Breich - Public Consultation on Station Closure

[PaulLothian]

I know Newpark station in what in now Livingston closed in 1959 which of course was before Beeching.

Somehow, I had never heard of Newpark. Very interesting!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

With this sort of proposal, the danger always is that a precedent could be set. Even if Breich should close, we remain cautious. If the government can close schools and hospitals, then why not railways?

I speak with my FoFNL hat on, here. Even apparently-purposeless, moribund old platforms can be used again. I'm no advocate of the 'build it and they will come' strategy, but sometimes, if you put a little effort into making an option more attractive for punters, you will get a lot back (e.g. NC500).

Not that I'm suggesting we do that with Breich. The trick is to limit closures as much as possible. Breich, Culrain, Altnabreac and Kildonan could all probably go. So could Teesside Airport. But we shouldn't go looking for stations to close, because that's a dangerous mindset to have. We've seen that before with Beeching. In the 1950s, lines were axed because they were unprofitable - but along came Beeching and Marples, and soon statistics were being fiddled to build roads and shut the railways.

So Breich should be allowed to shut, but we ought to be careful. Sometimes it is better to kill off a station so that we can justify more new ones (Abronhill, Bannockburn, Kirkliston and Halbeath, for example), but we shouldn't let the power of closure go to our heads.

There's probably a list of stations in Scotland that could probably be closed. Altnabreac and Culrain, for example, have probably fulfilled their purpose

I am well aware of the chance of precedent with matters of this nature, and the subsequent need for logic and proportion - the entire concept is the cornerstone of my degree

I never have, never will and was not here advocating a mad axeman approach, fiddling numbers, proactively searching for just-about-treading-water lines and stations to close, or feasting on the tears of those who become socially deprived through the termination of public transport provision.

However, it is an indictment to our railway network that we have utterly stupid situations such as at Polesworth, Briech, Pilning and Norton Bridge and allow it to continue. It's been a decade since Polesworth lost one the operational use of one of its platforms, and since then we've had one train a day at an impractical time stop in lieu; a situation that has manifested in a slightly different guise at Pilning. Norton Bridge took a decade of no actual access and a further remodelling rendering it absolutely dead to finally be called into question.

Some of the quieter stations on our network have, either by fair means or foul, outlived their use and have become utterly useless as a result (see those above). Others, as has been seen through the new WM franchise spec with Barlaston / Wedgwood, have the potential to be viable again; whilst even more, such as 99% of rural halts all over Britain, are not as great a burden and serve genuine economic and social use to their environs. These latter two sets should be promoted to make them even more useful and encourage the use of local rail (see the mass community involvement / marketing for the Devon and Cornwall branchlines).

It is also worth remembering that unexpected corners call for station closures - a few years ago the rail user group for the Barnstaple line called for closures of most of the intermediate stations on it to give a better service overall.

 

[thenorthern]

Somehow, I had never heard of Newpark. Very interesting!

It was on Murieston Road in Livingston where the road crosses the railway line.

Newpark however closed before the New Town (Livingston) (Development Corporation) Order 1962 came into place its about a mile west of Livingston South.

I think the first part of Livingston built was Craigshill as my grandfather ran The Tower bar there for a while which I know is the oldest pub in Livingston.

 

[thenorthern]

If anyone is interested here is the timetable from 2003 when 5 trains per day stopped at Breich.

https://web.archive.org/web/20030608090147/http://www.scotrail.co.uk:80/route12.pdf

The current service patten of 2 trains per day instead of the 5 per day one of which was on request started in December 2008.

I know there was a man from Breich who kept the station open in 1999 but I think he has now retired. There was something about Breich station in 2004 about it on BBC Radio 4.

West Lothian Council made this mention in a report in 2006

The report lists the 10 least used stations, with Breich being used by only 118
passengers a year. However, this must be a reflection on the very poor service, one
return trip a day, which makes rail travel unattractive. With the proposal for fast and
slow services, it should be possible for additional stops to be made at Breich on the
slow trains. Indeed, future developments in the Breich / Longridge / Heartlands area
make an expansion of Breich services highly desirable.

http://archive.nr.co.uk/browse docu...ultation responses/w/west lothian council.pdf

 

[PaulLothian]

In 1948, Breich appears to have had about 9 trains eastbound on a weekday, and 8 westbound. Quite a long way from a clock-face timetable. However the majority of trains did seem to stop at all stations, with only a few 'limited-stop' services.

http://timetableworld.com/book_viewer.php?id=4&section_id=1132 - see Timetable 87

This was a slight improvement over the pre-nationalisation timetable (http://timetableworld.com/book_viewer.php?id=7&section_id=1705 - Table 291), which showed 6 eastbound and 7 west-bound weekday departures.

 

[backontrack]

Breich genuinely sees to have no purpose. Should it become a railhead for Whitburn? No, because Armadale is closer. Or could it become the station for Forth? Well, no, because Forth isn't big enough and if its residents really wanted the train that much, they'd drive to Fauldhouse, anyway. The good burghers of Longridge and Stoneyburn are also much more likely to use either Fauldhouse or Addiewell. Who would want to use Breich, anyway? It's not even near Breich and that village itself couldn't justify a station.

As for the etymology of Breich, it seems that the local river is called Breich Water (it empties into the River Almond). Maybe the names of the station and village come from that.

 

[Altnabreac]

West Lothian Council seems to think, from its website, that the population is 209 (mid-2015 estimate).

A major issue is that rail services don't particularly take people to places they most want to go. The bus services will take you to the centre of Livingston, rather than a mile away.

That number on the Council site is an error. The 2011 Census figure was 398 for Breich and is likely to have gone up a little bit since then.

Doesn't change your general point though.

 

[Romilly]

Springfield had ten times the number of passengers as Breich in 14/15.

And with all the new houses being built in Springfield, its population is now probably just over 1000.

 

[thenorthern]

And with all the new houses being built in Springfield, its population is now probably just over 1000.

There are also no plans to electrify the line through Springfield station as Network Rail have admitted that if the Shotts line wasn't being electrified then they probably wouldn't have considered closing Breich.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Somehow, I had never heard of Newpark. Very interesting!

It was on the Caledonian Railway Cleland and Midcalder line. The station was opened on 9th July 1869 and closed on 24th September 1959.

 

[najaB]

There are also no plans to electrify the line through Springfield station...

There are plans to electrify Edinburgh to Aberdeen.

 

[W-on-Sea]

If anyone is interested here is the timetable from 2003 when 5 trains per day stopped at Breich.

https://web.archive.org/web/20030608090147/http://www.scotrail.co.uk:80/route12.pdf

The current service patten of 2 trains per day instead of the 5 per day one of which was on request started in December 2008.

I know there was a man from Breich who kept the station open in 1999 but I think he has now retired. There was something about Breich station in 2004 about it on BBC Radio 4.

West Lothian Council made this mention in a report in 2006

That timetable from 2003 shows just one train daily eastbound (0802 Mon-Fri, or 0904 Sat), and two trains a day westbound (1840 Mon-Fri, 1910 Sat, 2110 Mon-Sat by request). The 5 per day service must have ended earlier still

 

[Strathclyder]

Surely it's legally the Scottish Ministers. Saying it's Transport Scotland makes it seem the final decision can be taken by civil servants.

Well, I'm not well-versed on the intricacies of this particular subject, so I'm bound to be tripped up every so often fact-wise. Carntyne is right in that it's the Scottish Minister for Transport that has the final say on matters such as this. My previous post can henceforth be disregarded as uninformed twaddle...

 

[snowball]

As I understand it there's a difference between the Scottish and Westminster governments, in that in the Westminster government individual ministers have powers and responsibilities prescribed by law. So there are laws giving specific powers or responsibilities to specific ministers such as the SoS for Transport. Whereas I think in Scotland it's the Scottish Ministers as a body who have legal powers and duties.

No doubt in practice it would be the transport minister who decides transport matters, but legally it's a joint responsibility.

 

[The Conductor]

Altnabreac etc are rather different cases as there is no road access.In fact I believe Kildonan is the least used station on the Far North Line.
A curiosity about Breich is that it was the last staion on BR to reatin the 'Halt' suffix to its name.

 

[tbtc]

138 single journeys a year (for a station with six eastbound services a week and six westbound services a week)... so that's one person doing a return journey each week (i.e. 52x2 single journeys) plus a handful of enthusiasts buying a ticket there so that they can say that they bought a ticket to Breich?

How much worse would the figures have to be for some people to accept that it's never going to be worthwhile?

I wonder, how much does Denton and Reddish South cost to run trains to? Same goes for Newhaven Marine.

IIRC Denton and Reddish South are served by a unit that would be running ECS from Stockport to Newton Heath anyway (as it does Monday to Thursday). The marginal cost is just the fact that this duty is a little slower on a Friday as the unit is in service from Stockport to Stalybridge - it doesn't inconvenience any other passengers (as it's heading back to the depot at the end of the morning peak).

Today the unit left Stockport at 09:07 and was scheduled to get to Newton Heath at 09:51 after a tour of quiet lines around the outskirts of Manchester (it arrived a couple of minutes early this morning - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y68867/2017/06/27/advanced).

On a Friday it leaves Stockport at 09:22 and gets to Stalybridge at 09:43 (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y65092/2017/06/30/advanced)...

...then waits until 09:57 when it runs light back to the depot (arriving at 10:11 - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y68887/2017/06/30/advanced).

So the duty lasts twenty minutes longer on a Friday - I'll let someone else worry about the hourly rate of the two members of staff needed to do that and whether it covers the farebox - but it's probably fairly marginal stuff - as long as you don't need to spend anything on bringing the two stations up to scratch - Breich's problem is that it is on a line that requires that kind of investment due to electrification.

I don't know enough about Newhaven Marine.

Looking at newspaper articles some of the comments mention that Breich would have more passengers using it if more trains stopped there which would almost certainly be the case but I don't think it would ever reach levels that are anywhere near enough to justify the work that would be needed to improve Breich station.

Agreed - this kind of comment always comes up whenever something is threatened with closure - "if only we significantly increased the number of services then passenger numbers would be bound to go up" - which brings the question of how much of an improvement do you require and how long do you have a "trial" for?

Like you, I'm not convinced that Breich is ever going to have good enough figures, even if we inconvenience passengers at Shotts/ Livi South etc by delaying their existing services to stop at Breich.

Do we trust NR's figures ?

Yes - what alternative do you have in mind?

The bridge is obviously an issue, but raising the platform sounds like unnecessary gold plating

Easy to blame inconvenient expenses as "gold plating". It's 2017 on the big railway - we either have facilities that are suitable for people or we write things off.

Will this open up a Pandora's box that we don't want opening.

We should be able to accept the closure of a number of useless stations without scaremongering.

With this sort of proposal, the danger always is that a precedent could be set. Even if Breich should close, we remain cautious. If the government can close schools and hospitals, then why not railways?

I speak with my FoFNL hat on, here

I did wonder about the type of hat that you were wearing...

...first they came for Breich station but I did not speak out because I was not the person who made one return trip a week to use it...

 

[cactustwirly]

With this sort of proposal, the danger always is that a precedent could be set. Even if Breich should close, we remain cautious. If the government can close schools and hospitals, then why not railways?

I speak with my FoFNL hat on, here. Even apparently-purposeless, moribund old platforms can be used again. I'm no advocate of the 'build it and they will come' strategy, but sometimes, if you put a little effort into making an option more attractive for punters, you will get a lot back (e.g. NC500).

Not that I'm suggesting we do that with Breich. The trick is to limit closures as much as possible. Breich, Culrain, Altnabreac and Kildonan could all probably go. So could Teesside Airport. But we shouldn't go looking for stations to close, because that's a dangerous mindset to have. We've seen that before with Beeching. In the 1950s, lines were axed because they were unprofitable - but along came Beeching and Marples, and soon statistics were being fiddled to build roads and shut the railways.

So Breich should be allowed to shut, but we ought to be careful. Sometimes it is better to kill off a station so that we can justify more new ones (Abronhill, Bannockburn, Kirkliston and Halbeath, for example), but we shouldn't let the power of closure go to our heads.

There's probably a list of stations in Scotland that could probably be closed. Altnabreac and Culrain, for example, have probably fulfilled their purpose

Breich is sort of a special case (a bit like Norton Bridge, Polesworth etc) where the railway line is being upgraded, and the money needed to keep the station isn't justified by its usage.

£3 million is a lot to spend on a station that probably only one or two people use.

TBH Briech isn't that far away from, and better served by, Fauldhouse station.

There are a minority of stations where closure would be appropriate, such as Shippea Hill, Pilning & Chapelton. Where the usage is so low, and alternatives exist. Altnabreac, Finstock and Rawcliffe do not fit in this category, because they have a much higher usage or serve remote communities with no alternatives.

 

[takno]

I don't know enough about Newhaven Marine.

Newhaven Marine is a particularly stupid case because Newhaven Harbour is less than a quarter of a mile away. In fact at one time Marine was considered another platform in the same station. You also can't actually get on or off at Marine - the platform was fenced off because the canopy (which has been removed) started falling down.

On the other hand, the track and signalling would probably be retained for freight and train-turning purposes if the station was closed, and clearly no money is being on the passenger facilities. The cost of running a train in and back out again must be fairly minimal.

 

[Strathclyder]

As I understand it there's a difference between the Scottish and Westminster governments, in that in the Westminster government individual ministers have powers and responsibilities prescribed by law. So there are laws giving specific powers or responsibilities to specific ministers such as the SoS for Transport. Whereas I think in Scotland it's the Scottish Ministers as a body who have legal powers and duties.

No doubt in practice it would be the transport minister who decides transport matters, but legally it's a joint responsibility.

You learn something every day. Cheers for that.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A curiosity about Breich is that it was the last staion on BR to reatin the 'Halt' suffix to its name.

There still are two of these still open on the national network on the Looe Valley Line:-
Coombe Junction Halt
St Keyne Wishing Well Halt

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Upwey Wishing Well Halt ?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Upwey Wishing Well Halt ?

Opened 28th May 1905 and closed on 7th January 1957.

 

[Gathursty]

I would not miss Breich if it went. I am glad to have visited it and do recall the gravel texture extending onto the platforms, as is the case at Altnabreac and Scotscalder IIRC. I hope that the closure happens fairly quickly and is not held up by NIMBYs.

 

[edwin_m]

There still are two of these still open on the national network on the Looe Valley Line:-
Coombe Junction Halt
St Keyne Wishing Well Halt

Avoncliff is a halt, at least according to the sign on the platform (a newish one put there by the local user group I think).

 

[railjock]

Soon be as many posts on this thread as there are annual passengers at Breich.

 

[185143]

How soon after the 12 week consultation is the station likely to close?

 

[thenorthern]

That timetable from 2003 shows just one train daily eastbound (0802 Mon-Fri, or 0904 Sat), and two trains a day westbound (1840 Mon-Fri, 1910 Sat, 2110 Mon-Sat by request). The 5 per day service must have ended earlier still

Indeed your right I read it wrong.

 

[thenorthern]

Whats strange is that there doesn't seem to be a set criteria to close a station as for example Norton Bridge station had 4,000 passengers per year before the temporary closure but now its most likely going to close.

Etruria also had anywhere between 5000 and 12000 passengers per year before it closed. Sinfin Central also had over 1000 passengers per year before it closed.

Teeside Airport has had much lower passenger numbers every single year since the end of British Rail but as of yet there are no plans to close it.

 

[AngusH]

I can see keeping Teeside Airport open as a box ticking exercise:

"the airport has a station!"
"You can travel to the airport by train"

etc.

Not usefully of course...


Closing Breich seems logical, although presumably a large development of housing will be built nearby within a year of closure.

 

[AndyW33]

Or in the case of Teeside Airport, the railway may be expecting the airport operators, Peel, to pull the plug - there are only 3 flights a day now most days. A lot easier to close an airport station if there isn't an airport any longer - alternatively if the airport land is redeveloped, there might actually be customers for a station...