lower deck), so I'd be looking at around £260 not including connecting flight. Crazy money for some seats).

I use KLM regularly - most flights I take involve them with a change at AMS (fantastic Airport, much better than LHR) - and their economy food/drink is usually fine by me. Plus they generally seem to be quite punctual in my experience.

My boss likes them, I don't particularly and prefer to take another route if the price is sensible. I find transit at AMS a dream, but arriving there and checking in and going through security has become a nightmare.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yep, the ex-BMI Airbus A319/A320s feature the older seats and since they are being withdrawn, there is no need to refurbish them.

Out of curiosity I looked up G-DBCB last night and found it has had a repaint* only two months ago; would that indicate a change of plan and it'll be around for longer now?

*From Olympic Gold to standard BA livery.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Take the A380! I've flown in both types of aircraft - albeit in an Emirates A380 and a BA 787. If it were my vote, the A380 would definitely win. The 3-3-3 seating on all the 787s is incredibly tight whereas the A380 has huge amounts of room. You can choose between 3-4-3 seating on the lower deck or 2-4-2 seating in the upper deck with BA's A380s. I believe the upper deck also has a storage bin next to the windows too.

In terms of actual service, both should be roughly the same in economy. BA have (rightfully) recieved a lot of flack in the past few months for cutting their economy service, but they appear to be undoing some of those changes recently. I haven't flown KLM long haul so I can't really comment on their service.

I've flown economy with Emirates Airlines using an A380 to Dubai and back to Gatwick and it's great IMO. Nice and spacious, plane is very quiet too as well, great aircraft to fly on .

Cheers

Ben

 

[Clip]

I see Thanet council voted against the local plan and as such want to keep manston as an airport
https://www.supportmanstonairport.org/thanet-district-council-vote-publishing-draft-local-plan/

Tonight, Thanet District Council in the Extraordinary Council Meeting, voted against progressing the draft Local Plan to the next stage despite dire warnings of Government intervention and increased housing numbers. In all, 35 voted against and 20 to approve.

If it had been approved, the Plan would have been published with the change of the Manston Airport site to mixed-use classification and gone out for a six week publication for feedback. It would then have been submitted to the Planning Inspectorate for independent examination and they would also have received the representations made during the publication process.

It would seem clear that the overwhelming reason to reject the plan was the reclassification of the Manston Airport site from aviation only to mixed use.

I cantr ever see manston as a viable airport ever again myself but the people of thanet keep thinking it will bring thousands of jobs locally to the area for some reason

 

[atillathehunn]

I believe it's a lorry park at the moment through Operation Stack, or did that end?

 

[Clip]

I believe it's a lorry park at the moment through Operation Stack, or did that end?

it has never been used as one so far I do believe to the tune of around £5 million in payments to the owners

 

[Speedbird96]

Out of curiosity I looked up G-DBCB last night and found it has had a repaint* only two months ago; would that indicate a change of plan and it'll be around for longer now?

*From Olympic Gold to standard BA livery.

Checking the retirement schedule, G-DBCB is not earmarked for withdrawal this year or next year, however 3 of her sister ships G-DBCI/J/K are expected to be withdrawn within the next 12 months, although this is all subject to change.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Checking the retirement schedule, G-DBCB is not earmarked for withdrawal this year or next year, however 3 of her sister ships G-DBCI/J/K are expected to be withdrawn within the next 12 months, although this is all subject to change.

Looks like she'll be one of the last of those around, then?

Talking of long-standing fleet member, very pleasantly surprised to see on Saturday that Boeing 767 G-BNWA is still in service. What few if any current staff will be aware of is that this aircraft has a claim to fame in that it is the one used for the first Comet Hale-Bopp spotting flight on 29th March 1997 ( 1h32 duration, take off to touchdown ) which had a camera crew on board for the TV documentary "Airport" and the passengers included Dr Sir Patrick Moore and Dr Brian May.

Unusually for "Airport" the segment was shown as a single continuous part of the broadcast instead of being a couple of minutes here, then something else, then a couple more minutes... that's because the segment was shown as a tribute to the late Captain Douglas Ord for whom the Hale-Bopp flights were the last charters he organised before his untimely demise.

 

[Speedbird96]

Looks like she'll be one of the last of those around, then?

Talking of long-standing fleet member, very pleasantly surprised to see on Saturday that Boeing 767 G-BNWA is still in service. What few if any current staff will be aware of is that this aircraft has a claim to fame in that it is the one used for the first Comet Hale-Bopp spotting flight on 29th March 1997 ( 1h32 duration, take off to touchdown ) which had a camera crew on board for the TV documentary "Airport" and the passengers included Dr Sir Patrick Moore and Dr Brian May.

Unusually for "Airport" the segment was shown as a single continuous part of the broadcast instead of being a couple of minutes here, then something else, then a couple more minutes... that's because the segment was shown as a tribute to the late Captain Douglas Ord for whom the Hale-Bopp flights were the last charters he organised before his untimely demise.

Potentially, although with their new Airbus A320neos due to be delivered, I think British Airways will be looking at replacing their leased Airbus A319s first (which all the ex-BMI A319s are and some existing BA A319s). I predict either late-2019 or early-2020 for G-DBCB's withdrawal.

Had the pleasure of flying Boeing 767-300ER G-BNWB from Frankfurt to London Heathrow nearly 3 years ago and despite her age, she did feel as good as new... Plus the sound of those Rolls-Royce engines never gets old! I should have had G-BNWX but before take-off at Heathrow, developed an oil leak on the taxiway and was delayed for 2 hours at Frankfurt. Thankfully I made my connection at Terminal 5 back home.

Sadly, G-BNWA is due for withdrawal by July 2018 with the entire Boeing 767-300ER fleet gone by December 2018 after making way for the Airbus A321neos. Sad times...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Very unfortunate; I like the 767s because they give such a strong "punch" when on a standing start take off.

I've had:

G-BNWA that once.
G-BNWB twice.
G-BNWC twice.
G-BNWE once.
G-BNWL once.

Also had I-DEIL once... rotten luck had a rolling start take off on that one... dratted Alitalia!

 

[frodshamfella]

So I correctly identified the 747. Don't all congratulate me at once. Ha ha.

well done mate.

 

[berneyarms]

Rumours that BA are to wet lease some Aer Lingus A320s and crews on the Dublin-Heathrow and Heathrow-Hamburg routes for February and March 2018.


DUB-LHR-DUB BA0824/26/27/31
LHR-HAM-LHR BA0962/969

 

[Domh245]

Bombardier have won the trade dispute in the US

Bombardier has won a trade case in the United States, overturning a decision to impose damaging tariffs on imports of its C-Series aircraft.

The UK government had suspected that the Canadian aircraft manufacturer would lose. Unions had feared sales and UK jobs would be hit.

But in a surprise ruling, the US International Trade Commission (ITC) rejected a complaint brought by Boeing.

The ITC voted 4-0 in favour of Bombardier.

They ruled that there was no injury to US manufacturers, effectively forcing the US Commerce Department to reverse course on retaliatory countermeasures designed to protect Boeing.

Tariffs of 292% will not now be imposed on orders of C-Series planes by American carriers.

bout 50 companies in the UK supply Bombardier with parts for the C-Series.

One thousand jobs in Belfast, where the wings for the plane are made, depend on its success.

This was an unexpected outcome - the UK and Canadian governments had both forecast a home win for Boeing.

It is a decision which should lift any immediate threat to jobs at Bombardier in Belfast.

Around 50 smaller UK firms who supply parts for the C-Series will also breath a sigh of relief.

Instead of looking at potential lost US sales, Bombardier and its workforce have reason for fresh optimism.

A spokesperson for Bombardier said the ITC's decision was "a victory for innovation, competition and the rule of law."

"The C-Series is the most innovative and efficient new aircraft in a generation.," they said.

"Its development and production represent thousands of jobs in the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom."

A spokesperson for Boeing said it was "disappointed" by the ITC's decision and that it would "review the detailed conclusions when they are released".

Steve Turner, Unite assistant general secretary said it was "the right decision".

He said Bombardier workers in Northern Ireland and throughout the supply chain in UK "will be breathing a huge sigh of relief".

Business Secretary Greg Clark said it was "excellent news for the dedicated workforce in Northern Ireland and supply chain across the UK, who have a great future ahead".

"The decision by the International Trade Commission confirms what the UK and Canadian Governments working hand in hand has maintained from the outset, that this case is unjustified. We are pleased that the ITC have now recognised this," he said.

 

[Dentonian]

An article in the M'cr Evening News states the FCO estimates that 72% of over 55s are planning to travel abroad this year. Of those, exactly half have Pre-existing Medical Conditions. I calculate that equals something approaching 6 million people. Now, that obviously includes many flying out of the EHIC area and some for whom Expensive Insurance is not an issue. But on the flip side, there will be under 55s with P-EMC, and medical advances suggest he number of people in this position, practically able to travel will increase. And then there is the reciprocal arrangement for Europeans travelling to the UK.
With this in mind, how much damage would the loss of EHIC do to the British Airline and Tourist industries when the clocks go forward on 30th March 2019?

 

[theageofthetra]

An article in the M'cr Evening News states the FCO estimates that 72% of over 55s are planning to travel abroad this year. Of those, exactly half have Pre-existing Medical Conditions. I calculate that equals something approaching 6 million people. Now, that obviously includes many flying out of the EHIC area and some for whom Expensive Insurance is not an issue. But on the flip side, there will be under 55s with P-EMC, and medical advances suggest he number of people in this position, practically able to travel will increase. And then there is the reciprocal arrangement for Europeans travelling to the UK.
With this in mind, how much damage would the loss of EHIC do to the British Airline and Tourist industries when the clocks go forward on 30th March 2019?

Very little. It will however stop the massive levels of fraud involving the use of UK issued cards being used in Eastern Europe by relatives.

 

[atillathehunn]

I think with all due respect, unsubstantiated comments like this don't really have a place in the aviation forum.

As to the original question, I don't think it will have much of an impact. We have yet to see the results of the deal, and in reality some kind of deal will be hashed out in the same way people do when they travel anywhere.

 

[Dentonian]

Very little. It will however stop the massive levels of fraud involving the use of UK issued cards being used in Eastern Europe by relatives.

With all due respect, this sounds like a political retort, rather than an economic (or indeed social) analysis of my question. My point being that up to 10% of the UK population could find travelling to ex-EHIC countries, considerably more expensive from Spring 2019, and thus reduce or stop travelling completely.

 

[Dentonian]

I think with all due respect, unsubstantiated comments like this don't really have a place in the aviation forum.

As to the original question, I don't think it will have much of an impact. We have yet to see the results of the deal, and in reality some kind of deal will be hashed out in the same way people do when they travel anywhere.

That's unfortunate timing (). The question would be what kind of deal (and with how much warning)? Taking my personal circumstances and based on breaks of 3 nights or less without hold luggage or valuables; I am currently paying between £40 & £65 insurance in "EHIC-land". Like for like comparisons I've made are £216 for Switzerland and £951 for the USA - not that I would go all that way just for three nights.

 

[atillathehunn]

I don't know how it would work, and I would think this is the kind of detail they would release in the next year. I would imagine that, given the numbers of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU some kind of deal will be reached in the same way that Norway et al are involved in the present deal.

I don't know how it works with things like SAGA (for the old, not necessarily the infirm) but they I'm sure have some kind of insurance pooling deal that makes it possible for them to offer holidays to their core demographic.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

With all due respect, this sounds like a political retort, rather than an economic (or indeed social) analysis of my question. My point being that up to 10% of the UK population could find travelling to ex-EHIC countries, considerably more expensive from Spring 2019, and thus reduce or stop travelling completely.

Like it or not that would be seen by many Brexiteers as a highly desirable outcome!

That's unfortunate timing (lol). The question would be what kind of deal (and with how much warning)? Taking my personal circumstances and based on breaks of 3 nights or less without hold luggage or valuables; I am currently paying between £40 & £65 insurance in "EHIC-land". Like for like comparisons I've made are £216 for Switzerland and £951 for the USA - not that I would go all that way just for three nights.

I have no idea what your PEMC is and I certainly don't expect you to disclose any details on this forum. But I will note that a quick look on MoneySavingExpert suggests that for those without a PEMC annual worldwide cover could be available for somewhat less than £50! OFC it always pays to shop around but it is nearly always worthwhile obtaining annual cover if there is any chance of you undertaking more than one trip in the next 12 months. In short for the large majority of people the cost of suitable cover is quite affordable. That you find yourself part of the corresponding minority is unfortunate but I don't see what you expect anyone to do about it.

 

[Dentonian]

Like it or not that would be seen by many Brexiteers as a highly desirable outcome!



I have no idea what your PEMC is and I certainly don't expect you to disclose any details on this forum. But I will note that a quick look on MoneySavingExpert suggests that for those without a PEMC annual worldwide cover could be available for somewhat less than £50! OFC it always pays to shop around but it is nearly always worthwhile obtaining annual cover if there is any chance of you undertaking more than one trip in the next 12 months. In short for the large majority of people the cost of suitable cover is quite affordable. That you find yourself part of the corresponding minority is unfortunate but I don't see what you expect anyone to do about it.

I would thank you for both reading my original post in detail (eg. potential market of 6 million people - hardly an insignificant minority) and for your sensitivity and tolerance of those of us who don't confirm to the Darwinean norm. However, you fail on all counts, so I won't waste my breath.

FTR, I have three PEMCs; two as a direct result of the treatment for the first one.

 

[Dentonian]

I don't know how it would work, and I would think this is the kind of detail they would release in the next year. I would imagine that, given the numbers of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU some kind of deal will be reached in the same way that Norway et al are involved in the present deal.

I don't know how it works with things like SAGA (for the old, not necessarily the infirm) but they I'm sure have some kind of insurance pooling deal that makes it possible for them to offer holidays to their core demographic.

"core demographic" is a phrase that makes me shudder, but I have just looked at a like for like scenario for Norway and found a quote just under £76 for four nights, so probably only about 25% more than "EHIC" countries. Obviously, in practice I would shop around, so let's hope the Insurance industry realises the size of the market that could be left behind.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I would thank you for both reading my original post in detail (eg. potential market of 6 million people - hardly an insignificant minority) and for your sensitivity and tolerance of those of us who don't confirm to the Darwinean norm. However, you fail on all counts, so I won't waste my breath.

Your original post was essentially bemoaning the likelihood of post-Brexit arrangements being less favourable than current ones. The fact that my response failed to offer comforting words may, in your view, be lacking in sensitivity but that's hardly the prime purpose of this forum. As for the maths given a UK population of 63 million your number of 6 million is clearly a minority. To suggest that this minority should somehow be shielded from the realities of commercial insurance seems to me to be asking for a pretty hefty dose of positive discrimination. Ultimately you need to follow the best medical advice of your GP/specialist(s) when weighing up the practicalities, both medical and financial, of future foreign travel even if that may mean curtailing your travels. That would be regrettable but as a Remainer myself I am not going to defend the situation but equally I am not going to keep harping on about the potential injustice of it. In short it would be much less stressful, for all of us, to make the best of it; there seems little possibility of turning back the clock on this!

 

[Crawley Ben]

WestJet are to operate the new Boeing 737 max aircraft later this year between Gatwick & Halifax (Nova Scotia, Canada).

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/276892/westjet-expands-737-max-8-network-in-s18/

In other news, Primera Air have cancelled planned launch of flights between Birmingham and Boston according to the link below. No new start date available at the current time.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/3...cels-birmingham-boston-late-june-2018-launch/

Cheers

Ben

 

[atillathehunn]

I would thank you for both reading my original post in detail (eg. potential market of 6 million people - hardly an insignificant minority) and for your sensitivity and tolerance of those of us who don't confirm to the Darwinean norm. However, you fail on all counts, so I won't waste my breath.

FTR, I have three PEMCs; two as a direct result of the treatment for the first one.

I don't think that my reply warranted to the reply "I won't waste my breathe". I think that's quite unfair.

I do not know what the post-Brexit relationship will be like. As a Brit living in the EU (though privately insured as a requirement of the country I live in) I hope for a favourable outcome. I never implied in anyway that you don't confirm to a Darwinean norm, and not sure I ever would. However, my point was that the older population which you cited are statistically more likely to have a PEMC, and yet travel the world with big companies such as SAGA.

But, if you want a reply which will not waste your breathe. I think we need to examine the self selection problem we have when looking at the propensity of the older population to travel. I don't think there is an exogenous factor which means they are more likely to travel as age increases. I think they are more likely to travel because they have more money and more free time. I believe that the extra money for an insurance package that covers for the loss of EU health rights (we don't know this will happen. Cf: Norway, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Iceland). Let's also imagine that as they are a bit older their risk aversion is a little lower, which means they wouldn't gamble their last £1 on a holiday and therefore the marginal propensity to go on holiday is not seeing a significant decrease with a small increase in holiday price.

I would also suggest that the destinations they frequent are limited, and won't damage the British aviation industry to a huge degree. Business and inelastic travel patterns pay for the travel industry with higher prices.