Brighton to Hove and...that's it! Is this the reason?

[Howardh]

1432 Brighton, arrives in Hove 1436 and goes no further. I can't see any purpose in running this virtually-empty train, even if it's come from somewhere else and reversed at Brighton I still can't fathom why it should just go to Hove - except that maybe it's using Hove as a terminal to reverse and go around the curve northwards? Even so....why??

Anyhow, can locals please fill me in, much appreciated!!

 

[Bishopstone]

The Hove shuttles generally connect into Victoria - West Coastway (via Haywards Heath) services.

 

[JonathanH]

The Hove shuttles generally connect into Victoria - West Coastway (via Haywards Heath) services.

...but seem not to do so quite as well in the reduced timetable.

 

[Howardh]

So it goes from Hove to Hayward's Heath (or similar) to connect; so what's so special about Hove, is that route well used, could it not "start" from further down the conurbation? Of course it's handy as pax in the Hove area can bypass Brighton.

 

[NSE]

No it terminates at Hove. It connects into the Littlehampton train from Haywards Heath allowing an almost additional direct train to Littlehampton

 

[Bishopstone]

So it goes from Hove to Hayward's Heath (or similar) to connect; so what's so special about Hove, is that route well used, could it not "start" from further down the conurbation? Of course it's handy as pax in the Hove area can bypass Brighton.

In non-Covid timetables, there’s a simple shuttle between Brighton and Hove, twice an hour, operated by 313s. That’s the totality of the journey: about as long as a trip on the Waterloo & City line!

The service exists to supplement the base 4tph between Brighton and West Coastway destinations (2x West Worthing stoppers, 1x Portsmouth Harbour, 1x Southampton), by connecting into Victoria-Littlehampton services which don’t call at Brighton, by virtue of using the curve between Preston Park and Hove.
It can be a well used service at certain times of day.

Currently, the Brighton-West Worthing stoppers aren’t running, and the small shacks in the greater Brighton conurbation are served by additional calls on the Victoria-Littlehamptons, which - as others have suggested - probably throws the connectional opportunities of the Hove shuttles out of kilter, though I’ve not been to that side of Brighton lately.

Lastly, you are correct: Hove is special, by virtue of not being Brighton.

 

[Howardh]

In non-Covid timetables, there’s a simple shuttle between Brighton and Hove, twice an hour, operated by 313s. That’s the totality of the journey: about as long as a trip on the Waterloo & City line!

The service exists to supplement the base 4tph between Brighton and West Coastway destinations (2x West Worthing stoppers, 1x Portsmouth Harbour, 1x Southampton), by connecting into Victoria-Littlehampton services which don’t call at Brighton, by virtue of using the curve between Preston Park and Hove.
It can be a well used service at certain times of day.

Currently, the Brighton-West Worthing stoppers aren’t running, and the small shacks in the greater Brighton conurbation are served by additional calls on the Victoria-Littlehamptons, which - as others have suggested - probably throws the connectional opportunities of the Hove shuttles out of kilter, though I’ve not been to that side of Brighton lately.

Lastly, you are correct: Hove is special, by virtue of not being Brighton.

So my single from Brighton to Hove would be quite unusual?! Just wanted to do the trip, from the Hove station walked across the cute bridge northwards to the park and that nice little cafe in the corner which was....closed grrr. Infrequent bus service on that main road so walked it back into Brighton, which I believe took me over the curve.

 

[yorksrob]

"The Cliftonville Spur", to give the curve its full name.

 

[Hassocks5489]

Ah, a service I use very frequently - either to make a connection at Brighton (usually into a northbound Thameslink) or just to nip into Brighton, generally for a boozing session at the Evening Star, like tonight In normal times, when the Brighton-bound shuttle is waiting on the platform and a Victoria-bound train arrives alongside, there is a very big transfer of passengers from one to the other. Even in these Covid times, there have been a handful of people making the journey - probably a higher proportion than normal starting at Hove rather than connecting. Likewise, Saturday evenings coming from Brighton tend to be very busy indeed, even very late (around midnight), with people connecting into westbound services. In fact, I've been on the last connecting train from Brighton many times (I think it's 0004), which connects into the last or second-last West Coastway departure from London, and it can be standing room only.

So my single from Brighton to Hove would be quite unusual?! Just wanted to do the trip, from the Hove station walked across the cute bridge northwards to the park and that nice little cafe in the corner which was....closed grrr. Infrequent bus service on that main road so walked it back into Brighton, which I believe took me over the curve.

Until recently, at the foot of the footbridge on the north side stood the former "north side" ticket office, an interesting wooden building, which was given Grade II listed status in 1992 (https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1280558) but which was subsequently dismantled and moved to Amberley Museum and Heritage Centre, without affecting its status as a listed building. So the city of Brighton and Hove now has a listed building which is about 30 miles away!

The lack of buses on that road (Old Shoreham Road) is surprising, but for the stretch you walked along the very frequent #7 route runs parallel to the south, on the other side of the railway, and is only a short walk away down one of the north-south streets - although direct routes are a bit thin on the ground (Montefiore Road would be best, about halfway between Hove and Brighton).

You would have crossed the Cliftonville Spur while walking past the school playing fields to the north. There is a slight leftward kink in the road just after it crosses.

 

[Howardh]

Ah, a service I use very frequently - either to make a connection at Brighton (usually into a northbound Thameslink) or just to nip into Brighton, generally for a boozing session at the Evening Star, like tonight In normal times, when the Brighton-bound shuttle is waiting on the platform and a Victoria-bound train arrives alongside, there is a very big transfer of passengers from one to the other. Even in these Covid times, there have been a handful of people making the journey - probably a higher proportion than normal starting at Hove rather than connecting. Likewise, Saturday evenings coming from Brighton tend to be very busy indeed, even very late (around midnight), with people connecting into westbound services. In fact, I've been on the last connecting train from Brighton many times (I think it's 0004), which connects into the last or second-last West Coastway departure from London, and it can be standing room only.

You are so lucky in Brighton with all the trains and buses, even in these Covid times the buses are running through the night. Compare and contrast with miserable Blackpool, where everything shuts down by half-eleven at best. And the pubs in Brighton, at leats the dozen I've been in, are up to scratch; The old Marine followed by pub-quiz in the Camelford followed by a stagger back into town. But that's another story!!

At least my question has been answered, it gets pax from the W > E line that would take the curve/spur into Brighton. So it's basically a shuttle, must be on a par with the Wrexham Central/General shuttle which did (still does??) a solo run occasionally; and the tiny Stourbridge shuttle.

 

[Hassocks5489]

You are so lucky in Brighton with all the trains and buses, even in these Covid times the buses are running through the night. Compare and contrast with miserable Blackpool, where everything shuts down by half-eleven at best. And the pubs in Brighton, at leats the dozen I've been in, are up to scratch; The old Marine followed by pub-quiz in the Camelford followed by a stagger back into town. But that's another story!!

At least my question has been answered, it gets pax from the W > E line that would take the curve/spur into Brighton. So it's basically a shuttle, must be on a par with the Wrexham Central/General shuttle which did (still does??) a solo run occasionally; and the tiny Stourbridge shuttle.

I have an Annual season ticket/Gold Card to Worthing, but I always select Brighton as the origin station instead of Hove as it is the same fare and gives greater flexibility. More importantly, with the Gold Card I buy an Annual B&H PLUSBUS. Bizarrely, this is only just over half the price of the equivalent bus-only annual ticket sold by B&H Bus Company, a 12-month CitySaver (£372.00 versus £677.50)!

 

[Howardh]

I have an Annual season ticket/Gold Card to Worthing, but I always select Brighton as the origin station instead of Hove as it is the same fare and gives greater flexibility. More importantly, with the Gold Card I buy an Annual B&H PLUSBUS. Bizarrely, this is only just over half the price of the equivalent bus-only annual ticket sold by B&H Bus Company, a 12-month CitySaver (£372.00 versus £677.50)!

I was looking for a local bus and train combination, to cover the area that the bus Network Saver does, but couldn't find one. No worries, the network saver is a steal at under £6, and is a dream ride over the cliffs towards Newhaven. I reckon that bus journey Brighton > Seaford beats the train...not often I say that!!

 

[AlbertBeale]

I seem to remember in the local media down there some years back that (besides making the connection with the London to West Coastway service) the idea of the Btn-Hove shuttles was to increase the tph to a turn-up-and-go frequency to help cut local road traffic. Not so many years back they also introduced shuttles on the Brighton-Lewes route to supplement the trains that run beyond Lewes to Seaford or Eastbourne.

Now what I'd really like would be the re-intrduction after a generation or two [I'm sure I remember them existing when I lived down there half a century ago] of a West Coastway - East Coastway through train. (Limited to one 4-coach unit, of course, using only platform 3 at Brighton, to give access to both turn-offs.) There are times when I (and some others from around Falmer etc) would/did appreciate a link from Hove - or maybe a bit further west - via Brighton, at least as far as Lewes. If the existing Brighton-Lewes shuttles are only 4 coaches, then maybe that and the Btn-Hove shuttle could be merged into one longer through shuttle?

 

[30907]

There are times when I (and some others from around Falmer etc) would/did appreciate a link from Hove - or maybe a bit further west - via Brighton, at least as far as Lewes. If the existing Brighton-Lewes shuttles are only 4 coaches, then maybe that and the Btn-Hove shuttle could be merged into one longer through shuttle?

AFAIK all EC and WC (-way being a newfangled 80s addition) are 4 cars max anyway so that's not an issue.
But apart from the platforming issue at Brighton, any through working has to cross the whole layout, and it's therefore easier for EC trains to terminate in the high numbered platforms.

 

[AlbertBeale]

AFAIK all EC and WC (-way being a newfangled 80s addition) are 4 cars max anyway so that's not an issue.
But apart from the platforming issue at Brighton, any through working has to cross the whole layout, and it's therefore easier for EC trains to terminate in the high numbered platforms.

Ah yes - those new-fangled '80s! (I last actually lived in Brighton in the '70s.) Yes - clearly routing them across the whole station could be a problem. But still - be convenient to have them [back].

 

[Fincra5]

I seem to remember in the local media down there some years back that (besides making the connection with the London to West Coastway service) the idea of the Btn-Hove shuttles was to increase the tph to a turn-up-and-go frequency to help cut local road traffic. Not so many years back they also introduced shuttles on the Brighton-Lewes route to supplement the trains that run beyond Lewes to Seaford or Eastbourne.

Now what I'd really like would be the re-intrduction after a generation or two [I'm sure I remember them existing when I lived down there half a century ago] of a West Coastway - East Coastway through train. (Limited to one 4-coach unit, of course, using only platform 3 at Brighton, to give access to both turn-offs.) There are times when I (and some others from around Falmer etc) would/did appreciate a link from Hove - or maybe a bit further west - via Brighton, at least as far as Lewes. If the existing Brighton-Lewes shuttles are only 4 coaches, then maybe that and the Btn-Hove shuttle could be merged into one longer through shuttle?

Used to be something like Seaford-Littlehampton Stoppers via Brighton (p3) but they were notorious for being a pain. If they were late they could cock up services into/ out of Brighton (and V/V)

 

[paul1609]

Basically in the non-covid off peak timetable there is no direct service between Littlehampton and Brighton.
Several years ago in order to give 2 tph from the West Coastway (Littlehampton) to Victoria the Littlehampton to Brighton stopping train was abolished and the Hove to Brighton Shuttles were increased to half hourly to provide a connection that gave the same journey time as the through Littlehampton to Brighton Service.

Used to be something like Seaford-Littlehampton Stoppers via Brighton (p3) but they were notorious for being a pain. If they were late they could cock up services into/ out of Brighton (and V/V)

I used to come home on the all stations Portsmouth Harbour to Seaford via Littlehampton and Brighton service. When the Electrostars were introduced the announcements of the 46 stations used to take longer than the time between stations on the Portsmouth to Chi section and used to get progressively out of sync till it crashed!

 

[zwk500]

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/West-Sussex-Connectivity-Modular-Strategic-Study.pdf

This document may be of interest - in particular Page 8:

"Cross-Brighton services - the Brighton Main Line and both Coastway lines benefits from a high frequency service. There are no robust train paths for cross-Brighton services without sacrificing existing high-demand services. We do not believe that would be an acceptable outcome."

 

[AlbertBeale]

Used to be something like Seaford-Littlehampton Stoppers via Brighton (p3) but they were notorious for being a pain. If they were late they could cock up services into/ out of Brighton (and V/V)

Aha - so at least I wasn't dreaming!

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/West-Sussex-Connectivity-Modular-Strategic-Study.pdf

This document may be of interest - in particular Page 8: "Cross-Brighton services - the Brighton Main Line and both Coastway lines benefits from a high frequency service. There are no robust train paths for cross-Brighton services without sacrificing existing high-demand services. We do not believe that would be an acceptable outcome."

Thanks - of great interest! I understand about the problem of cross-Brighton services, given the current intensity of Brighton Main Line services; but I still wish...

 

[Hassocks5489]

During that period in the 2000s (and possibly 1990s) when East Coastway<>West Coastway services ran, I think the usual working was Seaford<>West Worthing (all stations), but a few certainly worked beyond there to Littlehampton/Portsmouth.

 

[AlbertBeale]

During that period in the 2000s (and possibly 1990s) when East Coastway<>West Coastway services ran, I think the usual working was Seaford<>West Worthing (all stations), but a few certainly worked beyond there to Littlehampton/Portsmouth.

Well - I didn't know they'd run that recently (I never noticed them in the last 20 years). I think I remember them from around half a century ago - I'd assumed they'd disappeared long long ago.

 

[317 forever]

In non-Covid timetables, there’s a simple shuttle between Brighton and Hove, twice an hour, operated by 313s. That’s the totality of the journey: about as long as a trip on the Waterloo & City line!

The service exists to supplement the base 4tph between Brighton and West Coastway destinations (2x West Worthing stoppers, 1x Portsmouth Harbour, 1x Southampton), by connecting into Victoria-Littlehampton services which don’t call at Brighton, by virtue of using the curve between Preston Park and Hove.
It can be a well used service at certain times of day.

Currently, the Brighton-West Worthing stoppers aren’t running, and the small shacks in the greater Brighton conurbation are served by additional calls on the Victoria-Littlehamptons, which - as others have suggested - probably throws the connectional opportunities of the Hove shuttles out of kilter, though I’ve not been to that side of Brighton lately.

Lastly, you are correct: Hove is special, by virtue of not being Brighton.

It's full name according to the locals is "Hove actually"

 

[Howardh]

It's full name according to the locals is "Hove actually"

Ah, now I know what the football team's initials stand for, B & H A!!

 

[WesternLancer]

Well - I didn't know they'd run that recently (I never noticed them in the last 20 years). I think I remember them from around half a century ago - I'd assumed they'd disappeared long long ago.

Yes, I think they went back in the day, but came back more recently as per the post, and then went again when too much conjestion caused the problems mentioned.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Yes, I think they went back in the day, but came back more recently as per the post, and then went again when too much conjestion caused the problems mentioned.

Ah well - once we get the new Brighton Main Line via Uckfield and Lewes (or via Falmer at least), and an extra platform or two on the high-number side at Brighton to take those trains, then the station throat will have a bit less congestion and the Littlehampton-Seaford through trains can be reinstated! [If I were an emoticon sort of person, I'd use one...]

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

Could anyone advise if the 313s are in sevice on the Weekend's cheers for any info l know 377s were mainly used weekends recently cheers

 

[LA50041]

Could anyone advise if the 313s are in sevice on the Weekend's cheers for any info l know 377s were mainly used weekends recently cheers

313’s still on west Worthing and on Seafords at weekends except when Brighton are at home when it’s mostly 377.
Saturday there are 313’s on Portsmouth & Southsea services. About 8 diagrams I think in current timetables

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

313’s still on west Worthing and on Seafords at weekends except when Brighton are at home when it’s mostly 377.
Saturday there are 313’s on Portsmouth & Southsea services. About 8 diagrams I think in current timetables

Cheers still need one 313 for haulage can arrange a trip down on a Saturday hoping it will be out much obliged

 

[sussexbythesea]

Cheers still need one 313 for haulage can arrange a trip down on a Saturday hoping it will be out much obliged

Worth mentioning that the West Worthing services are not running due to the COVID-19 reduced timetable. Brighton/Seafords are usually 100% 313s, as well as the Hove Shuttle (Brighton-Hove-Brighton etc). Further afield, 313s also operate Littlehampton - Portsmouth & S/S and Littlehampton/Barnham - Bognor