British railways seat legroom.

[MCR247]

I see that I has a lot of legroom from the ' in front, but the ' doesn't have much legroom from the m. I presume the I is sitting in a GW HST seat and the ' is in a XC counterpart. I'll be right back with a ruler to see how far it is....

 

[WillPS]

Dear Justin,
The reason people are not reading what you are writing is that everything you write is predictably dull and repetitive.

 

[Skimble19]

Gotta agree with that..! ^^

Honestly, Justin, this isn't (note the bold) going to get you anymore hits on your website purely because nobody is going to be searching for it, and you wont find anyone posting about your site on here either..!

 

[Justin Smith]

I'd have thought you would have an interest in the number of coaches a train is formed of as that defines how many seats the consist can contain. You've mentioned before about the possibility of adding coaches instead of changing the density of the seating in a coach before? Surely the two are related ?

Sorry, breakdown in communication, I meant getting the numbers of the coaches, as opposed to the number of coaches in the train.
As I said, I'm not interested in that kind of thing myself, but if others are that's fine by me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Dear Justin,
The reason people are not reading what you are writing is that everything you write is predictably dull and repetitive.

I've been called a lot in my life, but never, never, dull or predictable.

 

[jon0844]

You weren't, he said dull and repetitive!

 

[Templecombe]

i'm 6 foot tall and theres enough room for me
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Dear Justin,
The reason people are not reading what you are writing is that everything you write is predictably dull and repetitive.

dam thats cold

 

[Skimble19]

You weren't, he said dull and repetitive!

And quite right he was..!

 

[Justin Smith]

Got some more rolling stock legroom dimensions today, and very interesting it is. I have added all this to the first post.

Class 158 East Midland Trains (refurbished)
Standard = 29" / Priority = 31+" / First = N/A

Class 220/221 Voyager Cross Country
Standard = 28" / Priority = 33" / First = ?

Class 222 Meridian East Midland Trains
Standard = 29+" / Priority = 31+" / First = 36+"

Class 390 Pendolino Virgin
Standard = 29 to 30" / Priority = 31+" / First = 35 to 36"

For modern trains all the legroom is reasonable to good, apart from Voyagers, obviously.

The refurbished EMT C158s are arguably deserved of special praise because the original C158s were so poor as far as legroom on medium/long distance stock is concerned. EMT can go to the top of the class as far as I'm concerned for resisting the temptation to pack as many seats in as possible. Some standard seats actually had 30" of leg room, I had to keep checking I wasn't actually in the priority seats ! The only thing I dislike are the high backed seats, but overall, very good.
Although the joined up high backed seats and the wide window pillars on the Meridians tends to make them a bit claustrophobic the leg room is fine, it's significantly better than a Voyager, so credit to MML who, I assume, specified the seat spacings.
Voyagers ? Standard seat legroom, for a long distance train, is poor, but "priority" leg room is very generous indeed. It really is no surprise that those "in the know" always go for the priority seats. The disparity between normal standard and priority standard is a huge 5".
Pendolinos ? They may have ridiculously small windows but nobody can complain about the leg room. Whether the seat spacing was forced on Virgin or not, the legroom, for modern stock, is generous. Note, I'm unbiased in my view here, and not afraid to publicise data, good or bad.

All this throws into sharp focus just how bad the Mk4 Mallard stock is for (standard) legroom, at 27". When I get a chance I'll recheck that data, but it isn't going to be that far out, at best it'll only be the same as a Voyager.

 

[WillPS]

What a thoroughly useful piece of investigative research. Quite what these are supposed to prove other than what was already known (good legroom/ok legroom/bad legroom) I don't know.

FYI - the EMT brief with the 158s was to get in as many seats as possible.

 

[jon0844]

EMT can go to the top of the class as far as I'm concerned for resisting the temptation to pack as many seats in as possible. Some standard seats actually had 30" of leg room, I had to keep checking I wasn't actually in the priority seats ! The only thing I dislike are the high backed seats, but overall, very good.

Very nice. How do I get to go on a 158 to go to work tomorrow?

With an airline, I have a choice of carriers. For my commute, can you explain how I benefit from your research and what the point of it is/was?

 

[rail-britain]

Class 158 East Midland Trains (refurbished)
Standard = 29" / Priority = 31+" / First = N/A

Class 220/221 Voyager Cross Country
Standard = 28" / Priority = 33" / First = ?

Class 222 Meridian East Midland Trains
Standard = 29+" / Priority = 31+" / First = 36+"

Class 390 Pendolino Virgin
Standard = 29 to 30" / Priority = 31+" / First = 35 to 36"

I suspect there is actually a minimum standard in use, from the info you have accrued thus far :
Standard = 28"
Priority = 31"
First Class = 35"

What you might be better doing is sending a request direct to the Rolling Stock Companies (as there are fewer of them than TOCs)
Simply request a summary by train type

Once you have confirmed the minimum standard then you would not need to provide a comprehensive list, but simply a list of rolling stock that exceeds this
However, there would be no guarantee to anyone travelling that this would be the type of train they are travelling on

Equally, I have searched all the enquiries I have received since 2001 and not one person has asked about legroom!
However, the common question is more would First Class be more suitable to someone with long legs, large build, etc

 

[Justin Smith]

Since there are a number of websites giving data on airline seat pitch I think it's about time the seat legroom on British railways rolling stock (coaches, carriages, EMUs and DMUs) was put on the internet. It may even discourage the inexorable and pernicious reduction in legroom on most British rolling stock.....
THE DATA BELOW IS NOT THE SEAT PITCH, it's the distance from the rear of the seat (parallel with the seat cushion) to the point on the rear of the seat in front at the height where one's knees would normally be (see linked graphic at bottom). The info is only for airline type seating, and from the surface of the rear cushion, not pressing it right in !

Note, a few seat spacings are variable (some more than others.....) but the figures still give a meaningful idea of how cramped, or not, you're likely to be. Personally I'm unhappy with less than 28" (of legroom that is), but even that isn't exactly roomy, 29" or more is OK.
I was surprised at how much difference one inch can make.
(Haven't I heard that before somewhere ?)

Class 142 (railbus) Northern Rail (Bench type seats)
Standard = 26 to 27" (poor) / Priority = ? / First = N/A

Class 144 (railbus) Northern Rail (High backed Richmond seats)
Standard = 26" (poor) / Priority = 32" / First = N/A

Class 150 Northern Rail and Arriva Wales (refurbished)
Standard = 26 to 27" (poor) / Priority = ? / First = N/A

Class 153 Northern Rail (both unrefurbished and refurbished)
Standard = 26 to 27" (poor) / Priority = ? / First = N/A

Class 156 Northern Rail
Standard = 26 to 28" (poor) / Priority = ? / First = N/A

Class 158 Northern Rail (non refurbished)
Standard = 25 to 26" (very poor) / Priority = 32" / First = N/A

Class 158 East Midland Trains (refurbished)
Standard = 27 to 29" / Priority = 31"+ / First = N/A

Class 170 Trans Pennine
Standard = 27 to 28" / Priority = 31" / First = ?

Class 175 Arriva Trains Wales
Standard = 30 to 31" (good) / Priority = 34" (good) / First = N/A

Class 180 Hull Trains
Standard = 34" (excellent) / Priority = 35" (excellent) / First = 34"+

Class 185 Trans Pennine Express
Standard = 29 to 30" / Priority = 33" / First = 34"

Class 220/221 Voyager Cross Country Trains
Standard = 28" / Priority = 33" / First = 36"

Class 222 Meridian East Midland Trains
Standard = 29+" / Priority = 31+" / First = 36+"

Class 333 Northern Rail
Standard = 26 to 27" (poor) / Priority = ? / First = N/A

Class 373 Eurostar
Standard = 29 to 30" / Priority = ? / First = ?

Class 390 Pendolino Virgin Trains
Standard = 29 to 30" / Priority = 31+" / First = 35 to 36"

HST Cross Country Trains
Standard = 26 to 27" * (very poor) / Priority = 31+" / First = ?

HST East Coast Trains
Standard = 27" * (poor) / Priority = ? / First = 36"

HST East Midland Trains
Standard = 29 to 30" / Priority = ? / First = 38+"

IC225 (electric) Mk4 coach East Coast Trains (Mallard refurbished)
Standard = 27" * (poor) / Priority = 32" / First = 37"

* The above figures are so poor (for a long distance Inter City train) I have rechecked them 2 or 3 times and, incredibly, they really are only 27", or less..........