Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[absolutelymilk]

https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/1001847408651898881
32 foundations and 188 masts are remaining to be installed

Down to 31 now!

https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/1002207080995086340

 

[Elecman]

Information from a copy of the 5 May / 1 October 1989 B R Passenger timetable :

Monday to Friday The Lancashire Pullman left Blackpool North 06.26

calling at Poulton, Kirkham, Preston, Wigan NW, Warrington BQ, Crewe and Watford Jnc.

Arriving Euston 09.45.

The Saturday service ( same timings) was not a Pullman.

The return trip left Euston at 16.30.

Indeed and it was a requirement that the On Call Retail Manager in the Preston Area Managers Office was on the Platform to see the train away.

 

[td97]

Down to 31 now!

https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/1002207080995086340

56 was quoted around the 10th May, so they have done 25 more in 3 weeks.

 

[deltic08]

There's a possibility that Elecman might have been 'avin' you on.

Other news - next GSoP is due today, after the exam pause!

GSoP? Good Sense of Proportion? What does it mean please?

 

[Domh245]

General State of Play - sort of like the progressometer of old, but slightly easier to interpret.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

GSoP? Good Sense of Proportion? What does it mean please?

Grand Son of Progressometer- homage to the progressometer LDECRExile used to do. He now prefers a photographic update. 59CosG95 kindly took over. Yours truly did an SoP for a while hence the Grand Son for this version.

 

[LDECRexile]

Reg mentioned new photos in Post #7471, I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157671732263863

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Heartening, especially with the area's problems.

 

[LDECRexile]

Grand Son of Progressometer- homage to the progressometer LDECRExile used to do. He now prefers a photographic update. 59CosG95 kindly took over. Yours truly did an SoP for a while hence the Grand Son for this version.

Its not that I prefer a photographic update over any version of Progressometer, but attempting to do both got out of hand, so I cut my cloth accordingly.

I look on 59CosG95's output with the same pleasure someone feels when his grandson scores his first half century for the 1st XI.

 

[InOban]

As someone who follows this thread with admiration, from a great distance, I am anxious that there is no news about plans, and a timetable, to address the ?void in the viaduct. Every other missing location seems to be in hand, or am I wrong?

 

[deltic08]

Grand Son of Progressometer- homage to the progressometer LDECRExile used to do. He now prefers a photographic update. 59CosG95 kindly took over. Yours truly did an SoP for a while hence the Grand Son for this version.

Yes of course. I do remember now. Since my stroke in February the brain doesn't recall so well.

 

[LDECRexile]

I'm reading Gerry Fiennes' "I tried to run a railway" again at the moment. He was responsible when the line from Liverpool Street to Shenfield was electrified in the late 1940s:

"At weekends and sometimes during the week at nights we suspended normal operation. We conducted everything by hand signals."

"One weekend … we came completely unstuck... trains stood at every signal back to Mile End. After a decent interval 7,000 customers alighted and walked to Liverpool Street along all six lines.. That shut up Platforms 1-14 as well."

"A good many meetings later the Chief Electrical Engineer's representative was absent. His substitute... sat between the Civil Engineer and me at lunch. We saw his glass was full throughout.... after lunch he named the [target] day for completion - November 9th 1949. We wrote it in the minutes, it became … law … we only just made it, the new signalling at Liverpool Street came into use at 12.01 [00:01] on opening day. No electric train had been into the terminus. As we stood [next to the track at Mile End] at about 5 am the first train in public service came up. "Guv'nor, I want a pilotman" said the Motorman. "Why" I said. "I don't know the road, new signalling." "Nobody else knows it either". He looked at me for along moment … the Motorman grinned and went.

"For a week or ten days the motormen crawled around in the Liverpool Street area, finding their way through the new signalling."

The past was a different country.

 

[LDECRexile]

I am anxious that there is no news about plans, and a timetable, to address the ?void in the viaduct.

Info is being sought. It may be anything from a false rumour to a grave problem. On the occasions I've travelled that part of the line (ie not for a few weeks) there has been no discernible speed limit. Does anyone know different?

 

[snowball]

Info is being sought. It may be anything from a false rumour to a grave problem. On the occasions I've travelled that part of the line (ie not for a few weeks) there has been no discernible speed limit. Does anyone know different?

Just guessing but it's conceivable that there's a void that represents a threat to the proposed method of fixing masts (with tie bars running across) but not to the ability of the structure to support tracks and trains.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I have not done an on-site assessment but I would still run a tie bar across and back fill with concrete. But if it is say 5 cubic meters of concrete that is nearly 12 tonnes so other structural calculations need doing etc. needs a possession of course. With Tulketh Viaduct on the Preston to Blackpool section there was much more room so gravity pads were the obvious solution.

 

[Muenchener]

Had a conversation with Network Rail, earlier in the week, in response to a question i had posed. Being; when is the electrification of the Manchester to Preston leg going to be completed? As, patently, it's not going to be the advised 2nd Jul. Response from Community Relations was by the Dec timetable change. When pressed they admitted to " late summer". I asked to be kept informed of when that meant exactly in terms of a fixed date...

 

[59CosG95]

Had a conversation with Network Rail, earlier in the week, in response to a question i had posed. Being; when is the electrification of the Manchester to Preston leg going to be completed? As, patently, it's not going to be the advised 2nd Jul. Response from Community Relations was by the Dec timetable change. When pressed they admitted to " late summer". I asked to be kept informed of when that meant exactly in terms of a fixed date...

AIUI, the wires might all be up at the end of the summer, but there won't be any electric trains in passenger service until testing is complete, and the ORR has signed the route off for electric traction.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Even if NR had given a specific date, it wouldn't have meant much.
Preston-Blackpool North was handed back 3 weeks late with very little notice, even though Preston-Blackpool South had been operational on time (for diesel trains).
Hopefully they will have sorted out all the foundation, clearance and power supply issues in time.
There's also the short eastward extension at Victoria to complete.
Northern/TPE also need a decent interval for route training between ORR acceptance and public service.
New stock should also be putting in an appearance by then (769, 170, and potentially some of the new CAF designs).

 

[Bertie the bus]

Northern/TPE also need a decent interval for route training between ORR acceptance and public service.

Northern don't need to route learn. They operate, or should that be are supposed to operate, trains on the line every day. TPE don't need to wait for the wires to be switched on to route learn.

 

[td97]

I think the Bolton route is a diversion for TPE Scottish services when the Chat Moss route is closed anyway.

I'd imagine Northern can't wait to introduce electric trains, and it shouldn't require the TT change for the start of electric service - EMUs can be used but with the DMU timings.

 

[Muenchener]

Northern don't need to route learn. They operate, or should that be are supposed to operate, trains on the line every day. TPE don't need to wait for the wires to be switched on to route learn.

Agreed BtB. Unlike the PRE - BPN leg; this section has not had total closure for months on end. Far too many weekend closures with little sign of activity apart from, that is, Saturday nights when the rates are,how shall i say, enhanced...

 

[Muenchener]

AIUI, the wires might all be up at the end of the summer, but there won't be any electric trains in passenger service until testing is complete, and the ORR has signed the route off for electric traction.

59; absolutely. Given the project is so overdue; it was more of a fishing trip. Accepting that there is a deal of work to be done, after sign off by the ORR, by the TOC 's before they can run EMU's.

 

[TBSchenker]

I think the Bolton route is a diversion for TPE Scottish services when the Chat Moss route is closed anyway.

Correct. Bolton was very much the ‘core’ route when Scotrish services last ran booked that way - as 185s - before 350s arrived. TPE crews also kept route retention up working the Blackpool/Barrow/Windermere services from Preston to Manchester Airport & vv up to December 2017.

It is only since then that TPE have no booked work via Bolton. It was expected April - and then “late Summer” that the Scottish services return to Bolton, but as we all know the ongoing delays has seen TPE and Northern start working on December for the introduction of electric services.

To protect route knowledge, all TPE depots that have to work over the line have had more route retention days added into the depot links, and within certain jobs also have specific ‘pass’ rides to ride on via Bolton.

This mitigation means that it is very unlikely TPE will be in the situation where its crews all run out of competence. There is sufficient redundancy that if one or two retention days or trips are missed that there will be others to ensure conpliance with the 6-month rule.

 

[CdBrux]

Had a conversation with Network Rail, earlier in the week, in response to a question i had posed. Being; when is the electrification of the Manchester to Preston leg going to be completed? As, patently, it's not going to be the advised 2nd Jul. Response from Community Relations was by the Dec timetable change. When pressed they admitted to " late summer". I asked to be kept informed of when that meant exactly in terms of a fixed date...

To me this points to either a lack of a reliable project plan or that there is very high risk in the plan. Neither is very good

 

[SteveC1966]

So while being a rail fan, I admit to not being very knowledgeable about all things so I have a question. Years ago when I lived in and worked in London on the London Underground I used to travel back to Blackpool on the Pullman. I seem to remember it took just under 3 hours and usually just stopped at Preston or Crewe. When did the Pullmans stop running? and why? because that was a direct fast link back in the 1980s. I kind of remember the Pullman looked similar to the Pendolino but it was years ago.

i Believe that the Lancashire Pullman was diverted from Blackpool to a terminus at Lancaster so that there was no loco change required at Preston. Electric traction throughout.
The one time I traveled on the train, it was a normal rake of mk3 stock with the addition of an extra kitchen car to only service first class.

 

[Class 170101]

Had a conversation with Network Rail, earlier in the week, in response to a question i had posed. Being; when is the electrification of the Manchester to Preston leg going to be completed? As, patently, it's not going to be the advised 2nd Jul. Response from Community Relations was by the Dec timetable change. When pressed they admitted to " late summer". I asked to be kept informed of when that meant exactly in terms of a fixed date...

Don't trust a completion date based on the seasons. (Roger Ford wasn't it?)

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Well the twitter feed said 31 foundations still to do. Let’s say they are all done by the end of this month and that ignores the Viaduct issue.As they are problem bases that involves concrete which takes 28 days to cure. So we are looking end of July. Now some masts can go up in parallel but still I suggest all masts etc by middle of August plus wiring. I reckon all ready by the end of September. Testing, snagging, driver training so December is a good bet IMHO

 

[snowball]

Don't trust a completion date based on the seasons. (Roger Ford wasn't it?)

One of his Laws but I can't remember which number.

 

[Geeves]

Mast (or masts) up on platform 2 at Salford Crescent.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Mast (or masts) up on platform 2 at Salford Crescent.

That is progress. Does not seem like 28 days since the concrete was poured or is the mast attached to a deep metal pile?

 

[01jg]

Been told first mast up at chorley station on Preston platform as well