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Buses that the Pacer is based on?

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thenorthern

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This may seem a strange question but what are or where the buses that the pacer is based on and are they still used today? Also what where the rail chassis that the bus body is attached to derived from?

Cheers to anyone who can help.
 
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Ash Bridge

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This may seem a strange question but what are or where the buses that the pacer is based on and are they still used today? Also what where the rail chassis that the bus body is attached to derived from?

Cheers to anyone who can help.

Think the bodywork is based on the Leyland National although wider than the bus version. The rail chassis it is mounted upon was I think developed from the BR High Speed Freight Vehicle (HSFV).
 
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61653 HTAFC

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The bodyshells of 141s and 142s are based on Leyland Nationals, but 143s and 144s were loosely based on a bus from Alexander, not sure which though. I don't think the bus version sold many more than the train version, despite being considerably more modern than the National, which was already starting to be phased out by the time the pacers entered squadron service.
 

Strathclyder

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The chassis can trace it's roots back to the High Speed Freight Vehicle (HSFV), developed by the British Rail Research Division in the late 60s.
 

507 001

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The HSFV can trace some of its suspension back to the APT.

So in a sort of roundabout way, we have the APT project to thank for pacers!
 

driver9000

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Aren't the Class 153s related to buses in some ways as well?

The 155 was built by Leyland at the Workington factory using National body panels.

A mk1 coach was also rebuilt by Leyland using National parts.
 
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47802

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I remember my local bus company which was part of NBC by then getting these new in 73, I had to travel to school on them everyday wasn't a great fan of them, first of the lower floor style bus, I preferred the previous generation of single decker's with the high floor like a coach, and what was with the American styling?
 

Ash Bridge

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The 155 was built by Leyland at the Workington factory using National body panels.

A mk1 coach was also rebuilt by Leyland using National parts.

Yes indeed, that sounds like a much more accurate description of their construction, with the same also applying to the Pacer units, as they are considerably longer and wider than a normal bus body, i.e. Not just simply a bus body stuck on a rail chassis
 

talltim

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The HSFV also helped with development of the chassis of the Speedlink long wheelbase 4 wheel airbraked wagons, OAA/OBA/OCA, VAA/VBA/VCA/VDA, SAA,SPA and possibly the VGA, although I think that was also influenced by foreign 4 wheeled wagons as well. However these had conventional W-irons. The coil sprung primary suspension pedestal unit concept was also used on many 4 wheeled private owned wagons, manufacturers including BSC (four springs) and Gloucester (Floating Axle, with two springs)
 

thenorthern

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I wonder if when the pacer was built BREL and Hunslet-Barclay ever thought that the pacer would last this long. I also wonder if the designers of the HSFV ever knew that their product would later be used to make passenger rolling stock.

Can anyone ever see a new generation of railbus ever being built in this country?
 

Wyvern

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The HSFV can trace some of its suspension back to the APT.
So in a sort of roundabout way, we have the APT project to thank for pacers!
The other way round slightly. The first HSFV was the testbed for fundamental research into wheel/rail interactions and vehicle dynamics from first principles. It was gound breaking work and HSFV1 should have had pride of place at the NRM but it wasnt pretty enough.

In the early sixties few freight trains exceeded forty mph and spent hours sitting in loops letting expresses go by. Few expresses exceeded eighty mph - at 90 you really knew about it. The drive was on for long distance fast freights that could keep up with the passengers but there were too many derailments.

Hence the dynamics lab at the research centre in Derby. I joined just as initial work had been done on ideal wheel profiles and one of the first things I was shown was the test rig.

Next step was to determine the dynamics in six degrees of freedom of four-wheeled chassis. One outcome was that instability became worse with longer wheelbases hence the increasing use of bogies even on goods wagons. The upshot was a wagon chassis that could be variously loaded to test its suspension - HSFV1 which achieved 140mph on the test rig.

There were subsequent HSFV derivatives but, more importantly the fundamental principle brought to light form Chapter One of today's railway engineers textbook.

It have always wondered what the dept thought of being asked to design a four wheeled railcar, but I guess they had their arms twisted. Politics you know. But the rideworthiness of the Pacers is nor more or no less than you can expect.

Incidentally HSFV1 still exists at the Coventry Electric Railway Museum and it has recently been announced that, in time, it will go to Shildon to join the APT
 

GrimsbyPacer

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I think they were 4 Railbus prototypes built for BR before Pacer classes 140-144 and some still survive and they were all single cars, one is in use at Alnmouth. The newest railbus I know of in the UK is the class 139 used by London Midland on the Stourbridge branchline built by Perry People Movers who have some similar rail buses.

Edit; I also discovered there were plans for a scenic pacer with a vista dome style roof like US trains have, this was planned for hilly rural routes.
 
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40129

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I think they were 4 Railbus prototypes built for BR before Pacer classes 140-144 and some still survive and they were all single cars, one is in use at Alnmouth.

One of the prototypes (RB04 I think) is preserved at the Telford Steam Railway. From what I remember from riding it a couple of years back it seems to have been designed so that passengers could enter at the front and pay the driver as on a conventional bus - the driving cab being centrally positioned between two, very narrow entrance doors (one on each side) - and exit at the center
 

driver9000

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What was the class 140 like, it was a bit before my time so I never saw it.

It's now awaiting restoration at the Keith and Dufftown railway. I've never been on it but I believe the interior is similar to the 141.
 

Strathclyder

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A shot of 140001's interior (bottom right):
class%20140%20Leeds%20Bradford.jpg
 
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