Bantamzen
Established Member
Bigger than Halifax, bigger than Wakefield, bigger than Huddersfield, fair enough. But is it big enough to divert NPR for?
A direct line from Manchester to Leeds, just short of forty miles, passes relatively close to the centres of Oldham/ Huddersfield/ Brighouse/ Batley.
Manchester - Shipley - Leeds is knocking on fifty miles. Shorter if you tunnel it, but then you're dealing with Bradford's topography, which isn't ideal for trains (much like that of Sheffield).
Really, there's a question about what NPR/ HS3 is intended for. Is it about fast services between the two main conurbations in the north (Manchester and Leeds) or is it about linking in as many places as possible? Do we want one simple route or a dog-leg line that tries to tick as many boxes as possible? If Bradford, why not also Oldham and Brighouse? Where do you draw the line...
Because Bradford has been identified as a large city with surrounding area that might benefit from better connectivity, which might attract a few more businesses / government departments to locate there in future to generate more jobs. Its been clear for a while that NPR (sorry I don't ever see it as being a genuine HS line) is about more than just getting between Leeds & Manchester quicker. A bit like routing HS2 via Birmingham (well almost), it can kill two aspirations with one stone.
Saying all this if you want my honest opinion I don't ever seen it happening. Getting a brand new alignment through the Pennines is going to be vastly expensive, let alone getting across Bradford. I suspect that the upgrade will end up being a wiring of the Standege / Calder Valley and some further speed improvements along both.
Maybe, since the platforms at Foster Square/ Interchange are about half a mile apart, we could just do a Crossrail and have an entrance at both to the underground platforms for NPR - the double-ended stations are all the rage in London!
Well it would be a workable solution, but a cross-city link and a third station for Bradford? This forum would go into meltdown with rage.....
Leeds-Shipley has, I believe, a linespeed up to 90mph. I understand this was made possible by easing some of the track curves to make best use of the original four-track alignment. Reinstating the original four-track will therefore require a reduction in linespeed as the curves will tightened. To obtain the desired timings for NPR (actually 7 minutes for Leeds to Bradford), you would need an entirely new rail alignment and an average end-to-end speed of 120mph. The existing Leeds-Pudsey-Bradford line is also mostly four-track so doesn't need anywhere near the amount of tunnelling you believe is required. Being considerably shorter, it can also meet the desired timings at an average of 80mph, or 55mph for the 10 minute journey you suggest, which would obviously make it easier to use the existing alignment.
The easing of some curves was used its true, but that doesn't mean that any 4 tracking would mean losing these. For the most part the line has plenty of room either side for widening of the trackbed to keep curves to a minimum. And with the Pudsey line would not using the existing trackbed lead to similar problems with curves, whilst in some cases passing through more populated areas?
As for tunnelling, I am referring on how to get the line from the existing level at Laisterdyke down an even steeper ascent to an underground station in more or less the same distance.
Hang on, you want to construct a four-track tunnel alignment through the centre of Bradford and then terminate two of the tracks in the centre?! If you are going to that expense you may as well create the north-south connection for Aire-Calder services, if only to reduce the number of (underground?) platforms required at your new station.
Its one option, or simiply have 4 platforms that can be used as through and/or terminators. I can't see for a moment any proposal that effectively led to three stations in Bradford being accepted.
Sorry, I'm really confused now. You would keep Interchange, build a brand new station where the Court Centre is, and have a passenger link between them? Again, if you're going to the expense, why not have a single station?
Just a heads up, it is not my proposal to have the new station located close to The Broadway, this is the aspiration of Bradford Council. I am simply piggy-backing my ideas to theirs. Their idea would be to have the NPR approach from the south, dive under the city to a Central station then veer east and rise rapidly to Laisterdyke. Personally if it were possible a whole new station would be far preferable, and one that could link the Aire/Wharfe to the Calder & house the connections onto the NPR alignment. But even if somehow NPR came to be I can't honestly see a single station solution happening, so a new Central station taking the place of Forster Square & linking to the Interchange is the next best fit.
On this at least we agree - NPR should go through Bradford as it is by far the largest population centre between Leeds and Manchester. Huddersfield has a reasonable service to Leeds and Manchester already, shortly to be improved further by TPU.
As I said further up this comment, as much as I'd like to see it I simply cannot see the investment coming. Once the Daily Mail get hold of it & find out it doesn't serve Milton Keynes, all hell will break loose!!
(This of course a joke, and not meant in anyway to be derogatory towards Milton Keynes and it's citizens.)