Borders Railway - Now Open

[Altnabreac]

I thought those were mostly going to be used to strengthen other already existing services though? And they'll only mostly be freeing up 156s with a number of 158s too.

They are being used this year for strengthening Commonwealth Games services and they're due to be used across Scotland next year for more strengthening. It may well be that from Autumn 2015 (Borders rail opens) until December 2016 (Falkirk High electrified) some of these strengthened services may be temporarily shortened again.

It doesn't really matter which units are freed up by these particular electrifications. There are plenty of slower lines currently using 158s that could be served by 156s so there may well be a fairly complicated cascade of units to free up faster ones for Borders rail.

I suspect this means the loco hauled unit is safe enough until December 2016 but I'm not convinced they'll need an extra diagram.

 

[railjock]

That was quick.

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=46329

 

[ianhr]

That was quick.

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=46329

Impressive! good progress in Scotland at least. Is the Dulnain River bridge going in this weekend too (a step towards re-connecting Grantown on Spey)?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . Is the Dulnain River bridge going in this weekend too (a step towards re-connecting Grantown on Spey)?

Yes. But see the dedicated thread Strathspey Railway Extension

 

[overthewater]

When will testing start on the route?

 

[David Dunning]

Some interesting borders railway shots from 1972 in this programme
plus Carlisle and S/C route too

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01rwh55/Nairn_Across_Britain_From_Leeds_into_Scotland/

 

[david16]

There was talk of a half hourly service to and from Gorebridge and an hourly fast to/from Tweedbank but I don't the infrastructure being built would support that. Not sure it would get more passengers to/from the borders either.

It will be interesting to see how this line performs in terms of usage once it re-opens.

Everybody who predicted that the Alloa to Stirling and Airdrie to Bathgate lines would result in poor usage figures were made to look stupid when usage figures on both lines shot through the roof and have since remained high.

The same will happen with the Waverley line that usage figures will well exceed expectations and nobody will even think about the possibility of closure of the line again. The Borders can't afford to lose their rail service again.

Off topic. Is the Dunblane Edinburgh service going to be extended in future to Dunbar or North Berwick e.g. to match the Edinburgh to Glasgow via Bathgate and Airdrie going all the way to Helensburgh and the Fife Circle line being extended by the Waverley Line. Everywhere else in Scotland has their suburban stopping train service extending direct beyond Edinburgh Waverley, Glasgow Queen Street, Glasgow Central, Aberdeen and Inverness without the need to change at the big city interchange station after all. The Alloa and Dunblane to Glasgow and Edinburgh will be the odd man out in terms of suburban stopping services if neither extend beyond Waverley or Queen Street. A trek through Waverley changing trains to continue east after coming from the west is horrendously shattering.

To have 2 electrified suburban stopping services with one coming from the east and the other from the west both terminating at Waverley seems a bit silly. Why not combine them both together I.e. Dunblane/Alloa to Edinburgh and Edinburgh to North Berwick/Dunbar.

 

[Buttsy]

Off topic. Is the Dunblane Edinburgh service going to be extended in future to Dunbar or North Berwick e.g. to match the Edinburgh to Glasgow via Bathgate and Airdrie going all the way to Helensburgh and the Fife Circle line being extended by the Waverley Line. Everywhere else in Scotland has their suburban stopping train service extending direct beyond Edinburgh Waverley, Glasgow Queen Street, Glasgow Central, Aberdeen and Inverness without the need to change at the big city interchange station after all. The Alloa and Dunblane to Glasgow and Edinburgh will be the odd man out in terms of suburban stopping services if neither extend beyond Waverley or Queen Street. A trek through Waverley changing trains to continue east after coming from the west is horrendously shattering.

To have 2 electrified suburban stopping services with one coming from the east and the other from the west both terminating at Waverley seems a bit silly. Why not combine them both together I.e. Dunblane/Alloa to Edinburgh and Edinburgh to North Berwick/Dunbar.

I would think that would be solely down to the availability of the through platforms to take such services. Queen Street and Central only have surburban services through 2 low level platforms and Aberdeen does not have a large number of services (in comparison to Edinburgh) so it is easier to path. Inverness, as far as I'm aware has only one through service from far north lines to Elgin.

From memory, Edinburgh only has 4 (?) through platforms of which I would expect one (effectively) has a EC service in it for most of the day. I don't know if there are through lines that you could signal through trains on to avoid half a platform. I would think it is likely to be a capacity issue on the through platforms that would be the main factor in stopping this.

If it is possible to fit 6tph off peak through the throughs to serve North Berwick, Dunbar and Tweedbank, then I would hope that it would be done.

 

[AndrewR232]

From memory, Edinburgh only has 4 (?) through platforms

There are 6 through platforms:

Platforms 1/20
Platforms 2/19
Platforms 7/11
Platform 10
Platforms 8W/8E
Platforms 9W/9E

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Some interesting borders railway shots from 1972 in this programme
plus Carlisle and S/C route too

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01rwh55/Nairn_Across_Britain_From_Leeds_into_Scotland/

Good spot - thanks for posting that. Lots of interest (for me anyway): all these 1960s cars in the small towns and villages; the centre of Carlisle before the pedestrian precinct; some cracking scenes of the Settle and Carlisle in its unwanted BR days; telling shots of the Waverley line post closure and a cameraman called Bob Sleigh (wonder if he ever did the Winter Olympics?).

 

[Hackneyite]

Off topic. Is the Dunblane Edinburgh service going to be extended in future to Dunbar or North Berwick e.g. to match the Edinburgh to Glasgow via Bathgate and Airdrie going all the way to Helensburgh and the Fife Circle line being extended by the Waverley Line. Everywhere else in Scotland has their suburban stopping train service extending direct beyond Edinburgh Waverley, Glasgow Queen Street, Glasgow Central, Aberdeen and Inverness without the need to change at the big city interchange station after all. The Alloa and Dunblane to Glasgow and Edinburgh will be the odd man out in terms of suburban stopping services if neither extend beyond Waverley or Queen Street. A trek through Waverley changing trains to continue east after coming from the west is horrendously shattering

I asked Transport Scotland two years ago whether the Dunblane and North Berwick services could be combined post electrification.

While acknowledging it would be an attractive service their view was that it could threaten to destabilise the running of the ECML and the Falkirk High Line. In particular the single track at North Berwick was seen as a weak spot.

Clearly they are trying to ensure that the Falkirk High line services are as robust as possible.

I think the time to revisit this is when the high speed line is built and it might be possible to introduce new traffic.

 

[PaulLothian]

There are 6 through platforms:

Platforms 1/20
Platforms 2/19
Platforms 7/11
Platform 10
Platforms 8W/8E
Platforms 9W/9E

Additional operational flexibility comes from the mid-platform scissors crossings on the north and south sides of the main station, but in 40+ years of occasional observation, I have never seen the northern one used for this purpose. Anyone know if this happens?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . the mid-platform scissors crossings on the north and south sides of the main station, but in 40+ years of occasional observation, I have never seen the northern one used for this purpose. Anyone know if this happens?

Is this what you're thinking of?

The late evening East Coast Up and Down services to and from Aberdeen just before 21:00 are scheduled to arrive into platforms 19 / 2 within a few minutes of each other, so, it only takes a few minutes of delay to lead to a nice little waltz as one loops around the other to occupy the adjoining patform.

 

[route:oxford]

I asked Transport Scotland two years ago whether the Dunblane and North Berwick services could be combined post electrification.

While acknowledging it would be an attractive service their view was that it could threaten to destabilise the running of the ECML and the Falkirk High Line. In particular the single track at North Berwick was seen as a weak spot.

Clearly they are trying to ensure that the Falkirk High line services are as robust as possible.

I think the time to revisit this is when the high speed line is built and it might be possible to introduce new traffic.

The last time the Dunblane services were extended beyond Edinburgh it was utter chaos.

From memory it came to a head when Bridge of Allan & Dunblane passengers became incensed by the regular early termination of the service at Stirling rather than sending it onward to Dunblane.

Passengers refused to disembark one evening and blocked access to the "rear" cab.

There were sturdy discussions and indications that BTP may be called. But with the nearest officers over an hour away, the sensible option was chosen and the train sent up to Dunblane.

 

[alexf380]

I don't think that there's too much in the way to stop there being a through service to the Borders. If a through service is run, it will likely be an extension of the Fife - Newcraighall locals.
I think this is realistic option as there aren't many free bays on the east side of the station;
Platform 3 is used for stabling and the Dunbar set
Platform 4 is used for the North Berwicks. Since these are hourly, there is often a set parked here for longer than there isn't one
Platforms 5&6 are the old Motorail sidings

They could of course use platforms 7, 8 or 9 but these ofthen have a 334 or two in them.

 

[railjock]

I noticed a lot of concrete sleepers stored near Sherrifhall roundabout today. Things moving on.

 

[cjp]

Borders Railway

Not wishing to re-read all the thread I offer this series which I recently lucked upon, and no doubt has been posted already .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TksRKuvMgc

Ten drivers selected from over two thousand applicants!
Is it always that hard to get such a post or was that ratio unique to Borders Railway?

 

[fegguk]

Fares on the new railway revealed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-26323232

 

[Zoidberg]

Fares on the new railway revealed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-26323232

On the basis of those fares, I'll travel the line from Edinburgh to Gala and back for interest; but other visits to Gala will be in the car.

 

[Leylandlad]

On the basis of those fares, I'll travel the line from Edinburgh to Gala and back for interest; but other visits to Gala will be in the car.

I'm planning to drive up to Tweedbank then train into Edinburgh, hopefully within the first month of opening....I suspect I wont be alone

Getting exciting now the project; construction works well underway and now today's details.

The reopening has had plenty of critics. Can't wait to see them all proved wrong and the line go from strength to strength. The sooner it's extended to Hawick the better

 

[fegguk]

On the basis of those fares, I'll travel the line from Edinburgh to Gala and back for interest; but other visits to Gala will be in the car.

Depends when you travel or if you want to return the open return fares will be about £15.70, off £peak return £13.10, season tickets save a few pounds on the standard return £63.70 for a 7 day ticket which equals £12.56 for each return if used on Monday -Friday. For non car users the premium over the bus will save you an hour of your life.

Using the train will not appeal to every body, cars are cheap to use (at present) if you have one, though not for every journey. No one realistically expects the train to replace the car, it only has to have an effect on some people choice or travel opportunities to sustain it’s self

 

[Tobbes]

I'm planning to drive up to Tweedbank then train into Edinburgh, hopefully within the first month of opening....I suspect I wont be alone

No, I'll be there soon after opening, too. Very pleased with the progress on this one.

The reopening has had plenty of critics. Can't wait to see them all proved wrong and the line go from strength to strength. The sooner it's extended to Hawick the better

Is Hawick realistic? What would the journey time be to Waverley? Any serious ideas on costs?

Normally you'd want to put the station on the north bank of the Teviot and avoid the cost of the bridge, but there's much more room for a station on the south bank, and the leisure centre is in the way. (Of course, if the bridge is already in place, it's cheaper to go on to Carlisle...! )

 

[Zoidberg]

The reopening has had plenty of critics. Can't wait to see them all proved wrong and the line go from strength to strength.

But, at those prices (admittedly Anytime Single fares) will it?

The sooner it's extended to Hawick the better

I do remember travelling the line, but it's reinstatement does not seem, to me, to be a realistic expectation, particularly given the redevelopment work done around the trackbed into Hawick.

 

[fegguk]

No, I'll be there soon after opening, too. Very pleased with the progress on this one.



Is Hawick realistic? What would the journey time be to Waverley? Any serious ideas on costs?

Normally you'd want to put the station on the north bank of the Teviot and avoid the cost of the bridge, but there's much more room for a station on the south bank, and the leisure centre is in the way. (Of course, if the bridge is already in place, it's cheaper to go on to Carlisle...! )

Journey time would be about 80-85mins (bus 135mins)

Cost based on the bill for the Tweedbank line very roughly £M100-150, I can't see it costing proportionately more per mile given the nature of the obstacles probably less. Reinstatement would have no insurmountable problems. Dealing with new roads between Tweenbank and St Boswells is the only major development related challenge.

There is plenty of room along from the leisure centre for a station and additional car parking. The original railway was wide enough to accommodate various loops and siding.The leisure centre site itself is not fully developed, space was allowed for additional facilities that were never built.

 

[PaulLothian]

These don't seem particularly unreasonable fares, compared with various comparable journeys. (e.g. Linlithgow to Glasgow Queen Street just under 30 miles - £9.80 for Anytime Single)

Not sure what the new rail distance will be to Tweedbank, but certainly not less than the via-Gala road distance of 35 miles.

And yes, cars are cost-effective in a range of situations:
- if you already have a car. (But not always - the AA reckons that mine, which comes in the cheapest category, costs me a a minimum of 33 pence a mile.)
- if you are transporting more than one person
- if your journey extends beyond the end of the rail route
- if you can't be bothered finding (and affording) city-centre parking

I had great hopes of using the Borders Rail Link for work commmitments in that area, but I have now changed jobs!

 

[thealexweb]

Have Newcraighall and Brunstane commuters been consulted about the ending of their through Fife services? For me, a health science student who lives near Newcraighall and has placement in Fife sometimes, it seems a backwards to have almost all the services terminating at Waverley.

 

[fegguk]

Have Newcraighall and Brunstane commuters been consulted about the ending of their through Fife services? For me, a health science student who lives near Newcraighall and has placement in Fife sometimes, it seems a backwards to have almost all the services terminating at Waverley.

If you look at the draft time table you will notice that 3 trains in the morning peak and 3 in the early evening peak extend to the South Gyle. Unless some known better, this might suggest they continue round the fife circle as there is no turn back facility at this station.

 

[tbtc]

Have Newcraighall and Brunstane commuters been consulted about the ending of their through Fife services? For me, a health science student who lives near Newcraighall and has placement in Fife sometimes, it seems a backwards to have almost all the services terminating at Waverley.

If you look at the draft time table you will notice that 3 trains in the morning peak and 3 in the early evening peak extend to the South Gyle. Unless some known better, this might suggest they continue round the fife circle as there is no turn back facility at this station.

Also worth considering that there may be Fife "Circle" services running through to/from Newcraighall (which don't run beyond Newcraighall to Tweedbank, so wouldn't appear on the draft timetable)?

 

[railjock]

Also worth considering that there may be Fife "Circle" services running through to/from Newcraighall (which don't run beyond Newcraighall to Tweedbank, so wouldn't appear on the draft timetable)?

No plans for that to happen. I agree it is a negative that there will be a severe lack of through services but I suppose that puts too much pressure on timetables.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Many will happily settle for the new service as it is so envisaged, without any considerations for any sort of "add-on" service enhancements.