Aviation Discussion

[FQTV]

on a military note, for 2 days, we have had a 70 year old Hawker Hunter fly low level over our house, doing about 4 or 5 loops then going back down the coast to Leeming, nicer than the usual going into Newcastle Airport

Thank you for mentioning this - there was a right old racket the other day, but it was cloudy and FlightRadar could only tell me that whatever it was, was at 2000ft and had taken off from Leeming. I noticed that it descended to about 1500ft and that a couple of the Cobham Aviation aircraft from Teesside were off the coast, so I assumed that it was doing intercept training. Mystery solved!

 

[Swanny200]

Thank you for mentioning this - there was a right old racket the other day, but it was cloudy and FlightRadar could only tell me that whatever it was, was at 2000ft and had taken off from Leeming. I noticed that it descended to about 1500ft and that a couple of the Cobham Aviation aircraft from Teesside were off the coast, so I assumed that it was doing intercept training. Mystery solved!

Yes today, two of the Warthog designated Falcons from Cobham were out and about that way on loops with the Hunter and now one of the Tasman designated Falcons has taken it's place and the Nighthawk designated Cobham Diamond 42's are doing loops in what I assume is an aerial surveillance role. Had a Hawk come over earlier too from Leeming which I assume could have been another Aggressor.

Monday was a different story, the Hunter was over about 3 times over the course of the day.

 

[Mills444]

Blimey, are the hunters still flying? What are they doing?

 

[Swanny200]

Blimey, are the hunters still flying? What are they doing?

Hawker Hunter Aviation ltd have 2 of them, both active and still flying, the one that has been over our way the last few days was sent to Embraer in Brazil as a test plane, they use them for training and aggressor work, reading into it, Cobham aviation use their Falcons and utilize the likes of the Hunters and the Hawks as bandits for the Eurofighters to train for non lethal (obviously) simulation.

The Falcon 20's that Cobham possess, have a full suite of equipment that it can mimic a lot of the recent Russian Jets in terms of jamming and Electronic countermeasures, I would assume that the Hawks and Hunters are used as an asset that the Falcons would be "protecting". Nice to see them still flying and at low level too. To be fair, how many other planes like that are still airworthy and capable of side by side seat flying as a "fast" jet apart from the odd Jet Provost.

 

[Butts]

Hawker Hunter Aviation ltd have 2 of them, both active and still flying, the one that has been over our way the last few days was sent to Embraer in Brazil as a test plane, they use them for training and aggressor work, reading into it, Cobham aviation use their Falcons and utilize the likes of the Hunters and the Hawks as bandits for the Eurofighters to train for non lethal (obviously) simulation.

The Falcon 20's that Cobham possess, have a full suite of equipment that it can mimic a lot of the recent Russian Jets in terms of jamming and Electronic countermeasures, I would assume that the Hawks and Hunters are used as an asset that the Falcons would be "protecting". Nice to see them still flying and at low level too. To be fair, how many other planes like that are still airworthy and capable of side by side seat flying as a "fast" jet apart from the odd Jet Provost.

Any Lightnings still about ?

 

[YorkshireBear]

If you're tall don't bother - I flew with them once and had to recline the seat to fit.

I'm 6ft 1 and always coped fine. I love using them for the quick hop from Manchester to Dusseldorf where I have always found their fares to be very good value.

 

[Swanny200]

Any Lightnings still about ?

Flying in this country, unfortunately not, I think XR724 is ground run capable at Binbrook, and there are a couple of F6's taxiable at Bruntingthorpe, in terms of flying abroad, there is one which was 1 of 2 (The other crashed) in South Africa and a pretty decent example in the US that they are restoring to fly hopefully.

Static examples, well I hope they have fixed the one at Elvington as it was in a state a couple of years ago when I last saw it, the likes of Duxford and even the North East Air Museum in Sunderland have static examples, think there are about 10 or so dotted about.

However if you want to get up close with one and dare I say it, if they allow it now, as even before COVID, they were trying to finish it, actually attempt to squeeze in the cockpit (said not because of anyone's size, but the fact that the cockpit is tiny) there is a cockpit museum in Wiltshire, the only place where I think you can sit in the cockpit of a Tornado, numerous Jaguars, a Harrier and aforementioned Lightning.

It is a shame they didn't get more flying though as I would have loved to have seen Lightnings on the airshow scene over here.

 

[Crawley Ben]

The gent who founded Norwegian Airlines all those years ago, has got himself involved with another new start up airline that intends to offer low cost long haul flights using 787 Dreamliners (Mentioned elsewhere that flights will be based/operated from Gatwick to various points in the USA etc.

Could it possibly work this time around given there’s likely to be a huge demand for travel when travel finally starts to recover.

Norwegian's Founder Is Back With A New 787 Transatlantic LCC

simpleflying.com

Bjørn Kjos, the well-known founder of Norwegian, has joined forces with investor Bjørn Tore Larsen to launch Norse Atlantic Airways, a low-cost long-haul airline.

The new venture will look, at least on paper, very similar to the long-haul arm of Norwegian’s business. It will fly Boeing 787 Dreamliners from Europe to the Americas, although details are still sketchy on which routes it will target first.

Reports suggest the airline could be ready to fly before the end of the year.

Ben

 

[najaB]

Could it possibly work this time around given there’s likely to be a huge demand for travel when travel finally starts to recover.

Low cost long haul is extremely difficult to make work. LCCs make money by moving a lot of bodies at a low profit margin, which means each plane and crew might make six to eight legs a day.

Anything over four hours means you're going to struggle to get more than one turn per crew per day which puts your costs *way* up.

That said, they might get it to work by focusing on cargo routes to fill the belly and treating passengers as extra, self-loading cargo.

 

[nlogax]

The gent who founded Norwegian Airlines all those years ago, has got himself involved with another new start up airline that intends to offer low cost long haul flights using 787 Dreamliners (Mentioned elsewhere that flights will be based/operated from Gatwick to various points in the USA etc.

Could it possibly work this time around given there’s likely to be a huge demand for travel when travel finally starts to recover.

Norwegian's Founder Is Back With A New 787 Transatlantic LCC

simpleflying.com

Ben

Oh oh, the ghost of Freddie Laker is at it again.

 

[Mills444]

Oh oh, the ghost of Freddie Laker is at it again.

Yep, Probably won't work though. Unless they create demand instead of try and pinch it.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Low cost long haul is extremely difficult to make work. LCCs make money by moving a lot of bodies at a low profit margin, which means each plane and crew might make six to eight legs a day.

Anything over four hours means you're going to struggle to get more than one turn per crew per day which puts your costs *way* up.

And to the USA you are then into hotels, overnight stays and expenses etc to get the mandated and necessary rest. As you say, costs go up when the turns are over 4 hours. Ryanair LPL-NOC is a different kettle of fish.

 

[Aictos]

Just pondering a trip to Gibraltar as never been and was wondering if anyone had any tips on when the best time was to visit eg when it's not expensive so outside the peak season and any flights they recommend.

I'm open to all airlines except Ryanair as I won't entertain the thought of using them, not even sure if they serve the place?

Is it possible to do a day trip there and back?

 

[Crawley Ben]

Just pondering a trip to Gibraltar as never been and was wondering if anyone had any tips on when the best time was to visit eg when it's not expensive so outside the peak season and any flights they recommend.

I'm open to all airlines except Ryanair as I won't entertain the thought of using them, not even sure if they serve the place?

Is it possible to do a day trip there and back?

Not been myself, but I know EasyJet fly there from Gatwick, and I believe BA operate there from Heathrow (you would need to double the check the latter)

Cheers

Ben

 

[najaB]

I believe BA operate there from Heathrow

They certainly did pre-Covid, I assume that they still do.

 

[TravelDream]

Just pondering a trip to Gibraltar as never been and was wondering if anyone had any tips on when the best time was to visit eg when it's not expensive so outside the peak season and any flights they recommend.

I'm open to all airlines except Ryanair as I won't entertain the thought of using them, not even sure if they serve the place?

Is it possible to do a day trip there and back?

I've only visited once on a daytrip from up the coast. It's an alright place. The best time to visit in terms of weather and price is just before or just after the peak season - June or September. If you don't mind the possibility of cool weather or rain, any time in the winter is cheaper than summer.

There are quite a few flights there. BA fly from Heathrow, easyjet from Gatwick, Bristol, Edinburgh and Manchester, Eastern from Birmingham and Southampton and Wizz from Luton.
No idea why you wouldn't fly Ryanair. They're a brilliant airline. However, they don't fly to Gib.

Doubt you'd be able to do a daytrip, though one night would be doable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ryanair are acceptable and cheap. I don't see why anyone would call them "brilliant". They are very much the Travelodge of the sky - worth putting up with for the fare and sometimes when their obscure airport is near where you want to go.

I would along similar lines put easyJet and probably Jet2 in as the Premier Inn by comparison, a bit more expensive but a fair whack better.

 

[Bald Rick]

No idea why you wouldn't fly Ryanair. They're a brilliant airline. However, they don't fly to Gib.

“Experiences may vary”

(and they don’t fly to Gib. As you say!)

Is it possible to do a day trip there and back?

You could do a daytrip with Easyjet from Gatwick. On some days - typically Wed / Thur / Fri / Sun they have a flight out around 0700 (arriving 1100) and a return around 2105 (arriving 2255). Allowing for getting to/from the airport, plus security etc on the way back this gives you 8 hours on the rock to explore. Long day of course, but definitely doable.

Cheaper earlier in the week, you’d be looking at around £100 return booking now for September (good time to go).

 

[Aictos]

I've only visited once on a daytrip from up the coast. It's an alright place. The best time to visit in terms of weather and price is just before or just after the peak season - June or September. If you don't mind the possibility of cool weather or rain, any time in the winter is cheaper than summer.

There are quite a few flights there. BA fly from Heathrow, easyjet from Gatwick, Bristol, Edinburgh and Manchester, Eastern from Birmingham and Southampton and Wizz from Luton.
No idea why you wouldn't fly Ryanair. They're a brilliant airline. However, they don't fly to Gib.

Doubt you'd be able to do a daytrip, though one night would be doable.

I had a bad experience with Ryanair a few years ago which put me off using them for life, I wouldn't also call them a brilliant airline either.

Will have a look at Birmingham as I've never flown from there before nor have I used Eastern before, just want to see if it's possible to do a @Butts type out and back trip.

Ryanair are acceptable and cheap. I don't see why anyone would call them "brilliant". They are very much the Travelodge of the sky - worth putting up with for the fare and sometimes when their obscure airport is near where you want to go.

I would along similar lines put easyJet and probably Jet2 in as the Premier Inn by comparison, a bit more expensive but a fair whack better.

I wouldn't class Ryanair as the Travelodge of the sky as that's being way too generous describing them, now if you had called them the Easyhotel of the sky then I would be in agreement with you!

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Ryanair are acceptable and cheap. I don't see why anyone would call them "brilliant". They are very much the Travelodge of the sky - worth putting up with for the fare and sometimes when their obscure airport is near where you want to go.

I would along similar lines put easyJet and probably Jet2 in as the Premier Inn by comparison, a bit more expensive but a fair whack better.

Absolutely spot on comparison.

 

[Butts]

Just pondering a trip to Gibraltar as never been and was wondering if anyone had any tips on when the best time was to visit eg when it's not expensive so outside the peak season and any flights they recommend.

I'm open to all airlines except Ryanair as I won't entertain the thought of using them, not even sure if they serve the place?

Is it possible to do a day trip there and back?

Great place to visit, I was supposed to go in January until lockdown struck.

It was one of the last places still open to UK travellers until they restricted entry to Residents only in December.

Vaccinations are steaming ahead there so it will probably be one of the first places to open up.

Great view of Aircraft landing from the main road which forms part of the runway (they do close it like a plane level crossing)

Cheap booze and fags and interesting historical and cultural places to visit.

 

[Bald Rick]

Cheap booze and fags and interesting historical and cultural places to visit.

Which of those was the prime attraction for you, Sir?

 

[TravelDream]

Have to disagree with people above. Ryanair are brilliant. They have opened up Europe like no other airline has before or since, they offer some incredibly cheap fares and the service is fine.

I had a bad experience with Ryanair a few years ago which put me off using them for life, I wouldn't also call them a brilliant airline either.

Will have a look at Birmingham as I've never flown from there before nor have I used Eastern before, just want to see if it's possible to do a @Butts type out and back trip.

What was the bad experience and was it something specific to Ryanair? Not that I want to accuse you of it, but I know people who say they'll never fly X again because the flight was delayed or was turbulent. In reality, every airline suffers from things like that.

Eastern would be pricey. Wizz would probably be cheapest, but they would probably have you running back into Ryanair's arms.

 

[Iskra]

I won't use Ryanair again because of their scandalous treatment of their passengers (and their cash) during the pandemic. I had bookings with Ryanair, Easyjet (multiple) and Jet 2 last year. Ryanair still have my money from flights from last spring, Jet2 and Easyjet refunded me instantly with no issues, so they will get my custom in future.

I've relied on them for years as the only decent flight to Lamezia Terme, Italy to get to my holiday home, which leaves me an hour drive on the Italian side. I barely tolerated them to fly to Italy every year as 2.5 hours on their flights as the incessant announcements do my head in and the planes are always dirty. In future I will fly to Naples and get the train from there instead, which is longer but more enjoyable. However, I did previously find them acceptable to fly to Dublin (very short flight), and Kiev- strangely it didn't feel like a Ryanair flight and they didn't make constant announcements. I don't know if it's just Stansted airport or if they treat their Italian destinations differently or something but their flights to Italy are dirty, noisy, late, uncivilised and unnecessarily stressful.

 

[Bald Rick]

Have to disagree with people above. Ryanair are brilliant. They have opened up Europe like no other airline has before or since, they offer some incredibly cheap fares and the service is fine.

In my experience, not brilliant at all, and I won’t fly with them again.

What was the bad experience and was it something specific to Ryanair?

I’ve flown with them 3 times, and tried to another twice. They have let me and my family down every time, and in every case it was their own doing - variously poor customer service, ridiculous interpretation / application of their own rules, a complete cock up of their booking system, slow refunds, etc. As Fleming wrote - once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, the third is enemy action. I gave them another two chances on top, and still they screwed up. That can not be coincidence.

As a result I fly other airlines - usually Easyjet, who have always been great.

 

[najaB]

Have to disagree with people above. Ryanair are brilliant. They have opened up Europe like no other airline has before or since, they offer some incredibly cheap fares and the service is fine.

Their service is fine in that most of the time they get you where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there.

But when things go wrong, boy can they mess you around like the best of them.

 

[Aictos]

Have to disagree with people above. Ryanair are brilliant. They have opened up Europe like no other airline has before or since, they offer some incredibly cheap fares and the service is fine.




What was the bad experience and was it something specific to Ryanair? Not that I want to accuse you of it, but I know people who say they'll never fly X again because the flight was delayed or was turbulent. In reality, every airline suffers from things like that.

Eastern would be pricey. Wizz would probably be cheapest, but they would probably have you running back into Ryanair's arms.

As @Bald Rick stated above, it was a combination of variously poor customer service, ridiculous interpretation / application of their own rules but also the onboard trumpet announcing another on time arrival which really is tacky!

Cheap booze and fags and interesting historical and cultural places to visit.

That's why I'm looking at going there

 

[Bletchleyite]

What was the bad experience and was it something specific to Ryanair? Not that I want to accuse you of it, but I know people who say they'll never fly X again because the flight was delayed or was turbulent. In reality, every airline suffers from things like that.

In a corporate sense they treat passengers like dirt, by e.g. having fees and policies deliberately designed to catch you out.

Wizz would probably be cheapest, but they would probably have you running back into Ryanair's arms.

I certainly agree that Wizz are utter and complete dross and I'd always choose Ryanair over them. Ryanair, pink and purple and worse. Miserable airline with miserable crews, and the worst legroom I've experienced other than Eurowings.

As a result I fly other airlines - usually Easyjet, who have always been great.

I definitely find Sleasy better though I fear (in terms of sneaky charges etc) they may have lost their way after Carolyn McCall left. I've met her in person, and was properly impressed when, when I called her and her entourage out for pushing in the speedy boarding queue at Geneva (not knowing who she was at that point), she insisted they go to the back (much to the displeasure of her entourage) - but not before having a fairly in-depth discussion with me and a few other then-regulars on the 2062 GVA-LTN about the new allocated seating policy, which did result in a few changes to it. On the aircraft she got the bin bag and mucked in with the cleaning. Very, very impressed indeed.

 

[Aictos]

In a corporate sense they treat passengers like dirt, by e.g. having fees and policies deliberately designed to catch you out.



I certainly agree that Wizz are utter and complete dross and I'd always choose Ryanair over them. Ryanair, pink and purple and worse. Miserable airline with miserable crews, and the worst legroom I've experienced other than Eurowings.



I definitely find Sleasy better though I fear (in terms of sneaky charges etc) they may have lost their way after Carolyn McCall left. I've met her in person, and was properly impressed when, when I called her and her entourage out for pushing in the speedy boarding queue at Geneva (not knowing who she was at that point), she insisted they go to the back (much to the displeasure of her entourage) - but not before having a fairly in-depth discussion with me and a few other then-regulars on the 2062 GVA-LTN about the new allocated seating policy, which did result in a few changes to it. On the aircraft she got the bin bag and mucked in with the cleaning. Very, very impressed indeed.

I've flown Wizz Air recently as in the last 6 months and your view is nothing at all like what I've experienced, in fact I say it's Ryanair that are utter and complete dross using your own description in fact I rather go wing walking or bungi jumping then spend any of my time and money on Ryanair, the fact that I would never go Bungi jumping says it all about how bad Ryanair are.

The best airline that I've used recently hands down is KLM CityHopper but you pay for the premium.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The best airline that I've used recently hands down is KLM CityHopper but you pay for the premium.

I have found in the past that by flying the national airline of where you're going you will generally do OK, if paying a bit more. KLM is an interesting one, though, as the Dutch are all tall but the legroom is awful!