Bexleyheath line bother Feb 2019

[telstarbox]

Haven't seen anyone has posted this but the Bexleyheath Line has no service all week due to a landslip on Monday. There is a bus replacement between Lewisham and Dartford. Ironically due to the cancelled trains the service through London Bridge seems more resilient...

Not a great week for SE as there was also a suspension on the Hastings line and disruption at Slade Green today.

 

[jfisher21]

Not great, but I guess most people can use the north Kent or the sidcup line followed by a local bus. Probably quicker than rail replacement from lewisham for the outer stations.

 

[frodshamfella]

Wasn't there a landslip before on the Bexleyheath line ?

 

[Antman]

Wasn't there a landslip before on the Bexleyheath line ?

Yes I think there was.

Is it not possible to run a service from London as far as Bexleyheath? I don't know if there are any crossovers on that section?

 

[telstarbox]

Tweet from Southeastern below suggests there are none, which surprised me. I wondered if such a service would get overloaded as it would be a lower frequency than usual, so it's easier to send folk to the other lines.

https://twitter.com/Se_Railway/status/1095402589934497792

Hi Melanie, unfortunately because of the layout on that line, there are no crossover points between the two sets of track and the line is not capable of "bi-directional" running means we are unable to run on this line at all. ^ST

 

[Esker-pades]

Wasn't there a landslip before on the Bexleyheath line ?

Yep. The location is still evident between Bexleyheath and Barnehurst.

 

[frodshamfella]

Yes I think there was.

Is it not possible to run a service from London as far as Bexleyheath? I don't know if there are any crossovers on that section?

When I lived at Bexleyheath and used to commute to London the nearest crossover was Barnehurst.

 

[island]

Yes I think there was.

Is it not possible to run a service from London as far as Bexleyheath? I don't know if there are any crossovers on that section?

The only usable crossover is immediately east of Kidbrooke so you would need single line working on the down from there to Bexleyheath. You couldn't really get any usable frequency.

More generally, as a user of the Bexleyheath and Sidcup lines, I have to say Southeastern's really made a hash of things. At Lee yesterday morning several Cannon Street services showed cancelled and the Charing Cross services were running late and wedged since several stations earlier. There were no extra services on (which I will accept could be a pathing limitation in the Hither Green/Lewisham area) but the two trains that came before I gave up and took a bus to Lewisham for the DLR were a 10-coach 465+465+466 and a 6-coach 465+466, which is an utter nonsense. The entire line can take 12-coach trains and with substantial amounts of rolling stock freed up from the Bexleyheath line, the absolute minimum that should have been going was 10-coach 376+376 (which can carry nearly a thousand passengers because they have much more standing room) or 12-coach 3x465s.

To add insult to injury Realtimetrains informed me that three Cannon Street services, which were cancelled according to the PIS, had turned up within 10 minutes of me abandoning the quest.

Coming home yesterday was marginally better with the Gravesend via Sidcup services (which are normally fast London Bridge to New Eltham) stopping additionally at Lee and Nottingham. Nevertheless, I worked from home today and expect to do the same tomorrow. If I travel, it will be bus to Lewisham again for the DLR.

The Network Rail South East Twitter feed has quite a bit of detail of the works for those interested.

 

[ComUtoR]

The only usable crossover is immediately east of Kidbrooke so you would need single line working on the down from there to Bexleyheath. You couldn't really get any usable frequency.

Which have been removed I believe.

 

[brad465]

More generally, as a user of the Bexleyheath and Sidcup lines, I have to say Southeastern's really made a hash of things. At Lee yesterday morning several Cannon Street services showed cancelled and the Charing Cross services were running late and wedged since several stations earlier. There were no extra services on (which I will accept could be a pathing limitation in the Hither Green/Lewisham area) but the two trains that came before I gave up and took a bus to Lewisham for the DLR were a 10-coach 465+465+466 and a 6-coach 465+466, which is an utter nonsense. The entire line can take 12-coach trains and with substantial amounts of rolling stock freed up from the Bexleyheath line, the absolute minimum that should have been going was 10-coach 376+376 (which can carry nearly a thousand passengers because they have much more standing room) or 12-coach 3x465s.

To add insult to injury Realtimetrains informed me that three Cannon Street services, which were cancelled according to the PIS, had turned up within 10 minutes of me abandoning the quest.

Coming home yesterday was marginally better with the Gravesend via Sidcup services (which are normally fast London Bridge to New Eltham) stopping additionally at Lee and Mottingham.

I completely agree with the whole mismanagement aspect - I imagine at first reallocating rolling stock is difficult at short notice, but by now they should have done it to help. If SE can come up with a Winter timetable to deploy in the event of snow at relatively short notice (been used once this winter so far), running maximum length should be possible in the disruption, which if Govia really want to keep running the franchise they should do to improve their case, but that's another story.

Also while they don't hold any responsibility, if GTR could get a few 12 car 700s instead of the regular 8 they could help, and maybe help rebuild the very frail relationship from the timetable chaos, but I suspect that's mere fantasy

 

[theageofthetra]

Yep. The location is still evident between Bexleyheath and Barnehurst.

Most importantly the remote monitoring equipment for these previous slides detected it very early in the morning before any train could have hit it. It looks a lot more substantial than the previous one.

For those unfamiliar with the section of line involved the cutting is not particularly deep or steep but I believe the issues are with the ground make up and previous vegetation management.

 

[Daz28]

Not a great week for SE as there was also a suspension on the Hastings line and disruption at Slade Green today.

Monday was particularly bad as in addition to the unexpected closure of the Bexleyheath line, there was yet another reoccurrence of signal/points failure at Lewisham. This seems to be something that happens twice a week recently.

There have been an additional 8 trains on the Sidcup line in the morning peak, but they are heavily loaded, often leaving passengers behind and suffer congestion around Hither Green \ Lewisham so a slow crawl until St Johns.

 

[Antman]

The only usable crossover is immediately east of Kidbrooke so you would need single line working on the down from there to Bexleyheath. You couldn't really get any usable frequency.

A service as far as Eltham would be better than nothing with replacement buses east of there.

 

[30907]

A service as far as Eltham would be better than nothing with replacement buses east of there.

See #9 (or Googlemaps!). The crossover is no more.

 

[telstarbox]

This is the live signalling map if anyone's interested:

https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/nkl1

 

[A Challenge]

Which have been removed I believe.

I am not doubting you, knowing you are well informed on these matters, but why is it still shown on the OTT map linked to by @telstarbox ?

This is the live signalling map if anyone's interested:

https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/nkl1

 

[ComUtoR]

but why is it still shown on the OTT map linked to by @telstarbox ?

Because the map is out of date ?

As 30907 states. You can visually check they have been removed by checking google maps at Kidbrooke station.

Or check this map (bottom right corner)




Or the Sectional Appendix

 

[frodshamfella]

When I lived at Bexleyheath and used to commute to London the nearest crossover was Barnehurst.

I just remember there was one at Falconwood too. I do remember trains using it during engineering works years back.

 

[Daz28]

The lack of crossovers on the three Dartford lines means they have no resilience in the event of disruption. A broken down train, a trespasser on the track or as in this case a blockage caused by land slip means that one whole line is closed down and passengers are just told to get a bus to another line. This happens on average at least once a week on one of the three lines. Disruption is just a fact of life for SE commuters.

The same problem is also present in the way the electricity supply is provided. There was a fire near the line at Crayford a few years ago, which closed the whole Sidcup line. Despite the fact that there was a perfectly workable turn back facility at Sidcup, the power had to be switched off beyond Sidcup, meaning no trains could run.

 

[frodshamfella]

Why would they actually take up cross overs, I mean do they create a lot of maintenance ? Seems very short sighted.

 

[John Webb]

Why would they actually take up cross overs, I mean do they create a lot of maintenance ? Seems very short sighted.

Most crossovers were in place for the shunting of goods trains in and out of the goods yards common until the 1960s at the majority of stations across the country, not just on the Bexleyheath line. With the closure of the goods yards, the introduction of welded track and colour light signalling, it was cheaper and simpler to just 'plain-line' the majority of crossovers - it also reduced subsequent maintenance.

Curiously, regarding the Falconwood crossover, the Middleton Press book covering the Bexleyheath and the Sidcup lines mentions that this was installed in 1972! (Although that station, opened 1936, never had a goods yard at any time.) Photos on the Geograph website show this to have been removed before 2009.

 

[hwl]

Why would they actually take up cross overs, I mean do they create a lot of maintenance ? Seems very short sighted.

Yes.
If at the end of life then replace / plain line analysis will be done.
It is also at the near the London Bridge - Ashford signaling swap over boundary so there may also be a link to the on going re-signalling in the area (London Bridge side) and removal could held reduce those costs.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The lack of crossovers on the three Dartford lines means they have no resilience in the event of disruption. A broken down train, a trespasser on the track or as in this case a blockage caused by land slip means that one whole line is closed down and passengers are just told to get a bus to another line. This happens on average at least once a week on one of the three lines. Disruption is just a fact of life for SE commuters.

The same problem is also present in the way the electricity supply is provided. There was a fire near the line at Crayford a few years ago, which closed the whole Sidcup line. Despite the fact that there was a perfectly workable turn back facility at Sidcup, the power had to be switched off beyond Sidcup, meaning no trains could run.

At the risk of being very boring about "BR" , you had a lot more staff around locally in those days up to about 1987 , who could operate points and pull hook switches to carry out local emergency isolation on 3 rail. There were also multifunctional "station managers and supervisors" , as everyone above the grade of Leading Railman was qualified in these things , it was much easier to do local moves - working to the point of obstruction , handsignalling etc and so on. Not perfect by any means . but certainly more flexible.

This is a bad one though , and by all accounts , a good job is being done in shifting this 400 tons of spoil etc as expeditiously as possible.

 

[hwl]

At the risk of being very boring about "BR" , you had a lot more staff around locally in those days up to about 1987 , who could operate points and pull hook switches to carry out local emergency isolation on 3 rail. There were also multifunctional "station managers and supervisors" , as everyone above the grade of Leading Railman was qualified in these things , it was much easier to do local moves - working to the point of obstruction , handsignalling etc and so on. Not perfect by any means . but certainly more flexible.

This is a bad one though , and by all accounts , a good job is being done in shifting this 400 tons of spoil etc as expeditiously as possible.

Hook switches are another potential failure point.

It looks like they have been sending round the chainsaw gang too, (it looks like shear layer is where the roots are).

 

[brad465]

For all the talk about crossover troubles it should be worth mentioning a separate thread does exist for that related to this disruption:

 

[frodshamfella]

Most crossovers were in place for the shunting of goods trains in and out of the goods yards common until the 1960s at the majority of stations across the country, not just on the Bexleyheath line. With the closure of the goods yards, the introduction of welded track and colour light signalling, it was cheaper and simpler to just 'plain-line' the majority of crossovers - it also reduced subsequent maintenance.

Curiously, regarding the Falconwood crossover, the Middleton Press book covering the Bexleyheath and the Sidcup lines mentions that this was installed in 1972! (Although that station, opened 1936, never had a goods yard at any time.) Photos on the Geograph website show this to have been removed before 2009.

That is curious regards to Falconwood.

 

[Antman]

Problems were compounded this morning by a train breaking down at Erith.

 

[ComUtoR]

Also while they don't hold any responsibility, if GTR could get a few 12 car 700s instead of the regular 8 they could help, and maybe help rebuild the very frail relationship from the timetable chaos, but I suspect that's mere fantasy

FLUs are prohibited.

Anyone know if this will actually open on Monday ? Cheers in advance.

 

[brad465]

FLUs are prohibited.

I'm sorry I don't know what that stands for

 

[ComUtoR]

12 car - FLU (Full Length Unit)
8 car - RLU (Reduced Length Unit