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Bexhill to London annual season

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DavyCrocket

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Can anyone confirm please (as you're pretty good with the Routing Guides) whether a Bexhill to Victoria Annual Season would be valid to London Bridge. The person intends to start their journey from Battle. Conditions on the Fare Finder state it is valid Via Any Permitted Route.

Thanks
 
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soil

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I am not sure how you would determine the appropriate routeing point (if any) for a Bexhill - Victoria season, since there exists no Bexhill - Victoria single fare.
 

furlong

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Perhaps refer back to the original Routeing Guide here? From memory, the "exceptional circumstances" paragraph in the instructions comes from the original version and the wording now no longer flows on from the amended paragraph before it. (Interestingly, Section F still does not contain the amendment.)

I would suggest that a reasonable way to proceed in this situation is to compare the fares for the actual ticket type concerned to determine the appropriate routeing point(s).

With 7DS this would lead to Lewes and not Hastings, using London Terminals where there is no separate Victoria fare.

Bexhill 7DS ANY PERMITTED 105.70
Lewes 7DS 96.50
Hastings 7DS lowest 107.60
Source: brfares.com
 

greatkingrat

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The shortest route from Bexhill to Victoria is Bexhill - St Leonards - Tonbridge - Bromley South - Victoria so it must be valid on this route.

You could also use it Bexhill - Lewes - E Croydon - London Bridge - Waterloo E - Clapham J - Victoria (on map LB).

If however you want to use it on a direct train from Battle to London Bridge (via Grove Park), I don't think that would be valid.
 

bb21

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The Any Permitted season (£105.70 for seven days) is a fare to London Victoria specifically, not London Terminals. I assume this is what is being discussed here.
 

DavyCrocket

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No it's the annual season.

This is for a colleague who currently has a Bexhill-London Terminals annual (sold by staff as it's cheaper than a Battle to London Terminals).
There is another ticket that is specifically routed via Haywards Heath only.

I have a Brighton to Victoria ticket which I can use to London Bridge (as helped find out on here!)
 

bb21

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No it's the annual season.

This is for a colleague who currently has a Bexhill-London Terminals annual (sold by staff as it's cheaper than a Battle to London Terminals).
There is another ticket that is specifically routed via Haywards Heath only.

I have a Brighton to Victoria ticket which I can use to London Bridge (as helped find out on here!)

Makes no difference. Annual seasons are priced on the basis of weekly seasons.

I am actually confused here. AFAIK there is no Any Permitted season between Bexhill and London Terminals. The only Any Permitted fare is to London Victoria specifically. The London Terminals seasons are routed Via Haywards Heath, Not Valid on HS1 or Plus High Speed.

More clarification is needed I'm afraid.

Edit: Not that I am doubting you, as routing might have changed in the past year or so, but sometimes people can get them mixed up so it is worth double-checking.
 

Chrisgr31

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I thought Southern offered lower season ticket fares into Victoria as they did not have to share the the ticket revenue with anyone. On the route in to London Bridge I believe the revenue is shared with First Capital Connect.

On that basis I would say you cant go to London Bride, however I know nothing about the subject!
 

DavyCrocket

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I thought Southern offered lower season ticket fares into Victoria as they did not have to share the the ticket revenue with anyone. On the route in to London Bridge I believe the revenue is shared with First Capital Connect.

On that basis I would say you cant go to London Bride, however I know nothing about the subject!

I can use my Victoria ticket to London Bridge as it is en route to Victoria/Clapham!

I reckon it's the same but my colleague isn't so sure!
 

maniacmartin

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I thought Southern offered lower season ticket fares into Victoria as they did not have to share the the ticket revenue with anyone. On the route in to London Bridge I believe the revenue is shared with First Capital Connect.

On that basis I would say you cant go to London Bride, however I know nothing about the subject!

Revenue allocation has absolutely nothing to do with validity. There are many tickets that are valid on routes that we believe the TOCs get no revenue.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Due to the conflicting information above, can DavyCrocket confirm that the ticket in question is the annual version of http://brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=BEX&dest=VIC&grpd=1072&rlc=%20%20%20&rte=130&ldn=0&tkt=7DS
 

DavyCrocket

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bb21

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Apologies I mean the not HS1!!!

Am in auto pilot from my ticket.

Yeah that's the one :)

Again. I'm confused.

You say that it is the Not HS1 ticket, then you agreed with a ticket maniacmartin pointed to which is routed Any Permitted.

I'm hesitating to offer any advice as I am as confused as ever which ticket your colleague has.

Is it possible to upload a scan of the ticket?
 

DavyCrocket

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Do you wish to find the cheapest seasonn ticket fram Battle to London Bridge or are you after something else?
Yes please. Pretty much!

They've previously been sold a Bexhill to London Terminals as the cheapest
 

John @ home

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The question of whether a BEXHILL - LONDON VICTORIA Route ANY PERMITTED ticket is valid via Battle and London Bridge (and therefore may be used as a Battle - London Bridge ticket) is not straightforward.

The National Routeing Guide tells us that:
  • Journeys on direct trains or taking the route of shortest distance or a distance longer by no more than 3 miles are always following a permitted route.
  • Journeys following a route given by the Routeing Guide are following a permitted route
Both these calculations involve some difficulties.

For the shortest route, we are told "The shortest route is calculated by reference to the National Rail Timetable." Fortunately, a helpful web site calculates this for us. It uses the distances in the National Rail Timetable to calculate that the shortest route Bexhill - London Victoria is 66.25 miles via Battle and Herne Hill. It also calculates that none of the routes longer by no more than 3 miles than the shortest route go through London Bridge.

But the distances in the National Rail Timetable are not those used by the railway industry's booking engines. These are a set of distances in data files in the Rail Journey Information Service (RJIS). This data has recently been released to the public and, again fortunately, the same helpful web site calculates these for us too. Using this data, the shortest route does indeed go via Battle and London Bridge, meeting the OP's needs.
According to RJIS, these are the shortest routes:
Shortest route from Bexhill to London Victoria (66.38 miles)
Bexhill 0, St Leonards Warrior Square 3.9, West St Leonards 4.84, Crowhurst 7.97, Battle 10.02, Robertsbridge 16.02, Etchingham 18.17, Stonegate 21.78, Wadhurst 26.33, Frant 28.97, Tunbridge Wells 31.23, High Brooms 32.76, Tonbridge 36.11, Hildenborough 38.61, Sevenoaks 43.52, Dunton Green 45.07, Knockholt 49.1, Chelsfield 50.34, Orpington 51.84, Petts Wood 52.98, Chislehurst 54.42, Elmstead Woods 55.4, Grove Park 56.69, Hither Green 58.48, St Johns (London) 60.08, New Cross 60.82, London Bridge 63.81, London Waterloo 64.86, London Victoria 66.38.

http://www.bukitlawang.com/routes/routes.aspx
This discrepancy raises the question of which set of data is correct, to which the emphatic answer is Neither! Both sets have many errors and omissions.

There are similar inconsistencies in the calculation of mapped Permitted Routes for this journey, particularly over the operation of the fares check.

Given that differing opinions are possible about the validity of this ticket by this route, we can only give our best guess about whether it is suitable for use for commuting Battle - London Bridge.

My guess is that it is likely to be accepted without challenge on more occasions than not, but a passenger is unlikely to go through the whole year without having to explain the validity. Whether it is suitable for the OP's friend depends upon how comfortable that person is explaining a ticket's validity when challenged.
 
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greatkingrat

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64.86 miles from Bexhill to Waterloo East is about right, but I don't know how they work out that Waterloo to Victoria is only 1.5 miles?
 

John @ home

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I don't know how they work out that Waterloo to Victoria is only 1.5 miles?
The traditional approach is that distances between London termini are deemed to be 0 miles. One of my friends who understands the data suggests that these distances may have been adjusted in RJIS to prevent journey planners suggesting itineraries which shuttle passengers across London several times.
 
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