Borders Railway - Now Open

[Zoidberg]

Perhaps start with PaxVobiscum's posting. I had no trouble as you gather.

Yes, good idea, I can get at them ok from post #535 but not from your post #536.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

EDIT: Sorry, ignore please.
I must read the previous post carefully
I must read the previous post carefully
I must read the previous post carefully
I must...

 

[Photohunter71]

Just an observation,but the track should have been doubled with space enough to electrify the route.

 

[kylemore]

Just an observation,but the track should have been doubled with space enough to electrify the route.

In which case it would not have been built, although is there not provision already to electrify what is being built?

I am sure if traffic justifies more passing loops and even double track sections could be built where this is easier and cheaper to do so, leaving the more expensive bridge and tunnel sections single.

If the Swiss can operate frequent passenger services as well as lots of freight on single lines as long as it's properly managed I don't see why we can't!

 

[joeykins82]

My understanding was that NR had explicitly confirmed that passive provision for future overhead AC electrification had been made throughout the length of the rebuilt route

 

[kylemore]

Thanks I thought that was the case, that alone would presumably increase capacity without additional trackworks.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

My understanding was that NR had explicitly confirmed that passive provision for future overhead AC electrification had been made throughout the length of the rebuilt route

Well they certainly left adequate provision in place at Tweedbank for future power supply needs.

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/03/76/58/3765896_12170803.jpg

 

[fgwrich]

During a recent presentation by Borders Railway project MD Hugh Wark to the institute of Civil Engineers, he made it clear that passive provision for 4 TPH to Gorebridge has been made with several of the new structures designed to enable double track in the future, aswell as including passive provision for electrfication of the Borders Railway in the future - lowering the track under certain over bridges for example.

To me though, the one area I will still find disappointing will be the new station for Galashiels - I know a certain amount of provision has had to be made for road improvements through the town but with two new bridge structures in place and the new Asda close to the original station site all that has been left for the line is a single narrow platform station with minimal waiting facilities (most of these will be in the new 'Interchange' across the main road opposite the station - in the new bus station - on a single track line through the town with no future provision for double track in or near the town.

 

[Altnabreac]

During a recent presentation by Borders Railway project MD Hugh Wark to the institute of Civil Engineers, he made it clear that passive provision for 4 TPH to Gorebridge has been made with several of the new structures designed to enable double track in the future, aswell as including passive provision for electrfication of the Borders Railway in the future - lowering the track under certain over bridges for example.

To me though, the one area I will still find disappointing will be the new station for Galashiels - I know a certain amount of provision has had to be made for road improvements through the town but with two new bridge structures in place and the new Asda close to the original station site all that has been left for the line is a single narrow platform station with minimal waiting facilities (most of these will be in the new 'Interchange' across the main road opposite the station - in the new bus station - on a single track line through the town with no future provision for double track in or near the town.

That's really good news. For me the final version of borders rail would be 2tph electrified semi fast services from Hawick with 2tph stoppers from Gorebridge. Sounds like there is at least passive provision to achieve this.

 

[fegguk]

Here is the presentation to ICE noted above

http://www.ice.org.uk/Events-conferences/Recorded-lectures/Lectures/Borders-Railway

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Here is the presentation to ICE noted above

http://www.ice.org.uk/Events-conferences/Recorded-lectures/Lectures/Borders-Railway

Thanks very much for posting that link.

 

[Mark62]

Recently I was in the Borders, towns like Kelso and Melrose. The locals are quite indifferent to this railway. They don't think it actually goes anyway. Galashiels is a dead town and the locals have no interest in the railway. Nobody lives in Tweedbank. Yet this line to nowhere is getting two trains an hour. But we do have the vote on independence coming. Voters to bribe and all that.
Stocksbridge, and all the towns down the line to Sheffield have a population than everyone in the Borders put together. There is a railway line that requires little upgrading and to open the line would significantly improve the lives and economy of the local communities. Where are the demands for this line reopening.Oh yes we get the habitual demands for Woodhead reopening, which is never going to happen.
Railways need to serve communities not the whims of politicians and trainspotters lost in time. The Borders railway is a luxury we can't afford.Above all, its completely unnecessary. Believe me, the locals don't want it. I have walked all over the Borders and Northumberland recently and encountered so many closed railway lines. Yes it is sad, but in the present climate, we can't turn the clock back.
There are many more communities more deserving of a new railway than the Borders. North Yorkshire County Council recently refused to fund extra trains to Whitby, but the fund the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. A line that serves nobody but tourists. The people of Whitby could use some extra trains but the won't get them.
When the original tender went out for the Borders Railway in 2011 they didn't have a single bid,such was the indifference to the project.
And nothing has changed. The local communities are still indifferent. The only people interested are the politicians desperate for votes.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Recently I was in the Borders, towns like Kelso and Melrose. The locals are quite indifferent to this railway. They don't think it actually goes anyway. Galashiels is a dead town and the locals have no interest in the railway. Nobody lives in Tweedbank. Yet this line to nowhere is getting two trains an hour. But we do have the vote on independence coming. Voters to bribe and all that.
Stocksbridge, and all the towns down the line to Sheffield have a population than everyone in the Borders put together. There is a railway line that requires little upgrading and to open the line would significantly improve the lives and economy of the local communities. Where are the demands for this line reopening.Oh yes we get the habitual demands for Woodhead reopening, which is never going to happen.
Railways need to serve communities not the whims of politicians and trainspotters lost in time. The Borders railway is a luxury we can't afford.Above all, its completely unnecessary. Believe me, the locals don't want it. I have walked all over the Borders and Northumberland recently and encountered so many closed railway lines. Yes it is sad, but in the present climate, we can't turn the clock back.
There are many more communities more deserving of a new railway than the Borders. North Yorkshire County Council recently refused to fund extra trains to Whitby, but the fund the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. A line that serves nobody but tourists. The people of Whitby could use some extra trains but the won't get them.
When the original tender went out for the Borders Railway in 2011 they didn't have a single bid,such was the indifference to the project.
And nothing has changed. The local communities are still indifferent. The only people interested are the politicians desperate for votes.

People do tend to be indifferent about a lot of things until the real-world implications of it actually come to the fore...

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Recently I was in the Borders, towns like Kelso and Melrose. The locals are quite indifferent to this railway....

You obviously weren't in Stow.

They don't think it actually goes anyway.

Quite right there - they haven't finished building it yet.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

People do tend to be indifferent about a lot of things until the real-world implications of it actually come to the fore.

I think that the Borders Railway project has the full backing of the Government in Scotland for the area that is served as another transport link to the important Edinburgh region, whereas the Middlesbrough to Whitby line is not one that will be viewed as important enough either by by the Government in England or the North Yorkshire County Council.

 

[Altnabreac]

Recently I was in the Borders, towns like Kelso and Melrose. The locals are quite indifferent to this railway. They don't think it actually goes anyway. Galashiels is a dead town and the locals have no interest in the railway. Nobody lives in Tweedbank. Yet this line to nowhere is getting two trains an hour. But we do have the vote on independence coming. Voters to bribe and all that.
Stocksbridge, and all the towns down the line to Sheffield have a population than everyone in the Borders put together. There is a railway line that requires little upgrading and to open the line would significantly improve the lives and economy of the local communities. Where are the demands for this line reopening.Oh yes we get the habitual demands for Woodhead reopening, which is never going to happen.
Railways need to serve communities not the whims of politicians and trainspotters lost in time. The Borders railway is a luxury we can't afford.Above all, its completely unnecessary. Believe me, the locals don't want it. I have walked all over the Borders and Northumberland recently and encountered so many closed railway lines. Yes it is sad, but in the present climate, we can't turn the clock back.
There are many more communities more deserving of a new railway than the Borders. North Yorkshire County Council recently refused to fund extra trains to Whitby, but the fund the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. A line that serves nobody but tourists. The people of Whitby could use some extra trains but the won't get them.
When the original tender went out for the Borders Railway in 2011 they didn't have a single bid,such was the indifference to the project.
And nothing has changed. The local communities are still indifferent. The only people interested are the politicians desperate for votes.

The reasons for the reopening of Borders Rail are tricky to pin down. Compared to most recent line reopenings it does have a lower BCR. It is also true that it has many detractors in the Borders area, the Borders Party who have 2 councillors (out of 34) particularly dislike it, although their party leader recently left the area to move to England...

Its taken so long to come to fruition that its hard to remember that its original origin was tied up to political negotiations but nothing to do with the SNP or independence. The rail link was instead advanced as part of the coalition agreement between Jim Wallace's Lib Dems and Jack McConnell's Labour party back in 2003. See page 15 of the 2003 Scottish Lib Dem Holyrood manifesto where Euan Robson (then a Lib Dem minister) is quoted saying "We will deliver long awaited projects - such as the Borders Railway."
http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/ass03/man/libdem/se2003.pdf

The Lib Dems had long been strong in the Borders and this was seen as their project with Labour getting GARL and the Trams/EARL as being jointly popular with both parties. There was a strong link between the Lib Dems and the Waverley line with a young David Steel MP being on the final train back in 1969. (He was an MSP back in 2003 remember, although not a Lib Dem as he was Presiding Officer at that point).

Unlike some of the other rail projects of that era which the SNP were against (Trams) or lukewarm on (EARL, GARL) Borders Rail was very popular with the SNP, particularly with local list MSP Christine Grahame who became a great supporter of it and put some of the safeguards in the bill (Stow station, clause preventing construction only to Gorebridge) that have probably kept it alive in subsequent years.

Politically the Conservatives have always been most lukewarm on the plan and have criticised it frequently without ever outright condemning it.

The reason the link has taken 12 years from manifesto commitment to opening train is due to the fact its a fair chunk of money to find (with various different funding mechanisms coming and going over the years), the case has never been the strongest and officials at Transport Scotland have never been hugely keen on the project because of that weakish business case. Ultimately however it has progressed because political support for it has been strong across several partys and parliaments.

Within the Borders there is also a strong rivalry between the various towns and as the rail link only serves Gala (Tweedbank of course is a park and ride for the rest of the Central Borders and very close to Melrose but its still "Gala" as far as other towns are concerned) you will always get people in Peebles, Kelso, Duns, Jedburgh, Hawick, Selkirk complaining its "no good for us".

The proposed reopening of Reston station in the eastern Borders that is a priced option in the current Scotrail ITT is in part an attempt to address this complaint from people in Kelso and Duns.

So that's your history lesson. Transport Planning wise Borders Rail has always had a business case that is relatively weak once you get south of Gorebridge (although it is excellent from Gorebridge northwards). This is because a relatively small number of people currently commute from the Borders to Edinburgh for work owing to the poor quality of the existing transport links.

However what may well happen (and there are strong signs this is happening already) is that the opening of the line may strongly increase the amount of housebuilding in the Central Borders, attracting incomers from the Lothians. It will also encourage folk from the Borders to apply for jobs in Edinburgh they wouldn't have gone for before.

This is also controversial locally, as many in the area feel this could change the social makeup of the area and again it will benefit the Galashiels area more than the other towns.

Ultimately this is why I expect the line to eventually be extended to Melrose, St Boswells and Hawick (by 2030?) as the demand for housing and the number of out commuters grows and journey times come down (electrification, additional trains north of Gorebridge).

As to your other issues, these have nothing to do with Borders Rail. Money for rail projects south of the border comes from different budgets so not building Borders Rail will not help Stocksbridge reopen or Whitby get more services.

Ultimately Borders Rail will be a success because it fulfills Altnabreac's golden rule of railway reopening (New line must link a town with population 10,000+ to a large employment/economic centre within 60 minutes travel).

Ideally you'd want the journey time a bit quicker and the population served a bit larger (in the Borders, again the Midlothian population served is huge and will generate fantastic passenger numbers for the line from day 1). Within 10 years both these factors will be addressed and it will go from strength to strength.

Despite the poor business case south of Gorebridge, the line is being built and will generate passenger growth. Folk in Gala and Melrose will come to rely on it and even those in Selkirk and Innerleithen will start using it.

Don't expect anyone in Hawick, Kelso or Peebles to stop moaning that Galashiels gets all the investment anytime soon though...

 

[fegguk]

Recently I was in the Borders, towns like Kelso and Melrose. The locals are quite indifferent to this railway. They don't think it actually goes anyway. Galashiels is a dead town and the locals have no interest in the railway. Nobody lives in Tweedbank. Yet this line to nowhere is getting two trains an hour. But we do have the vote on independence coming. Voters to bribe and all that.
Stocksbridge, and all the towns down the line to Sheffield have a population than everyone in the Borders put together. There is a railway line that requires little upgrading and to open the line would significantly improve the lives and economy of the local communities. Where are the demands for this line reopening.Oh yes we get the habitual demands for Woodhead reopening, which is never going to happen.
Railways need to serve communities not the whims of politicians and trainspotters lost in time. The Borders railway is a luxury we can't afford.Above all, its completely unnecessary. Believe me, the locals don't want it. I have walked all over the Borders and Northumberland recently and encountered so many closed railway lines. Yes it is sad, but in the present climate, we can't turn the clock back.
There are many more communities more deserving of a new railway than the Borders. North Yorkshire County Council recently refused to fund extra trains to Whitby, but the fund the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. A line that serves nobody but tourists. The people of Whitby could use some extra trains but the won't get them.
When the original tender went out for the Borders Railway in 2011 they didn't have a single bid,such was the indifference to the project.
And nothing has changed. The local communities are still indifferent. The only people interested are the politicians desperate for votes.

I think some of the confusion about this project lies in the Name. It not really a railway for the Borders it is mainly going to be used by people in Midlothian and much of the project cost is in the Gorebridge to Edinburgh section where the population is denser. The benefits of the railway wont be clear to some people in the Borders until its complete and they find they can use it after all.

If the Borders economy is dying then denying it investment in order to support more prosperous regions seem a very good way of killing it completely and yet another excuse to spend money on the Greater London area rather than Yorkshire where the same principle must apply.

The reason there were no bidders for the project when put out to tender originally relates to novel financial model for it not having been thought through. History suggests that independently building and more importantly maintaining a relative short railway has always been a difficult proposition in the long term. No other line in the UK uses this model, though I am sure someone will point out an exception.

 

[Altnabreac]

I think some of the confusion about this project lies in the Name. It not really a railway for the Borders it is mainly going to be used by people in Midlothian and much of the project cost is in the Gorebridge to Edinburgh section where the population is denser. The benefits of the railway wont be clear to some people in the Borders until its complete and they find they can use it after all.

If the Borders economy is dying then denying it investment in order to support more prosperous regions seem a very good way of killing it completely and yet another excuse to spend money on the Greater London area rather than Yorkshire where the same principle must apply.

The reason there were no bidders for the project when put out to tender originally relates to novel financial model for it not having been thought through. History suggests that independently building and more importantly maintaining a relative short railway has always been a difficult proposition in the long term. No other line in the UK uses this model, though I am sure someone will point out an exception.

Are you sure you're from Hawick? And you can see the project's benefits? You do know this railway will help Galashiels don't you...

 

[NotATrainspott]

Recently I was in the Borders, towns like Kelso and Melrose. The locals are quite indifferent to this railway. They don't think it actually goes anyway. Galashiels is a dead town and the locals have no interest in the railway. Nobody lives in Tweedbank. Yet this line to nowhere is getting two trains an hour. But we do have the vote on independence coming. Voters to bribe and all that.
Stocksbridge, and all the towns down the line to Sheffield have a population than everyone in the Borders put together. There is a railway line that requires little upgrading and to open the line would significantly improve the lives and economy of the local communities. Where are the demands for this line reopening.Oh yes we get the habitual demands for Woodhead reopening, which is never going to happen.
Railways need to serve communities not the whims of politicians and trainspotters lost in time. The Borders railway is a luxury we can't afford.Above all, its completely unnecessary. Believe me, the locals don't want it. I have walked all over the Borders and Northumberland recently and encountered so many closed railway lines. Yes it is sad, but in the present climate, we can't turn the clock back.
There are many more communities more deserving of a new railway than the Borders. North Yorkshire County Council recently refused to fund extra trains to Whitby, but the fund the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. A line that serves nobody but tourists. The people of Whitby could use some extra trains but the won't get them.
When the original tender went out for the Borders Railway in 2011 they didn't have a single bid,such was the indifference to the project.
And nothing has changed. The local communities are still indifferent. The only people interested are the politicians desperate for votes.

I think the wonderful thing about devolution to Scotland and Wales is that the devolved administrations actually care about the infrastructure within them, even if it is not significant GB-wide (the Borders Railway project would only be significant GB-wide if there was an intense need to add a diversionary route for the WCML and ECML north of Carlisle/Newcastle; right now it is just an Edinburgh-facing commuter/regional line without many benefits beyond that corner of Scotland). The devolution of London's transport system also seems to have had the same effect - would London Overground exist if everything was still dictated from Whitehall and Westminster? Further devolution of at least some regional planning powers is the best way of making schemes like the ones proposed all over England possible.

 

[fgwrich]

People do tend to be indifferent about a lot of things until the real-world implications of it actually come to the fore...

Exactly so, during the rebuilding of the A - B (Airdrie to Bathgate) line, we came across a local businessman who said that line was going to be a failure, which nobody wanted taking people from somewhere to now-where. Several years later it's still there, providing a sterling service for the central belt of Scotland taking people from Bathgate to Glasgow and Airdrie to Edinburgh. And given the rising passenger numbers, I would say it's been a success even if it takes an age when you hit the Glasgow Suburbs (possibly the only downside to the line).

Mind you, I've seen all sorts of against the borders railway arguments over the past few years, including somebody from Glasgow predicting that the Borders Railway would fail majorly on the Scottish Government unless it was built as a (mis)guided busway because that would allow better connectivity. Yes I do think that the termination in Tweedbank is a little short sighted, but given that it's designed to act as a hub station for now, and that the house prices along the route have hailed signs of improvement for the Borders already then I wouldn't hail this as a failure at all. And Scotland seems to have quite a good record for railway reopenings too - the Alloa route seems to be doing well already as well.

Edit, most of what I've been thinking has been said above now as well.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The fourteenth issue of the Border Railways e-newsletter talks about matters in Falahill. Has anyone any personal knowledge of this area and views on matters affected by the railway will be locally viewed.

 

[FalahillSummit]

Twitter page about Falahill and Borders Railway: Railway@FalahillSummit

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Twitter page about Falahill and Borders Railway: Railway@FalahillSummit

Strange as it may seem to relate, there are a few of us "computer and mass-technology illiterate" people who do not subscribe to Twitter and Facebook and the like...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

You don't need to 'subscribe' to Twitter in order to view that page - you'll still be able to access the content of it as an outsider.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
https://twitter.com/FalahillSummit should work

 

[fegguk]

I have posted some videos on youtube that some people might find interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFTvL-7aC4I

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Thanks for posting - saves me cluttering up the roads this week having a look to see the progress.

 

[onyxcrowle]

I read on the project site that track laying isn't far away. Anyone know where they are likely to start?

 

[swt_passenger]

I read on the project site that track laying isn't far away. Anyone know where they are likely to start?

They usually start somewhere that's rail connected, so that should narrow it down a bit...

Seriously though, that'll be the only practical way of delivering strings of long welded rail, and using the Balfour Beatty new track construction machine (like they did on Airdrie to Bathgate) would only make sense working south from the mainline connection.

 

[railjock]

They usually start somewhere that's rail connected, so that should narrow it down a bit...

Seriously though, that'll be the only practical way of delivering strings of long welded rail, and using the Balfour Beatty new track construction machine (like they did on Airdrie to Bathgate) would only make sense working south from the mainline connection.

I read somewhere that the first rails will be laid in the Bowshank tunnel.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You don't need to 'subscribe' to Twitter in order to view that page - you'll still be able to access the content of it as an outsider.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
https://twitter.com/FalahillSummit should work

Thanks for your information, but I tend not to even log onto anything connected with Facebook or Twitter as I do not wish to find my computer details suddenly hijacked by organisations who have ill intents and have been known to attack sites such as these.

This is why both my good lady wife and I will have no truck with internet banking.