Bi-Linugal Branding/station signs.

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jimm

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Over on the FGW livery thread there has been discussion about Cornish being on the new FGW/GWR livery.

What are peoples thoughts?

Some have said it help tourism but it is the national language for some.

I think that, as far as Scotland goes, They are trying to copy The Republic of Ireland with all the bi-lingual signs.

Its not a bad idea. But there was discussion on what is "Scots".

Gaelic regions in the UK are, Scottish Gaelic, Manx, Irish, Welsh & Cornish.

Kids are struggling with English as it is with out "slang" being made acceptable.

Should we start having the PA in Latin as well??

Where do we stop?
Sorry, but dialects are not slang. They reflect a whole host of linguistic influences, often going back many centuries.

Many Yorkshire dialect words, for instance, derive from Old Norse and the period of Viking rule and settlement in the 9th and 10th centuries.

Haver may mean talking nonsense in Scots. In Yorkshire it is the word for oat, as in haverbread, or havercake, which is the local equivalent of a Staffordshire oatcake, and shares its roots with havre (Norwegian) haver (Dutch) and hafre (German).

Lek or lekkin', also pronounced laik/layk, used as a verb in Yorkshire, means to play and again has Norse roots. The same word is used in modern Norwegian and Swedish for play and game.
 
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DarloRich

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Latin is used on signs at Wallsend TW Metro station.
Segadunum - i know it well!

suggestum enim II Sancti Jacobi via litus! fumigans non licet in statione quamcumque partem - cavete ab omni vacuum!

Sorry - my Latin is a bit rusty ;)

I remember seeing, when i lived in Newcastle, a Hadrians Wall metro map but i cant find it now. It was interesting.
 
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STPBTN

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While I don't doubt that someone in the UK who doesn't know English will have a very hard time, there are many people for whom English is not their mother tongue, and it is frankly a very hard language to learn.
English is my third language (out of seven), and I have to say that it was one of the easiest of the bunch to learn!

I've always been a strong advocate of a plurality of languages and think that it's fundamentally a good thing that signage, announcements et al are in more than language. The UK has a huge range of languages spoken in it and I think we should do more to celebrate that diversity.
 

berneyarms

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Sometimes it's very hard to work out humour on a forum that is text based. Some humour doesn't translate so well to the written word.
I would second that - a smiley goes a long way towards communicating that you are being humorous.

I didn't get the humour in the earlier posts either.
 

PFX

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Nobody has mentioned Ulster Scots. Mind you taking the rise out of a communities language in NI can get you a credible death threat.

http://www.thejournal.ie/gregory-campbell-curry-my-yoghurt-death-threat-1796821-Nov2014/
It's quite amusing to see this mentioned. I actually work at the Assembly and was watching proceedings when Mr Campbell made these pathetic and childish comments. While a death threat is entirely unacceptable, Mr Campbell consistently goes out of his way to offend and is no stranger to creating controversy.

It's interesting to see Ulster Scots as I was unaware anyone outside N Ireland was aware it existed, so just as a little background for those who don't know, there was little or no interest in Ulster Scots as a language until Gaeilge (not to be confused with Gaelic) starting to receive an increased level of funding. As is so often the way in this messed up little corner of the world, 'ussuns' couldn't have 'themmuns' getting something 'ussuns' weren't getting. Hence Ulster Scots started to be funded and promoted. When I first moved to N Ireland, I actually thought the local were taking the rip out of my accent. The sad reality is both Irish and Ulster Scots have been hijacked for political ends. True Ulster Scots is more focused on the folk culture of Scotland which Scots brought over during the plantation and there is a definite Scottish dialect in certain areas.

Of the many dialects in Scotland at least, I'd say the one that could closest qualify as a language would be Doric in the north east.

As for Ulster Scots, even the locals get confused! :D http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/478513.stm

With the issue of bilingual signage, I just don't understand why people get so infuriated by it. In Gaelic, Gaeilge and English, I find it really interesting to see the etymology of place names and I think it's good to have a little cultural pride.
 

Hornet

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It's quite amusing to see this mentioned. I actually work at the Assembly and was watching proceedings when Mr Campbell made these pathetic and childish comments. While a death threat is entirely unacceptable, Mr Campbell consistently goes out of his way to offend and is no stranger to creating controversy.

It's interesting to see Ulster Scots as I was unaware anyone outside N Ireland was aware it existed, so just as a little background for those who don't know, there was little or no interest in Ulster Scots as a language until Gaeilge (not to be confused with Gaelic) starting to receive an increased level of funding. As is so often the way in this messed up little corner of the world, 'ussuns' couldn't have 'themmuns' getting something 'ussuns' weren't getting. Hence Ulster Scots started to be funded and promoted. When I first moved to N Ireland, I actually thought the local were taking the rip out of my accent. The sad reality is both Irish and Ulster Scots have been hijacked for political ends. True Ulster Scots is more focused on the folk culture of Scotland which Scots brought over during the plantation and there is a definite Scottish dialect in certain areas.

Of the many dialects in Scotland at least, I'd say the one that could closest qualify as a language would be Doric in the north east.

As for Ulster Scots, even the locals get confused! :D http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/478513.stm

With the issue of bilingual signage, I just don't understand why people get so infuriated by it. In Gaelic, Gaeilge and English, I find it really interesting to see the etymology of place names and I think it's good to have a little cultural pride.
Main reason I was aware is that my all time sporting hero (William Joseph "Joey" Dunlop) was from an area where Ulster Scots is fairly prevalent.
 

misterredmist

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I remember travelling up the coast from Barcelona Sants on a regional EMU towards Lloret and their PA's were in Spanish & Catalan........

I imagine with the varied history of our continent there'll be a fair few instances like this
 

Senex

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I remember travelling up the coast from Barcelona Sants on a regional EMU towards Lloret and their PA's were in Spanish & Catalan........

I imagine with the varied history of our continent there'll be a fair few instances like this
But remember that Catalan is very much a genuine national language of an area that has an even stronger sense of nationality than Scotland.

Gaelic has never been Scotland's national language in the same sense, with much of the Lowlands having a claim to a much more traditional form of English than we now use ourselves coming straight from the Northern dialect of Old English and the extreme north being Norse rather than Scots.
 

gazthomas

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Over on the FGW livery thread there has been discussion about Cornish being on the new FGW/GWR livery.

What are peoples thoughts?

Some have said it help tourism but it is the national language for some.

I think that, as far as Scotland goes, They are trying to copy The Republic of Ireland with all the bi-lingual signs.

Its not a bad idea. But there was discussion on what is "Scots".

Gaelic regions in the UK are, Scottish Gaelic, Manx, Irish, Welsh & Cornish.

Kids are struggling with English as it is with out "slang" being made acceptable.

Should we start having the PA in Latin as well??

Where do we stop?
To my knowledge Welsh is not a form of Gaelic, it is Celtic (as is Gaelic a form of Celtic).
 
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lazydragon

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But remember that Catalan is very much a genuine national language of an area that has an even stronger sense of nationality than Scotland.
My brother's wife is Catalan, from Barcelona, and they have a fierce independent pride that reminds me of Wales, and although my few words of Spanish can be understood, I've always found that they would rather speak English than Spanish, while knowing a few words of Catalan is what really helps to make friends among the locals.
 

PHILIPE

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Welsh originates from the Breton Branch of Celtic languages and goes back to the 6th century. The English over the years have tried to suppress it and at the turn of the last century it was an offence to use Welsh in schools, but in the end we won the day. Welsh is also spoken in Patagonia following settlers travelling there from Wales in 1865. It is spoken alongside Spanish and is the migrants and their descendants second language and not English.

Welsh may be more widely spoken at the present day if it hadn't been the victim of this attempt by the English to suppress it. Cymru am Byth.
 

gazthomas

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Welsh originates from the Breton Branch of Celtic languages and goes back to the 6th century. The English over the years have tried to suppress it and at the turn of the last century it was an offence to use Welsh in schools, but in the end we won the day. Welsh is also spoken in Patagonia following settlers travelling there from Wales in 1865. It is spoken alongside Spanish and is the migrants and their descendants second language and not English.

Welsh may be more widely spoken at the present day if it hadn't been the victim of this attempt by the English to suppress it. Cymru am Byth.
Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad!
 
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PFX

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If Southall can get billingual signage, surely Scottish Gaelic, Welsh and Cornish can too?
No need to refer to Gaelic as Scottish Gaelic. There's no other Gaelic. Irish is Gaeilge, often referred to mistakenly as Gaelic.

Sorry, I'm splitting hairs now. I'm all for bi-lingual signs, regardless of the language. As long as English is on it, what's the issue, politics aside?
 

pdeaves

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trash80

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It amused me no end when Wolverhampton station had adverts for Birmingham City University on its signs.


(Wolverhampton, of course, has it's own University)
Yes opportunist "grab" i believe (i worked in BCU's marketing dept at the time), of course Wolverhampton got their own back by having a billboard advert next to the entrance of our main campus!
 

PaulLothian

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Gaelic has never been Scotland's national language in the same sense, with much of the Lowlands having a claim to a much more traditional form of English than we now use ourselves coming straight from the Northern dialect of Old English and the extreme north being Norse rather than Scots.
Not to mention the use of early Welsh in southwest Scotland, still obvious in place names such as the town where I live. Llyn llaith gau - the lake in the damp hollow. Given that Gaelic was not spoken hereabouts, the station sign would be better in Welsh!

And of course many place names in areas only slightly North of here are clearly Pictish in origin.
 
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