Blackpool Transport to commence running trams Monday 19th March?

[MidnightFlyer]

Nottingham no longer have conductors. That leaves just Blackpool and Sheffield.

They did when I was on it a month ago - have they been scrapped?

 

[MetroDriver]

Nottingham no longer have conductors. That leaves just Blackpool and Sheffield.

I'm confused by your statement above - we have conductors on Midland Metro - they replaced the frequently vandalised and frankly confusing ticket machines we had installed when we opened. We're shortly going over to new ticket machines for the conductors too, to deal with the roll-out of 'Smart' cards within the operating area.

 

[WestCoast]

Nottingham no longer have conductors. That leaves just Blackpool and Sheffield.

Blackpool, Sheffield (Supertram), Nottingham (NET) and Birmingham (Midland Metro) all have conductors. There was talk of removing them on NET by the new operator, but that hasn't happened (and in my opinion it's unlikely to happen at least until the system has been expanded).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is it because Blackpool doesn't have Ticket Machines at the new Stops?

There's a lot of fuss on Gazette's website and quite a few of the people commenting seem to think ticket machines at the stops are essential and not installing them is detrimental to the whole project.

Personally, I think ticket machines would be an expensive mistake with the touristic and irregular clientele the trams attract.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Have to agree the expense, vandalism, sand and salt could be prohibitive to have ticket machines.
Maybe a couple in the season at the Tower stop as it is very busy.
They have priced the day saver at £3.50 from Paypoint shops, and £4.50 on the bus/ tram. Imo this is a move in the right direction.
Maybe moving to a flat fare, and carnets of 10 tickets at a discount, and or the paypoint system encouraging advance purchase.
Say £2.50 on tram & £1.50 at a shop.
Conductors each issued with a ticket stamper to prevent reuse on another service.
Bus passes take up time too. Hundreds upon hundreds appear after 9.30am! Maybe having a conductor at a busy stop zapping them.

 

[Sheepy1209]

Those Gazette comments are always drivel, one or two brave voices try to reason but as with any newspaper comments page it's dominated by the loonies and single-issue obsessives.

I haven't used the trams since the first day because my local stop (Anchorsholme Lane) still isn't open, so can't comment on the reliability of the service. I do know that I'd rather have a standee tram I can get on than the full trams that went straight past in the old system; I just hope they are dependable, but realistically I'll be positioning myself where I can make a quick dash for bus or tram, whichever comes first.

Ticket machines are the wrong answer for Blackpool - on the busy stretches most of the passengers are visitors, and further up the line where the locals might know what to do the conductor can do his job anyway. One of the things that always stood out to me about Blackpool trams was all the help and directions the conductors gave to visitors; the good ones are unofficial tour guides. I'd hate to see the baby thrown out with the bathwater.

Pre-paid tickets are a big part of the answer and Blackpool already has the right product with the £3.50 Saver - however, I can't think of many places on the promenade where you can buy it - marketing is oriented to locals buying them from a newsagent.

That needs to be opened up; hotels, the tourist information centre, add-on to attraction tickets, alongside car park pay-and-display machines, extensions to PlusBus; augmented by ticket sellers on the busiest platforms.

I'd also like to see the former Pontin's site become a park-and-ride; that would give the Starr Gate terminus more purpose. Most Blackpool visitors arrive by car, so feed them straight onto the trams!

 

[WatcherZero]

Thats a good point, go abroad anywhere and the hotels will sell you travel passes.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Those Gazette comments are always drivel

I'd also like to see the former Pontin's site become a park-and-ride; that would give the Starr Gate terminus more purpose. Most Blackpool visitors arrive by car, so feed them straight onto the trams!

There is a lot of moaners, anti Council & anti Blackpool in those Gazette comments.
There are however a few good comments and some priceless ones!

Pontins site could play a very important role in supporting the Tramway, in fact as the site is still undeveloped (Houses planning pending decision soon) should be given a much higher priority than North Station link.
A unique site, giving access to the tramway buses and South Railway - Squires gate station with Park and Ride to Town Centre Preston etc.
In fact a potential transport Hub.

 

[jonesy3001]

Metrolink have plain clothes inspectors on the trams seen some about when i visit family in the manchester area.

 

[Crimson_Quiff]

In relation to the first day's derailment, it was a typical case of Press being Press/Media being Media. Made a meal of it and made everyone think twice about travelling on them. Later that day, I overheard one Woman talking on the phone to a friend. She said 'I'm on my way home on one now, hopefully it won't come off the tracks! I mean derailing because of a little bit of sand, the tramway runs by the seaside, what hope does it have?'. 'Typical' was my thought. I think the 'little bit of sand' comment was a case of Not Knowing The Facts Before You Speak. I was on that first tram (no.006) and know what happened. The sand was pretty much a huge bank which had formed by gale-force winds. This sort of thing has happened in the past. In 2000, Balloon car no.722 came off on Central Prom after running into a sand bank. So you can't use that to shoot the new ones down

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Flat tyres, caused by skidding, mainly on the Promenade section, is still causing problems for the new LRV's.

 

[BestWestern]

Sounds as though a modification might be needed, wheelsets which carry tyres rather than solid wheels and also have deeper flanges. Might solve some of these initial problems. I can't lie, it makes me happy to know that the muti-million pound plastic fantastics aren't matching up to the old kit so far, what an enormous surprise. I wonder how many salt-drenched winters they'll survive before they end up totally fried. Perhaps that was the real reason behind the modified Balloons, just in case....!!

 

[WatcherZero]

Could also take a while for drivers to learn to properly apply the brakes gently and coast if possible.

 

[BestWestern]

Could also take a while for drivers to learn to properly apply the brakes gently and coast if possible.

Very true, though I would have expected them to have a fairly sophisticated braking system to prevent severe wheelslide, particularly bearing in mind the slow operational speeds.

 

[ashworth]

I was in Blackpool last week and saw the new trams running but didn't get chance to have a ride. I will do that when I'm there again in July.

I didn't look too closely but there didn't appear to be any electronic indicators at the tram stops of how long until the next tram etc. I expected with a brand new system that it would be run with almost precision timings like Nottingham, Manchester, Croydon etc. Is this going to happen or is the tramway still going to be run in the very amaturish way it was in the past with very irregular timings, little sticking to a timetable and long waits for trams which do not turn up.

I may have got the wrong impression, but what a let down and lost opportunity if that is going to be the case.

 

[Tramfan]

I didn't look too closely but there didn't appear to be any electronic indicators at the tram stops of how long until the next tram etc.

There aren't, and I'm quite disappointed that they haven't been implemented to be honest. These would be particularly useful, given that hourly gaps between trams are not uncommon due to late running. Saying that, I was out at the weekend, and the service seemed to be a lot better than the dreadful first few days.

 

[ashworth]

There aren't, and I'm quite disappointed that they haven't been implemented to be honest. These would be particularly useful, given that hourly gaps between trams are not uncommon due to late running. Saying that, I was out at the weekend, and the service seemed to be a lot better than the dreadful first few days.

I thought that was the case. I couldn't believe it. I thought it was going to be new effecient system run on the same lines as the Nottingham Trams where they almost always run exactly on time.

 

[WestCoast]

The service is settling down after the initial problems. Things like that happen - ask BAA about the opening of Heathrow Terminal 5, which had been planned for years! Next tram indicators are very expensive and require a comprehensive system to support the supply of that information. The reason why Blackpool doesn't have them is probably the same as why they haven't invested in them in Sheffield - money. Ideally, that system should be present, but there was a budget and that constrains these features. It is something that can be added in future if more funding becomes available.

As I remember, the indicators were switched off in Birmingham and Manchester is only rolling them out very gradually (that's if they are working with the signalling problems).

 

[Tramfan]

I expect the completion of the substation in Fleetwood to have a positive impact on the service as well. I was in Fleetwood last week, and 1 tram got delayed on Lord Street by about 30 minutes, meaning that trams were backing up at Fishermans Walk, since only 1 tram can be in that section at once. So in this case almost all of the trams were arriving at Fishermans Walk on time, but departing 10-20 minutes late.

 

[BestWestern]

The service is settling down after the initial problems. Things like that happen - ask BAA about the opening of Heathrow Terminal 5, which had been planned for years! Next tram indicators are very expensive and require a comprehensive system to support the supply of that information. The reason why Blackpool doesn't have them is probably the same as why they haven't invested in them in Sheffield - money. Ideally, that system should be present, but there was a budget and that constrains these features. It is something that can be added in future if more funding becomes available.

As I remember, the indicators were switched off in Birmingham and Manchester is only rolling them out very gradually (that's if they are working with the signalling problems).

Blackpool already spent millions more than it really needed to in order to grace itself with a vanity project. Clearly it was less important to actually spend some cash on the things that really matter to the travelling public and which might actually turn the system around.

Unfortunately, Blackpool Transport lacks the high standard of professionalism found elsewhere, and the tramway debacle only highlights this. It is very difficult not to see the whole thing as a project of highly dubious merit, dreamed up and implimented by a few rather exciteable suits who weren't sufficiently clued up to see the bigger picture. The belief clearly seems to have been that a fleet of new trams was all that was needed to sort out all the old problems the system has had for so many years. It's sadly ironic that the tramcars themselves were probably the only element of the old system that wasn't a problem, and in fact were one of the obvious selling points. The operation has always been able to maintain, modify and construct cars as and when needed, and this has been demonstrated again with the rebuilt Balloons. A fleet of these could quite easily have been turned out avoiding the massive cost of buying new kit, untested in such a harsh operating environment, which is already proving troublesome after just a few short weeks and which is likely to continue to struggle in the future (lashings of corrosive salty sea water and fragile, complex electronics do not mix). The real issues were always the high fares, unreliable operating patterns and general lack of any clear operational strategy. It seems questionable whether any of these problems will actually be tackled with this overhaul, or whether we'll now just see the same old operation running itself even further towards financial ruin

 

[Tramfan]

Somewhat jinxed myself commenting on the improving reliability of the service, as I found myself stuck at Fishermans Walk for 45 minutes this morning thanks to a gap of over an hour in trams. No information, and probably would have caught one of the many buses that passed had I have known there had been a tram breakdown. Of course 4 trams (including a training tram) then turned up at Fishermans Walk together, meaning each would have had to wait for 15 minutes for the preceding tram to get round the Ferry.

Also interesting to note that they have already amended the timetable, with trams increased to every 20 minutes on Sunday rather than every 30 minutes, and both trams I boarded today had 2 conductors, rather than the usual 1.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

The last tram Fleetwood - Stargate can be anything from 20 minutes late to sometimes departing Waterloo road up to over 10 minutes early!

 

[Sheepy1209]

I'll soon see if things have improved - my local stop has at last opened a mere three weeks after the rest of the system!

There does seem to be a 'hope for the best' attitude to the service; real-time running information would make a big difference, and it would be a start to publish it on a mobile website. Even something like 'good service', 'northbound delays x minutes' etc would be helpful and wouldn't need to be automated - it would just need operational management that actually cares about its customers.

 

[WatcherZero]

Wouldnt even be that hard really, dont need to tie it into signalling just put the bus style simple GPS tracker mated to a database of what routes each tram has been assigned to that day.

 

[Samtron2000]

Wouldnt even be that hard really, dont need to tie it into signalling just put the bus style simple GPS tracker mated to a database of what routes each tram has been assigned to that day.

Half a days work for these fellas http://www.masternaut.com/

 

[WestCoast]

Had a trip up to Fleetwood today, on the less touristy part of the line, and all trams were very well loaded each carrying 2 conductors. Anything is better than the number 1 bus which was always unreliable!

 

[L&Y Robert]

I hope someone can help with this. We used to catch what would be now called a "heritage" tram at the end of Station Road, just opposite South Pier (double decker, open balcony) where it started. (There was a connection there to the main line, single track, southbound. Never saw it used, though).The tram then came up Station Road, turned left onto Lytham Road, rubbing shoulders there with the baloons (only baloons on Lytham Road at that time). Then it turned right over the railway at Blackpool South Station and followed a sort of semi-circular path inland through leafy suburbs to come out - I think - at Talbot Square.

From Talbot Square (I'm pretty sure) we caught another heritage tram, single decker this time, which went north "Through the streets" to emerge at Gynn, joined the main line there and terminated at Cabin. Looking at Google Maps, I can't decide where these lost routes were. And I can't find anything on any website about the history of the system before it was reduced to one line.

There was also a double-tracked fully wired but totally out of use link along Squires Gate Lane, connecting the end of the Lytham Road route to the promenade route. It emerged into the promenade roadway for a short distance before joining the main line in a fully-fledged double junction.

 

[astock5000]

I hope someone can help with this. We used to catch what would be now called a "heritage" tram at the end of Station Road, just opposite South Pier (double decker, open balcony) where it started. (There was a connection there to the main line, single track, southbound. Never saw it used, though).The tram then came up Station Road, turned left onto Lytham Road, rubbing shoulders there with the baloons (only baloons on Lytham Road at that time). Then it turned right over the railway at Blackpool South Station and followed a sort of semi-circular path inland through leafy suburbs to come out - I think - at Talbot Square.

That was the Marton route, and it did run to Talbot Square. I'm not sure what roads it used, I've never actually been to Blackpool. The tram would have been a Standard car built in the 1920s, some but not all were converted to be fully enclosed. Several are preserved, including car 40 at Crich which is open balcony. The line was later mostly operated by single deck Marton Vambacs (converted from Sun Saloons) until it closed in 1962.

From Talbot Square (I'm pretty sure) we caught another heritage tram, single decker this time, which went north "Through the streets" to emerge at Gynn, joined the main line there and terminated at Cabin. Looking at Google Maps, I can't decide where these lost routes were. And I can't find anything on any website about the history of the system before it was reduced to one line.

This was the North Station route, which ran along Dickson Road, using mainly Brush cars but also some English Electric Railcoaches, as well as Pantograph cars until 1961(?). Trams on this line normally ran through to Fleetwood. It closed in 1963.

There was also a double-tracked fully wired but totally out of use link along Squires Gate Lane, connecting the end of the Lytham Road route to the promenade route. It emerged into the promenade roadway for a short distance before joining the main line in a fully-fledged double junction.

This line was used by circular tours, but before that was part of the Lytham system.

 

[L&Y Robert]

Thanks, Astock500, that's helpful, and surprisingly well informed for a man who's never been to Blackpool. Anybody got any pictures?

 

[WestCoast]

The Marton route turned right at the Royal Oak on Lytham Road (near South Station) to travel the length of Waterloo Road up to Oxford Square. Then along the leafy Whitegate Drive up to Devonshire Square, right onto Church Street and Abingdon Street to join Talbot Road leading to Talbot Square/North Pier. Up until about 5 years ago you could retrace the exact route from South Pier to Talbot Square on the number 26 bus although that was discountinued. Waterloo Road only has a half hourly minibus service nowadays! Marton Depot was on Whitegate Drive and is now a petrol station and hire shop.

A colour pic of a Railcoach outside Elmslie School on Whitegate Drive can be found here (not mine).

 

[HSTEd]

I can't help feeling that they should have built a new line further inland away from the worse of the salt and sand with the money for the rebuild and then just tweeked the existing one.

Probably not enough money for that though.