On "subsidy" threads, it's always pointed out that it's unfair that the franchise boundaries put all the "local" services together - and it's an artificial collection of routes that doesn't reflect all of northern England...
...yet on the "north/south" threads the same people are perfectly happy to give the impression that the "no new trains" applies to all of northern England (ignoring the 175s, 180s, 185s, 220s, 221s, 350s, 390s and a token amount of 222s that we see).
Apart from Rotherham (one 185 stops there a day IIRC) and Barnsley (used to have Midland Mainline 170s a couple of times a day but obviously no longer), I can't think of any
major place in northern England that does't see post-privatisation stock stopping there.
Yes, there's not been any new trains on the most "local" services since the 333s were introduced, but what about the old Wessex franchise? Or the old Valley Lines franchise? Except that they were rolled into bigger regional franchises, so the 1980s DMUs don't stick out as much. If TPE and Northern were merged would people shut up about the "no new trains since..." argument?
There will be an item on Pacers on Look North Yorkshire at 1825-1855. Unfortunately I'll be out by then.
I saw the one at 22:30 yesterday, where they claimed at the start of the article that Pacers were "the oldest trains still running in Yorkshire" - given that HSTs were from the decade before Pacers, I gave up there!
The population of the North is twice that of London and the economy of Yorkshire is greater than that of many countries
So?
Surely passenger figures are much more important?
For mass transportation to work well you need population density, and London's population is denser than anywhere in Europe (insert punchline here, I know, I know...)
We just want the same spend per head of population as in the southeast but are a long, long way behind
"We"? Congratulations on being elected spokesperson for The North!
Do "we" also want the same subsidy per passenger mile as Big Bad London too?
About once a month, a new thread is posted about how the poor north suffers at the behest of London extravagance
Yup - here we go again! :roll:
Each time pseudo-facts and half-truths are trotted out about how the north gets 'London cast-offs' whilst London gets brand new trains
Yeah, it's infuriating - doesn't matter how many times the 313s and the Isle of Wight gets mentioned - people are convinced that "the North" is full of London cast offs - despite the fact that very few trains today have been cascaded like this (compare to BR who did this kind of thing more - e.g. the mid-life Deltics cascaded on to what we now call Transpennine, same with Peaks displaced from the MML)... facts don't matter to those with their agendas!
These irrational postings on these threads are indicative of the massive chip that many seem to have on their shoulders. Ironically, most of the invective seems to be coming from west of the Pennines where there is an electrification programme in full swing, - those further east seem to be more rational about the matter
I could argue that Sheffield gets a rough deal (doesn't look like we'll see any electrification before 2020, even then it won't link our city to anywhere else in Yorkshire, the TramTrain to Rotherham has seemingly had more delays than the Edinburgh Tram/ Todmorden Chord/ Thameslink2000 put together!), but I can see the bigger picture - I'm not just selfishly banging on about how underachieving my local line is.
The north west has had a
great deal (Lancashire Triangle, Manchester Hub, CP5 electrification) yet most of the moaning comes from that side of the Pennines - strange, considering the slim pickings in places like Teesside.
I'm not sure who in their right mind would use the Cumbrian Coast from end to end as a mode of transport: You yourself admit that you wish to do so as a a recreational activity - Ferrying rail enthusiasts around by obscure routes does not, I am sure, make up more than a tiny minority of a TOCs business.
Yeah, the "Preston to Carlisle is unacceptable on a Pacer" argument is one of the weakest I've seen on this Forum - amazed that people can argue it with a straight face!