Ban on alcohol on Scotrail between 9PM and 10AM

[Scotrail84]

I wonder if it will push people onto EC/XC services, where drink will still be allowed - therefore moving the problem onto another TOC?

There are too few of these trains for the above 2 tocs and the last ones are too early anyway. The only service that might benefit is the 20:30 EC Aberdeen service which you will be allowed to bevy all the way to Aberdeen where as scotrails Aberdeen service at 21:40 from Edinburgh will be a dry train.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm guessing Scotrail hasn't found a lot of new money somewhere to pay for extra staff to enforce this ?

If they haven't, I fear that enforcing silly bans might prove to be an unwelcome distraction for the BTP and other staff from more important business.

 

[Scotrail84]

I'm guessing Scotrail hasn't found a lot of new money somewhere to pay for extra staff to enforce this ?

If they haven't, I fear that enforcing silly bans might prove to be an unwelcome distraction for the BTP and other staff from more important business.

Scotrail are looking to save money not spend it. Hence the strong possibility of doo after egip is finished.

 

[yorksrob]

Scotrail are looking to save money not spend it. Hence the strong possibility of doo after egip is finished.

So in reality, the only people likely to be troubled by this ban are the sort of people with a natural inclination towards obeying the rules in the first place.

Yep. That sounds like modern life alright.

 

[Failed Unit]

The 23:30 ex?? Barriers open at 11pm at haymarket. If the scotrail want patrols, revenue etc done on 6 cars then they need to put 2 guards on them.

Waverley.

 

[scotsman]

No train in Scotland have trollies after 2000 so on train sales won't be a problem. Edinburgh and Glasgow have pubs in the station however .

Not true, I've seen trolleys well after then on the HML coming south

 

[Scotrail84]

Not true, I've seen trolleys well after then on the HML coming south

Correct also the WHL arrival into qst at about 21:30 has 2 trolleys on it iirc

 

[ayrshire_voyager]

Classic neo prohibition from our totalitarian government. I feel for Scotrail staff who will be putting themselves at risk to try and enforce this, it is however unenforceable.

There is a particularly phenonmen in the west coast of Scotland when the sun comes out. Hordes of knuckledragging , benefit scrounging morons from Glasgow board trains bound for the Ayrshire coast. The drinking starts early, as does the violence (man stabbed on a train last month). The same morons get trains back after 9 laden with drink, it is quite disgusting. Will the pleasant wee women I see on that Ayr train be empowered enough to tell a ned out his face on cheap cider and valium that he is to get off the train ?

 

[170401]

Although i am not one for drinking alcohol on the train, if the Scottish Goverment intend to pass a law to ban people that are drunk from boarding a train, this could cause problems.

No new laws need to be passed. This is all being done under current legislation IE railway byelws. byelaw 4 states:

#4. Intoxication and possession of intoxicating liquor
(1) No person shall enter or remain on the railway where such person is unfit to enter or remain on the railway as a result of being in a state of intoxication.
(2) Where reasonable notice is, or has been, given prohibiting intoxicating liquor on any train service, no person shall have any intoxicating liquor with him on it, or attempt to enter such a train with intoxicating liquor with him.
(3) Where an authorised person reasonably believes that any person is unfit to enter or remain on the railway, or has with him intoxicating liquor contrary to Byelaw 4(2), an authorised person may:
(i) require him to leave the railway; and
(ii) prevent him entering or remaining on the railway until an authorised person is satisfied that he has no intoxicating liquor with him and/or is no longer in an unfit condition.


http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/railway-byelaws/railway-byelaws.pdf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The comments from Ch Supt Ellie Bird seem to imply that BTP in Scotland want to ban alcohol consumption on trains completely.

I believe recent internal staff surveys have also shown that a vast majority of frontline Scotrail staff also want a complete ban on alcohol consumption.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Scotrail are looking to save money not spend it. Hence the strong possibility of doo after egip is finished.

Strong possibility? The entire project has been designed around DOO from the word go, right down to the proposed timetable! Sadly it appears the unions are going to miss the boat on this again just like they did with Airdrie - Bathgate!

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Anyone have information on how this went last night?
I haven't come across any stories in the press yet.

 

[bAzTNM]

Well, I saw two drug addicts get onto a train today. Both absolutely blootered out their skull. Big ticket examiner didn't say anything. Quite right. It's the police's job to get the booze off the rowdies. Nobody wants a knife in the throat for what the TE's get paid.

 

[Squaddie]

Well, I saw two drug addicts get onto a train today.

How do you know they were drug addicts?

 

[bAzTNM]

Gaunt faces, very nasal voices, looked like they hadn't washed in days. Glasgow is full of them.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I'm doing EDB - INV tomoz on the 09:36. Last time i used this one a fare number of hair of the dogs/lets start early boozy drinks were consumed and I wonder if to avoid bother the trolley woant start its rounds til we are into Fife? I'll be particularly interested, seeing as its been hot today and theres been a number of events including Madonna at Muryfield to see how tonight went.

 

[yorksrob]

Well, I hope that this initiative fails and dies - hopefully to stop them trying it out down here.

We've got laws to deal with roudies. Let's enforce them.

 

[marks87]

Well, I hope that this initiative fails and dies - hopefully to stop them trying it out down here.

We've got laws to deal with roudies. Let's enforce them.

Exactly. This policy is like Blackstone's Formulation.

What harm is being done by someone who wants one wee drink on their way home, whether that be to unwind after a long shift at work, or to celebrate their team winning at football?

It's like the minimum pricing policy, which will bump up the price of certain whiskies, while failing to hit those it's targeted at --- they'll just sacrifice essentials (i.e. food) to pay for their Buckfast or White Lightning...

 

[yorksrob]

Exactly. This policy is like Blackstone's Formulation.

What harm is being done by someone who wants one wee drink on their way home, whether that be to unwind after a long shift at work, or to celebrate their team winning at football?

It's like the minimum pricing policy, which will bump up the price of certain whiskies, while failing to hit those it's targeted at --- they'll just sacrifice essentials (i.e. food) to pay for their Buckfast or White Lightning...

Exactly. We already have laws against troublemakers. Let's enforce these rather than penalising people going about their business.

 

[Blindtraveler]

here here

 

[Greenback]

Exactly. This policy is like Blackstone's Formulation.

What harm is being done by someone who wants one wee drink on their way home, whether that be to unwind after a long shift at work, or to celebrate their team winning at football?

It's like the minimum pricing policy, which will bump up the price of certain whiskies, while failing to hit those it's targeted at --- they'll just sacrifice essentials (i.e. food) to pay for their Buckfast or White Lightning...

Exactly. We already have laws against troublemakers. Let's enforce these rather than penalising people going about their business.

here here

I have to agree. This is a policy which is largely unenforceable, risks exacerbating situations where it is enforced, and an unfiar penalty on the majority of well behaved citizens.

 

[michael769]

Anyone have information on how this went last night?
I haven't come across any stories in the press yet.

Police were called upon to deal with the following incidents on Friday night:

Two persons were refused entry to trains due to being unfit to travel as a result of excessive alcohol consumption, the police attended to ensure the individuals received appropriate medical care. There were also 2 arrests on the network which were not alcohol related. (EDIT: At least not related to the enforcement of the ban!)

No word on Saturday yet.

 

[reb0118]

It's like the minimum pricing policy...............which will bump up the price of certain whiskies.

I have a feeling that all decent whisky would be well above the minimum pricing threshold. As a social drinker - who likes to do his drinking in the pub - I am tentatively in favour of minimum pricing system. Our pubs, & especially the independent community pubs, are closing at an alarming rate. One reason for this, & it's not the only reason I'll grant you, is the big supermarkets loss leading with bulk alcohol sales.

With regard to the ban of alcohol on trains it is my view that it is not what people are drinking on the train that is the problem but what they have had beforehand - & in a lot of scenarios folk get tanked up at home on cheap supermarket booze prior to heading out of an evening.

Only time will tell if this ban will work.

 

[clc]

No arrests on the first night of rail drink ban

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on...n-the-first-night-of-rail-drink-ban-1-2425749

 

[SS4]

I wonder what happens if one were to open a can at 20:59?

 

[clc]

I have a feeling that all decent whisky would be well above the minimum pricing threshold. As a social drinker - who likes to do his drinking in the pub - I am tentatively in favour of minimum pricing system. Our pubs, & especially the independent community pubs, are closing at an alarming rate. One reason for this, & it's not the only reason I'll grant you, is the big supermarkets loss leading with bulk alcohol sales.

With regard to the ban of alcohol on trains it is my view that it is not what people are drinking on the train that is the problem but what they have had beforehand - & in a lot of scenarios folk get tanked up at home on cheap supermarket booze prior to heading out of an evening.

.

Very true, which is why the Scottish Licensed Trade Association support minimum pricing.

 

[SS4]

I have a feeling that all decent whisky would be well above the minimum pricing threshold.

What is the threshold? At 50p/unit a normal (700ml) bottle of whisky would be £14 in which case I'd agree with you.

As a social drinker - who likes to do his drinking in the pub - I am tentatively in favour of minimum pricing system. Our pubs, & especially the independent community pubs, are closing at an alarming rate. One reason for this, & it's not the only reason I'll grant you, is the big supermarkets loss leading with bulk alcohol sales.

As someone who likes to drink at home I'm not in favour of it. There is already plenty of tax and duty on alcohol, a minimum price is to raise more money rather than cut drinking. A better solution IMO is to cut duty for (small/independent) pubs as those which aren't closing are becoming chain pubs anyway.
Additionally it's quite hard for me to find my drinks. I've not seen rekorderlig and 'spoons is the only place I find that sells fireball and they don't mix it with cream soda

With regard to the ban of alcohol on trains it is my view that it is not what people are drinking on the train that is the problem but what they have had beforehand - & in a lot of scenarios folk get tanked up at home on cheap supermarket booze prior to heading out of an evening.

Only time will tell if this ban will work.

I'd agree with that. Pre-drinking has took off because of price and now people get on the train/bus already hammered.

 

[paul1609]

If you are travelling on the train before 9pm will last orders be announced over the pa at 8.45 and will you enjoy "drinking up time" until 9.15?

 

[reb0118]

If you are travelling on the train before 9pm will last orders be announced over the pa at 8.45 and will you enjoy "drinking up time" until 9.15?

Last orders at 20:30 - drink finished by 21:00

I wonder what happens if one were to open a can at 20:59?

Get it necked by 21:00 and you'll be fine. (I find giving the can a damn good shake prior to opening helps)

 

[Greenback]

I have a feeling that all decent whisky would be well above the minimum pricing threshold. As a social drinker - who likes to do his drinking in the pub - I am tentatively in favour of minimum pricing system. Our pubs, & especially the independent community pubs, are closing at an alarming rate. One reason for this, & it's not the only reason I'll grant you, is the big supermarkets loss leading with bulk alcohol sales.

With regard to the ban of alcohol on trains it is my view that it is not what people are drinking on the train that is the problem but what they have had beforehand - & in a lot of scenarios folk get tanked up at home on cheap supermarket booze prior to heading out of an evening.

Spot on, reb0118!

 

[krisk]

Not sure how I feel on this, you can't board a train or coach drunk so why should a train be different.

 

[marks87]

I have a feeling that all decent whisky would be well above the minimum pricing threshold. As a social drinker - who likes to do his drinking in the pub - I am tentatively in favour of minimum pricing system. Our pubs, & especially the independent community pubs, are closing at an alarming rate. One reason for this, & it's not the only reason I'll grant you, is the big supermarkets loss leading with bulk alcohol sales.

50p a unit is still considerably cheaper than you are in a pub.

For instance, one of my haunts is £3.90 for a pint of Deuchars; I can get a 500ml (0.9 pint) bottle in Asda for £1.50, which is over-priced with respect to the legislation (at 50p a unit, it would be just over £1).

As I said, the intended targets of the legislation won't care; they'll just see that their super-strength rocket fuel has gone up, so make sacrifices elsewhere.