Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[59CosG95]

Article about resident's complaints regarding the electrification work appeared today. Of interest was

Let's hope that's a conservative estimate.

 

[SodTheDrummer]

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news...k_Rail_pledges_to_residents_affected_by_work/

Article in the Bolton News about disruption and inconvenience 'suffered' by residents. I suspect if they'd bothered to turn up to the meetings, they'd have known what to expect..? Apologies for the appalling reporting standards of the Bolton News, it's a local embarrassment..

 

[LDECRexile]

As posted above Lyca has kindly agreed to allow me to create a link between her YouTube Channel and the Combined Volume (CV), which I have now done.

To access it and the other flickr albums which are linked to the CV please go into the CV (below) and click on the very first image, look down the screen to the Comments, all of which contain links to people's work. Lyca's, being the latest, is the last one. The CV is here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you Lyca. Any further material you add to your channel will automatically be added to the link, needing no extra effort on your part or mine.

 

[Ploughman]

in Nodrog's clip, the canopy at Blackpool, still seems to be in a scabby condition.
Could no one afford a can of paint?

 

[superkev]

in Nodrog's clip, the canopy at Blackpool, still seems to be in a scabby condition.
Could no one afford a can of paint?

All that money spent and Blackpool north platforms look as windswept and unwelcoming as ever.
K

 

[GRALISTAIR]

OT - but try the BRW airport then you will know the meaning of weathered and windswept.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Let's hope that's a conservative estimate.

You’re probably right as the Manchester – Blackpool electrification project has been one long succession of conservative estimates.

 

[PDG1949]

The test train runs monthly. Obviously whilst the Blackpool line has been closed it hasn't run to there but has started at Carnforth instead.

That test train headed up to Scotland last Tuesday, as it always does, and the consist doesn't include MENTOR.

This is what MENTOR should look like

 

[Lyca]

This is the fourth video in my series. I got some good close up footage in this one. I had to find different places to film as I eventually got 'thrown off' the station and was also told to leave Wilkinsons Car Park.

As always anyone is completely free to link any of my videos or playlists anywhere they want. I just make them for fun and to record memories.

 

[Lyca]

Thanks for adding my videos to the CV though not all my channel videos are railway/train related. I record a lot of stuff around my hometown as well. Anyone is free to watch anything of course, (I have almost 1,500 videos on my channel) I'll probably be filming around Layton Station today when I finish work if I have time.

 

[LDECRexile]

NODROG has kindly agreed to allow me to create a link between his YouTube Channel and the Combined Volume (CV), which I have now done.

To access it and the other flickr albums which are linked to the CV please go into the CV (below) and click on the very first image, look down the screen to the Comments, all of which contain links to people's work. NODROG's, being the latest, is the last one. The CV is here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you NODROG. Any further material you add to your channel will automatically be added to the link, needing no extra effort on your part or mine.

 

[LDECRexile]

Thanks for adding my videos to the CV though not all my channel videos are railway/train related. I record a lot of stuff around my hometown as well. Anyone is free to watch anything of course, (I have almost 1,500 videos on my channel) I'll probably be filming around Layton Station today when I finish work if I have time.

Great! Thank you for letting us know.

 

[The_Engineer]

n Nodrog's clip, the canopy at Blackpool, still seems to be in a scabby condition.
Could no one afford a can of paint?

Funnily enough, platforms 3 and 4 that Nodrog was on were closed to traffic for the last two days for painting to be carried out!!

 

[Class 170101]

We are about to go to Bromsgrove for a couple of days, so I won't be around to see or film it, if it comes.

Did you see anything interesting whilst you were there? (If you get my drift).

 

[Garry Waters]

Dear Garry

Please see my post #6928 addressed to Lyca, immediately above this one.

Could I please ask you the same question?

I look forward to hearing from you

Dave

No problem at all

 

[LDECRexile]

Garry Waters has kindly given permission to link his recent video to the Combined Volume (CV).

To access it and the other flickr albums and films which are linked to the CV please go into the CV (below) and click on the very first image, look down the screen to the Comments, all of which contain links to people's work. Garry's, being the latest, is the last one. The CV is here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you Garry. Any further YouTube material you add should automatically be added to the link, needing no extra effort on your part or mine.

 

[LDECRexile]

Did you see anything interesting whilst you were there? (If you get my drift).

Background: Bromsgrove to Barnt Green is being electrified. Bromsgrove station has been resited and rebuilt with four platforms instead of two. The short stretch between the two stations is almost entirely taken up by the Lickey Incline. Wires are up but no electric services yet (I don't know if the juice is on.) New, additional, electric, services will start at Bromsgrove and continue from Barnt Green through "University" (a biggy) and Birmingham New St (second biggy) and beyond.

This may be of little direct interest to Manchester-Blackpoolites, but the hugely expanded station (four decent length platforms where some years ago it was down to one short one, under threat of closure) hugely expanded car park (already full, and new extra services haven't started yet) and intended expanded service (electrics up the Lickey Incline) could give "us" food for thought. Our friends are frequent users, they say trains arriving full and standing are normal, Tokyo tube conditions as far as University are commonplace and people are often left on the platform at Bromsgrove, unable to board.

On a sample of two trains, our outbound started from New St, off peak, with three quarters of seats occupied; our return, on the early shoulder of the peak (but inbound to Birmingham) arrived with a handful of empty seats and left full and standing.

Whether the electric services promote further patronage or just accommodate that which has already grown remains to be seen.

I'm not sure what lessons can be learned from this, or indeed from the Liverpool-Manchester electrification, where I understand (misunderstand?) that the all-electric Lime St-Manchester Airport service is to be re-routed via Warrington Central, which is unwired.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think it reflects the booming nature of the outer West Midlands economy, with high demand from places like Great Malvern, Worcester and Droitwich as well as Bromsgrove and the Birmingham commuter belt, and the current services are overwhelmed.
There is a similar but probably smaller trend around Manchester, but not so much around Liverpool and elsewhere in the north west.
University is something else, having only opened in 1978, but has big usage of students and hospital staff/visitors (on low PTE fares).
However, it forces more trains down the West Suburban line when they (eg Hereford trains) could be using the quieter Camp Hill line.
Maybe the north west equivalent is Salford Crescent?
Liverpool South Parkway is another big growth station, now a far cry from its early "whlte elephant" days.
On the CLC route, it easily outperforms the Chat Moss route in local patronage, largely because of usage at Warrington Central (and LPY).

 

[Geeves]

Not sure if it's been reported but the two bay platforms at Victoria have gained some steelwork. Just the stancions for now, one on each platform.

 

[edwin_m]

from the Liverpool-Manchester electrification, where I understand (misunderstand?) that the all-electric Lime St-Manchester Airport service is to be re-routed via Warrington Central, which is unwired.

It is essentially swapping routes with the remaining hourly TPE service via Warrington Central, so that can go via Victoria and reduce conflict east of Piccadilly where it currently has to cross all the tracks. Ultimately the TPE will be a bi-mode (I think) and the Northern will be a Connect sevice worked by a new 195 unit, so the net change from electric to diesel mileage is only the Airport-Piccadilly leg.

 

[LDECRexile]

I think it reflects the booming nature of the outer West Midlands economy, with high demand from places like Great Malvern, Worcester and Droitwich as well as Bromsgrove and the Birmingham commuter belt, and the current services are overwhelmed.
There is a similar but probably smaller trend around Manchester, but not so much around Liverpool and elsewhere in the north west.
University is something else, having only opened in 1978, but has big usage of students and hospital staff/visitors (on low PTE fares).
However, it forces more trains down the West Suburban line when they (eg Hereford trains) could be using the quieter Camp Hill line.
Maybe the north west equivalent is Salford Crescent?
Liverpool South Parkway is another big growth station, now a far cry from its early "whlte elephant" days.
On the CLC route, it easily outperforms the Chat Moss route in local patronage, largely because of usage at Warrington Central (and LPY).

I agree with all of that and I especially like the idea of University/Salford Crescent equivalence.

It is essentially swapping routes with the remaining hourly TPE service via Warrington Central, so that can go via Victoria and reduce conflict east of Piccadilly where it currently has to cross all the tracks. Ultimately the TPE will be a bi-mode (I think) and the Northern will be a Connect sevice worked by a new 195 unit, so the net change from electric to diesel mileage is only the Airport-Piccadilly leg.

Agreed

A common theme here is that these electrifications and route improvements are responses to growth, not drivers. I would hope that electrification would at least be an accelerant - the Sparks Effect. No-one could be more in favour of the Blackpool-Manchester-Liverpool electrification than me, but as I think LNW-GW once said, it has only enhanced capacity (4-car 319s) and made some improvement to quality (refurbished 319s), not brought eye-catching service improvements such as journey times or extra destinations, or am I being impatient?

 

[td97]

not brought eye-catching service improvements such as journey times or extra destinations, or am I being impatient?

There is the soon to launch Liverpool-Glasgow which wouldn't have been possible without NW electrification

 

[LDECRexile]

Good to pass through Kirkham at something much faster than the former 30mph which applied at some part of the transit before the upgrade.
What a pity they deleted the idea of increasing the general line speed.
You'd think something like 85mph would have been possible on the open stretches without spending a lot of money (considering what the resignalling cost).

I haven't looked proper distances up, but let's suppose 10 miles of the route could be upgraded to 85mph instead of 75mph. I reckon that would cut about a minute off the journey time. Unless that would have cost next to nowt (hmmm.....) then would it be worth it?

I would guess that raising the speed through Kirkham and Wesham from 30 to 60 will gain a lot more.

 

[LDECRexile]

I reckon Liverpool-Glasgow will be great and I'll use it myself.

It is the only example of service enhancement that I know of and I salute it. Are there more coming?

But why couldn't it have been done without electrification?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I reckon Liverpool-Glasgow will be great and I'll use it myself.
It is the only example of service enhancement that I know of and I salute it. Are there more coming?
But why couldn't it have been done without electrification?

Well, the Chat Moss is now 90mph, and the 4-tracking at Huyton has improved capacity.
The old line wouldn't have been able to take all that is now planned (2xTP and the Liverpool-Calder Valley to come, also Chester-Calder Valley).
And once the TP 802s arrive, the wires will get a lot more use.
The DfT would go on about fastest journey times coming down (Liverpool-Manchester/Leeds), even though this is on diesel....
But the local trains have not changed much, though there are now more Sunday services to Wigan.
The best feature is still the consistent extra capacity of the 4-car 319s.
At Liverpool last week TP cancelled its xx12 and xx22 to Manchester ("staff delayed by late incoming services"), and EM had cancelled its earlier xx52 ("broken down train"), so the Northern xx15 to Manchester Airport was required to cover all four sets of Manchester passengers - without problems, if a little cozy.

 

[AM9]

I haven't looked proper distances up, but let's suppose 10 miles of the route could be upgraded to 85mph instead of 75mph. I reckon that would cut about a minute off the journey time. Unless that would have cost next to nowt (hmmm.....) then would it be worth it?

I would guess that raising the speed through Kirkham and Wesham from 30 to 60 will gain a lot more.

When all the 75mph stock is flushed out of the timetable*, apart from the marketing value to the TOC of shorter journey times, providing the signalling is matched to it, higher speeds also (slightly) increase line capacity and also increase rolling stock revenue per unit.
* What will replacing the Pacers after 2020?

 

[childwallblues]

Background: Bromsgrove to Barnt Green is being electrified. Bromsgrove station has been resited and rebuilt with four platforms instead of two. The short stretch between the two stations is almost entirely taken up by the Lickey Incline. Wires are up but no electric services yet (I don't know if the juice is on.) New, additional, electric, services will start at Bromsgrove and continue from Barnt Green through "University" (a biggy) and Birmingham New St (second biggy) and beyond.

This may be of little direct interest to Manchester-Blackpoolites, but the hugely expanded station (four decent length platforms where some years ago it was down to one short one, under threat of closure) hugely expanded car park (already full, and new extra services haven't started yet) and intended expanded service (electrics up the Lickey Incline) could give "us" food for thought. Our friends are frequent users, they say trains arriving full and standing are normal, Tokyo tube conditions as far as University are commonplace and people are often left on the platform at Bromsgrove, unable to board.

On a sample of two trains, our outbound started from New St, off peak, with three quarters of seats occupied; our return, on the early shoulder of the peak (but inbound to Birmingham) arrived with a handful of empty seats and left full and standing.

Whether the electric services promote further patronage or just accommodate that which has already grown remains to be seen.

I'm not sure what lessons can be learned from this, or indeed from the Liverpool-Manchester electrification, where I understand (misunderstand?) that the all-electric Lime St-Manchester Airport service is to be re-routed via Warrington Central, which is unwired.

St Helens Junction loses its direct services to both Manchester Victoria

I reckon Liverpool-Glasgow will be great and I'll use it myself.

It is the only example of service enhancement that I know of and I salute it. Are there more coming?

But why couldn't it have been done without electrification?

You are correct about services out Liverpool since electrication. However I thought that Northern would have extended the Lime Street to Bank Quay service down to Crewe giving commuters from Acton Bridge, Hartford and Winsford access to the Warrington area. Also passngers in the St Helens conurbation access to the south.
Whilst TPE will claim that their services in May will be much improved out of Liverpool this has been achieved at the expense of nil improvement on Chat Moss local services. Instead the destination has been changed from Victoria to Piccadilly/Airport. For Victoria this now means changing at Lea Green or Newton-le Willows, neither of which has interchange facilities.

 

[Senex]

I haven't looked proper distances up, but let's suppose 10 miles of the route could be upgraded to 85mph instead of 75mph. I reckon that would cut about a minute off the journey time. Unless that would have cost next to nowt (hmmm.....) then would it be worth it?

I would guess that raising the speed through Kirkham and Wesham from 30 to 60 will gain a lot more.

How much faster could Kirkham have been by putting both tracks south of the island and building a new down platform on the south side?

 

[Senex]

Well, the Chat Moss is now 90mph, and the 4-tracking at Huyton has improved capacity.

Well, it's 90 from Broad Green to Astley at 22½ miles. But then it's 60, followed by only 75 to 30 miles before the crawl into Victoria begins. So only about two-thirds up to 90.

 

[Railrover700]

There is the soon to launch Liverpool-Glasgow which wouldn't have been possible without NW electrification

Also the May timetable shows 50 minute off peak journey times Preston to Lime Street, which is a significant improvement. Unfortunately, peak morning services will be stoppers though.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y23223/2018/05/21/advanced