Baroness Thatcher has died

[4SRKT]

Hypocrisy! - I'm not surprised however.
BBC

I'm happy for them to play it. The song is a twos-up to Thatcher, and we can all have a belly laugh at just how ferkin' stoopid the idiots (incl. Louise Mensch, whose loyal service to the party was to give up her seat to a bye-election) who propelled it up the charts thinking the title was to be taken literally. Like a punk band from Burnley in 1979 would love Thatcher. D'oh!

They've done our work for us and ensured that one-and-a-bit songs disrespecting the old harridan will be played on Sunday.

 

[Clip]

I'm happy for them to play it. The song is a twos-up to Thatcher, and we can all have a belly laugh at just how ferkin' stoopid the idiots (incl. Louise Mensch, whose loyal service to the party was to give up her seat to a bye-election) who propelled it up the charts thinking the title was to be taken literally. Like a punk band from Burnley in 1979 would love Thatcher. D'oh!

They've done our work for us and ensured that one-and-a-bit songs disrespecting the old harridan will be played on Sunday.

Oops ill pop back in here before I leave again to point out that again you dont know what you're talking about

Hargreaves went on to state he had 'great reverence for Thatcher

source

As well as countless interviews and stuff that said they didnt do it as a pastiche or ironically but they liked her.

carry on

 

[bnm]

And yet in that self same Wikipedia entry, edited over the past few days, another band member commented to the BBC, "that it had been written as a satirical swipe at Margaret Thatcher." As well as countless articles elsewhere confirming that it was a pastiche. Including historical reviews of the song from the time it was first released.

The irony has been lost on those tories who are bigging up the song. Louise Mensch in particular seems to have convinced herself that the song is a perfect valediction for Mrs T rather than a p*** take.

Lead singer Michael Hargreaves has hardly been convincing with his support for Margaret Thatcher in press interviews. Quoted as saying "My grandfather was [both] a Christian and a communist. I'm a fat, 50-year-old punk. You make your mind up about my political sensibilities."

Ringing endorsement for the Iron Lady? Hardly.

Carry on Clip.

 

[Eagle]

If you want to think that a song consisting of the lyrics "oh Margaret Thatcher is so sexy, she's the girl for you and me, I go red when she's on the telly, because I think she fancies me" sung in a playground singsong voice is sincere, then that's fine. :P

Also check the record's cover.

 

[Clip]

And yet in that self same Wikipedia entry, edited over the past few days, another band member commented to the BBC, "that it had been written as a satirical swipe at Margaret Thatcher." As well as countless articles elsewhere confirming that it was a pastiche. Including historical reviews of the song from the time it was first released.

The irony has been lost on those tories who are bigging up the song. Louise Mensch in particular seems to have convinced herself that the song is a perfect valediction for Mrs T rather than a p*** take.

Lead singer Michael Hargreaves has hardly been convincing with his support for Margaret Thatcher in press interviews. Quoted as saying "My grandfather was [both] a Christian and a communist. I'm a fat, 50-year-old punk. You make your mind up about my political sensibilities."

Ringing endorsement for the Iron Lady? Hardly.

Carry on Clip.

Ahh so because its been now edited that makes it ok?

Yet still, from what I read from the band it was a track promoting her, not slagging her, nor ironic.

But given how this thread has gone you can twist it, make it something else and also do whatever you want to it.

I just stopped caring.


See ya.

 

[bnm]

Looks like it wasn't just Louise Mensch on whom the irony was lost.

Bye Clip.

 

[Clip]

Its quite funny that earlier in this thread was posts by people like ss4
Which stated that there was prejudice and an attempt at stifling the discussion from the alleged tories with no idea of discussion, yet that's exactly what has happened, but not from Tory supporters on this thread.

Irony.

And yes bnm, goodbye. When discussion is so one sided because you shout louder,because someone has a different view and you slag them off, then that's not a discussion. That's bullying. The very thing that you and the unions and the left despise when aimed at you yet you're quite willing to dish it out and do the same yourselves.

And lets get under the closure of coal mines to understand a little bit. Figures dont lie.

These are the figures for the sharply declining number of coal mines open each year under those Labour Governments.

1964 545
1965 .. 504
1966 .. 442
1967 .. 406
1968 .. 330
1969 .. 304

1974 .. 250
1975 .. 241
1976 .. 239
1977 .. 231
1978 .. 223
1979 .. 219

These are the figures for the Thatcher years:

1979 .. 219
1980 .. 213
1981 .. 200
1982 .. 191
1983 .. 170
1984 .. 169
1985 .. 133
1986 .. 110
1987 .. 94
1988 .. 86
1989 .. 73
1990 .. 65

So thats 326 for Labour and 154 for the Tories.

I appreciate the decimation of communities was horrid but as an argument for the Tories being against the miners then why the difference in who shut more mines and why was she worse for the miners. Were the ones who lost their jobs before hand when she wasnt in power not worthy of you?

Do you all forget this?

Or do you seem to remember just what you want?

 

[bnm]

I'm sorry, but where was I shouting? Where was I bullying?

I believe it's called debate. I respect a person's right to hold a different viewpoint to mine. I have less respect though for folk who get all huffy and accuse others of shouting and bullying, merely because their viewpoint is challenged.

And coal mines closing is but one reason why I disagree that Thatcher was a positive influence on the UK.

Nice selective use of the figures by the way. Leaving out the Heath years entirely. And an interesting conclusion that it was only the governments that closed mines. That's a very big, and flawed, assumption to make. There's no separate reasons for the closures. Too small. Worked out. Unsafe. Too costly. Demand. Just some reasons a mine would close and the vast majority of closure decisions, whatever the reason, would have been taken by the Coal Board, not government. And there's no mention of the size of the mines closed in each year. Yes, more mines closed when Labour where in power. But the reasons for the closures and who made the decision cannot be extrapolated from those figures.

Figures don't lie. But they can be manipulated to suit an argument. And they can be used to draw flawed conclusions.

 

[12CSVT]

According to a poll by ComRes only 25% support the use of public money to pay for Thatcher's funeral. It seems ironic that for a person who was opposed to public spending, such an obscene amount of taxpayers' money (£8,000,000 or £10,000,000 depending which figures you believe) is being lavished on one funeral. Not to mention that a 3 mile stretch of Central London will be under armed siege on Wednesday.

 

[4SRKT]

Look,
I am a bit fed up of the whole acrimony on here. Clip got caught either telling untruths or not reading properly on here the other day,
And I admit I did call him a liar.
Really, maybe it's time to pack in all this acrimony and move on.

 

[jon0844]

According to a poll by ComRes only 25% support the use of public money to pay for Thatcher's funeral. It seems ironic that for a person who was opposed to public spending, such an obscene amount of taxpayers' money (£8,000,000 or £10,000,000 depending which figures you believe) is being lavished on one funeral. Not to mention that a 3 mile stretch of Central London will be under armed siege on Wednesday.

Yet the same poll stated most people wanted more conviction politicians!

The problem comes when a politician is committed to something that is against what you want.

Society has many ills today, but I can't believe anyone would be imagining a world where the unions had 'won', we still had a coal industry subsidised by the state to be competitive (I guess the rich would be paying for that, what few had remained in the country and we couldn't have been in the EU as it would have been deemed illegal) and everyone had their own council home while on the waiting list to get BT to install a phone line, and hoping BT put a cell site near their home so they could use their mobile (the choice of models being that of just one network) - and thinking that was favourable to where we are today?

The unions were just as decisive, if not more so. If you wanted to be looked after, you became a member, paid your dues and played the game - otherwise you were on your own and would be an outcast in the community - and possibly even get verbally and physically abused for wanting to work.

And for those who dared break away and become successful on their own, I'm sure these people could never return to their home towns for fear of being called traitors.

I personally feel that many unions and the old Labour party values is all about keeping the people down. Creating an enemy, convincing you to fight and - of course - giving up a bit of your salary to help fight the cause. You're told you're a victim to justify the existence of these people, many of whom are likely to be making an awful lot of money at your expense.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Really, maybe it's time to pack in all this acrimony and move on.

One of the more attractive features of RailUK forums is that despite widely held views on emotive matters, our forum members show far more restraint than some other forums in the vast majority of thread discussions.

With this point in mind, I would most certainly second the point that you have made in your quote above.

 

[LE Greys]

Yet the same poll stated most people wanted more conviction politicians!

The problem comes when a politician is committed to something that is against what you want.

Society has many ills today, but I can't believe anyone would be imagining a world where the unions had 'won', we still had a coal industry subsidised by the state to be competitive (I guess the rich would be paying for that, what few had remained in the country and we couldn't have been in the EU as it would have been deemed illegal) and everyone had their own council home while on the waiting list to get BT to install a phone line, and hoping BT put a cell site near their home so they could use their mobile (the choice of models being that of just one network) - and thinking that was favourable to where we are today?

The unions were just as decisive, if not more so. If you wanted to be looked after, you became a member, paid your dues and played the game - otherwise you were on your own and would be an outcast in the community - and possibly even get verbally and physically abused for wanting to work.

And for those who dared break away and become successful on their own, I'm sure these people could never return to their home towns for fear of being called traitors.

I personally feel that many unions and the old Labour party values is all about keeping the people down. Creating an enemy, convincing you to fight and - of course - giving up a bit of your salary to help fight the cause. You're told you're a victim to justify the existence of these people, many of whom are likely to be making an awful lot of money at your expense.

That world sounds a heck of a lot less complicated than today. Just using your mobile phone example, it would mean that your mobile could essentially be an extension of your landline, charged at the same rate for calls, with texts possibly costing a nominal 1p (they were once supposed to be free). We often find ourselves bombarded with essentially useless choice and competition, which I guess is a direct legacy of those times.

There are good points and bad points to every point of view, and most likely some form of acceptable compromise could have been reached if both sides had just backed off a bit.

I accept the rest of your points, though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just finished watching "Margaret Death of a Revolutionary" a documentary on Channel 4.

Quite an interesting programme themed on maggie as the liberator of the Working Class (at least some of them) against an unholy alliance of Grandee Conservatives and Socialists who for there own idealogical reasons wanted to control the aforesaid.

Bernard Ingham .... I thought Denis Healey had Bushy Eyebrows but interviews with BI in the programme , his meet his side burns....handlebar eyebrows indeed

Worth a watch

I might see if I can dig that up sometime, thanks.

 

[jon0844]

Text messaging was never meant to be free. Who told you that? When Orange introduced it there was a fixed fee per month, which quickly changed when usage increased way beyond anyone ever predicted. Nobody early on thought SMS would be that popular, so nobody had considered properly how to charge for it.

You make it sound like if we'd kept a single phone company everything would have been nearly free. I seriously doubt that.

Who would have been paying for all these things that would have been so much cheaper and better? The rich? No, you and me.

 

[4SRKT]

Text messaging was never meant to be free. Who told you that? When Orange introduced it there was a fixed fee per month, which quickly changed when usage increased way beyond anyone ever predicted. Nobody early on thought SMS would be that popular, so nobody had considered properly how to charge for it.

You make it sound like if we'd kept a single phone company everything would have been nearly free. I seriously doubt that.

Who would have been paying for all these things that would have been so much cheaper and better? The rich? No, you and me.

I think (or at least that's what I read) that LE Greys was trying to say that a world somewhere between that we have ended up with and the one that would have resulted had the Unions' apparent agenda been followed to its logical conclusion, would have been better than either.

Have you read 1985 by Anthony Burgess? You would probably enjoy it if you haven't already.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yet the same poll stated most people wanted more conviction politicians.

I thing that the way the parliamentary expenses scandal went, more people wanted more convicted politicians...

 

[LE Greys]

I think (or at least that's what I read) that LE Greys was trying to say that a world somewhere between that we have ended up with and the one that would have resulted had the Unions' apparent agenda been followed to its logical conclusion, would have been better than either.

Have you read 1985 by Anthony Burgess? You would probably enjoy it if you haven't already.

Sounds interesting, I'll see if Herts Libraries have it.

And yes, that's exactly what I was getting at. My recollections came from a radio programme about how text messaging took off. The confusion probably came from the fact that pager messaging was free, and the original idea was supposed to be used by 'phone company people only, IIRC. I would expect that political pressure from one side or another would keep the charge down. If BT was charging way above cost price for text messaging, an MP would get hold of it, leak the story to the papers and most likely ask the Postmaster General (or whoever) to account for BT fleecing the public. At least, that's how it's supposed to work. Similar arrangements can cover gas, electricity, water and all the other utilities. That's how a regulated state provider ought to work.

 

[jon0844]

I thing that the way the parliamentary expenses scandal went, more people wanted more convicted politicians...

Haha!

My recollections came from a radio programme about how text messaging took off. The confusion probably came from the fact that pager messaging was free, and the original idea was supposed to be used by 'phone company people only, IIRC. I would expect that political pressure from one side or another would keep the charge down. If BT was charging way above cost price for text messaging, an MP would get hold of it, leak the story to the papers and most likely ask the Postmaster General (or whoever) to account for BT fleecing the public. At least, that's how it's supposed to work. Similar arrangements can cover gas, electricity, water and all the other utilities. That's how a regulated state provider ought to work.

Vodafone first offered SMS as a way of paging people (as you say), with people sending texts via a PC or via a call centre - just like a pager (but having the unique advantage of being able to confirm to the sender that it was received). SMS was also used to program the SIM card with features (secretly) and is still used to send commands to turn the voicemail icon/off, change the network ID, preset/preferred roaming networks and more.

Early GSM handsets (1991 onwards) didn't even have mobile originated SMS as an option.. the first was an Orbitel 901 or 902 (ISTR) and then later, Nokia's 2110 and 2140 (Orange). Orange had no idea SMS would be big, hence the fixed rate charge that was about £1.50 or £2.50 a month.

Another big problem that stopped the growth of SMS for some time was no ability to text people on other networks, or those abroad. That took some time to happen too.

However, in terms of costing, there's technically no cost as it's a by-product of the signalling system. Yet as SMS took off, the cost actually sky rocketed as you now needed loads of SMS servers to handle the traffic. SMS traffic should be falling, or will fall, now people are using IM and other methods to communicate but, boy, did it have a good run for something nobody could really see as being that useful.

 

[bnm]

"Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead" made it to number 2 in the official charts.

The 'failed to spot the irony' rival song, bigged up by various tories: "I'm in Love With Margaret Thatcher", scraped into the Top 40 at number 35, selling less than one sixth the amount of copies as "Ding Dong".

The music buying community has spoken.

 

[wintonian]

"Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead" made it to number 2 in the official charts.

The 'failed to spot the irony' rival song, bigged up by various tories: "I'm in Love With Margaret Thatcher", scraped into the Top 40 at number 35, selling less than one sixth the amount of copies as "Ding Dong".

The music buying community has spoken.

and the BBC supported the granters of the licence fee again.

 

[Eagle]

The music single buying community has spoken.

Which is a surprisingly small (and diversified) pool it seems nowadays.

As an aside, the genre disparity between the singles and album charts these last few years has been quite striking.

 

[jon0844]

The music buying community has spoken.

So that was 100 sales vs 25 then.

Oh well, everyone had their fun and by (the end of) next week it will all be forgotten when people jump on another bandwagon. Hey, Britain's Got Talent is back on - that should do it!!

 

[SS4]

So that was 100 sales vs 25 then.

Oh well, everyone had their fun and by next week it will all be forgotten when people jump on another bandwagon. Hey, Britain's Got Talent is back on - that should do it!!

I'll be glad when the bandwagon is over. Hoping for a bank holiday Wednesday because I need more holiday

 

[wintonian]

So that was 100 sales vs 25 then.

Oh well, everyone had their fun and by (the end of) next week it will all be forgotten when people jump on another bandwagon. Hey, Britain's Got no Talent is back on - that should do it!!

Corrected your omission for you.

 

[4SRKT]

So that was 100 sales vs 25 then.

Oh well, everyone had their fun and by (the end of) next week it will all be forgotten when people jump on another bandwagon. Hey, Britain's Got Talent is back on - that should do it!!

Oh God, you're not serious? Not that codswallop again?

 

[wintonian]

Anyway I bet the BBC are glad they axed ToTP else they would have to find a Julie Garland tribute act to stick on stage - or could they get away with not playing the highest new entry?

From Johnnie Stewart's obituary in the Guardian:

Artists could only qualify for inclusion if they had a record in the Top 20 which was going up, and no record could be repeated from the previous week unless it was at No 1. The highest new entry and highest climber were always included, along with a "tip for the top" selected from the week's new releases.

 

[4SRKT]

I remember that TOTP policy well. And I remember how unusual it was for a record to go straight in at number one. Records would go up and down from one week to the next as well, which hardly ever happens now.

 

[wintonian]

I remember that TOTP policy well. And I remember how unusual it was for a record to go straight in at number one. Records would go up and down from one week to the next as well, which hardly ever happens now.

You don't have to hear it on the radio/ Saturday morning children's TV etc. several times before you get an urge to buy it on your next weekend shopping trip.

The way people consume and then purchase (or not) music has changed beyond recognition as the recent woes of HMV tell us.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was that song the best recorded song ever recorded by the Munchkins ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
****************************************************************************************************

I see that an announcement has been made on BBC Radio 4 that the Great Bell at Westminster will be muted during the time of the ceremonial funeral.

 

[SS4]

Some more cheap political point scoring I see. If only he'd stop abusing the woman's death to gain political points. It's as bad, if not worse, than actively celebrating