CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Andy Pacer]

Pembroke dock still isn't cleared for 197s, so it's either a 150 or 153 on that service

I assume the same applies to Fishguard which the unit you attach to goes to.

 

[Western 52]

I assume the same applies to Fishguard which the unit you attach to goes to.

197s are cleared to Fishguard Harbour and do work some services there.

 

[Jez]

I believe Pembroke Dock is booked for pairs of 153s but 150s do turn up to cover from time to time still



Travelling on a Northern 195 this morning. The seats are definitely a lot less comfortable than the 197s. I think we got a better deal with the 197s overall IMO.

 

[Caaardiff]

The 0641 on Saturdays is booked a 150.

 

[BillStampy]

Currently taking the opportunity to do a Maesteg round trip aboard 197117 to have an hour in the standard plus seating, it's fairly rough where I'm sat and the brakes were very loud when screeching into Pencoed. Not the best with people near me trying to have a nap!

 

[Lurcheroo]

Travelling on a Northern 195 this morning. The seats are definitely a lot less comfortable than the 197s. I think we got a better deal with the 197s overall IMO

I’m more than happy to admit that the 197’s are far from perfect and in some ways a downgrade on old stock, but those criticisms have to be balanced with the acknowledgment of the fact that they could have been (and almost were) much worse.

 

[Jez]

I rode a 197 on the Conwy Valley today as far as Betws-y-Coed. On the return I was above the bogies and it was certainly a lot more noticeable the ride quality on this line. The down journey set in the middle of the train was perfectly fine.

I alighted at Glan Conwy on return so I could photograph the amazing views. However I think I underestimated how long a walk it was to Llandudno Junction as the next train obviously wasn't for nearly 3 hours !

 

[childwallblues]

I believe Pembroke Dock is booked for pairs of 153s but 150s do turn up to cover from time to time still



Travelling on a Northern 195 this morning. The seats are definitely a lot less comfortable than the 197s. I think we got a better deal with the 197s overall IMO.

That is your opinion I think it depends on how far you travel on them. I have found the 197 most uncomfortable after about 20 miles. When I travel on the Borderlands Line I avoid the 197s much prefering the 230 which is much more comfortable and something very different.

 

[Jez]

That is your opinion I think it depends on how far you travel on them. I have found the 197 most uncomfortable after about 20 miles. When I travel on the Borderlands Line I avoid the 197s much prefering the 230 which is much more comfortable and something very different.

To be fair.i did put IMO on my post

I have travelled Neath to Manchester a few times on a 197 and found the seats perfectly fine.

 

[Russel]

After using a few 197s now, I've come to the conclusion that the two car sets should never have been ordered with the giant catering cupboard, it's such a waste of space, on par with the train managers office on the 350s and will probably see as much use...

What was wrong with just sticking a trolley in the vestibule, as has happened on regional routes for years now?

 

[tomoufc]

?

Sorry, I was referring to a TfW Facebook image which showed increasing capacity on the Marches. I couldn’t get it to load here.

 

[Topological]

Sorry, I was referring to a TfW Facebook image which showed increasing capacity on the Marches. I couldn’t get it to load here.

On a technicality, I think it is correct.

Not as many 2-car 197s on the Manchester trains as there were 2-car 175s. The Mk4, when they run, definitely have more seats than anything that ran in their path.

The issue for me is that we have been promised 5-car 197s and that has not happened, plus it is only the last month or so where there has not been regular 2-cars on the Manchester services. We still see 2-cars substituting for the Mk4s.

It is not fully clear what prevents 3-cars as a minimum on ALL Manchester services (either as 3-car or 2x4-car taking one of the 2-car that would have attached to one of the 3-cars that does run). It feels like there are issues with 197s that are not being divulged.

The 05:38 from Cardiff arrives in Manchester very full, and there always seem to be people waiting for the 09:30 back south. I cannot think that really justifies 2-car unless it is an excuse. Even the day they did use a 3-car it was full (though not standing) after Nantwich.

 

[Jamesrob637]

So will 5 car to Manchester be starting next week at the timetable change?

 

[sd0733]

So will 5 car to Manchester be starting next week at the timetable change?

No. There's been more proving run yet.

 

[Caaardiff]

The issue for me is that we have been promised 5-car 197s and that has not happened, plus it is only the last month or so where there has not been regular 2-cars on the Manchester services. We still see 2-cars substituting for the Mk4s.

That's because more 3 cars have been delivered recently. It all takes time, there's been delays and theres been issues with 197 reliability, no secret has been made about that.

From what I've seen when there's a Mk4 shortage they tend to be covered more by 3 cars 197s than by 2 cars.

 

[sd0733]

197124 now at Chester, should be the next to enter service.

 

[Lurcheroo]

After using a few 197s now, I've come to the conclusion that the two car sets should never have been ordered with the giant catering cupboard, it's such a waste of space, on par with the train managers office on the 350s and will probably see as much use...

What was wrong with just sticking a trolley in the vestibule, as has happened on regional routes for years now?

Personally, I think that it’s not a bad idea. They’re supposed to be long distance units so a better catering service would always be welcomed.

But if it ends up being unused then it will be a waste of space (and money).

I could see arguments for only having put them in the 3cars but then some 4 car long distance services would go without. Hard one to balance as 2 and 4 car service are spot on for many TFW routes.

Obviously goes without saying that there are no vestibules on 197’s and having the trolley blocking passenger doors is never great either.

 

[Jez]

On the 1415 Crewe to Milford Service. Noticed it was 6 cars at Crewe before departure but they detached the back 3. Did someone think with this service due to split at Whitland they would send it as 2 units but realised 197s are not yet cleared for Pembroke Dock yet? I wonder what will happen. Maybe a set swap at Cardiff to a Sprinter which will divide at Whitland? . Or just send a 153 from Whitland to Pembroke. The info screens are off and no manual announcements.

Nice opportunity to go Crewe to Chester a line I've only been on once in the past I think.

 

[Lurcheroo]

On the 1415 Crewe to Milford Service. Noticed it was 6 cars at Crewe before departure but they detached the back 3. Did someone think with this service due to split at Whitland they would send it as 2 units but realised 197s are cleared for Pembroke Dock yet? I wonder what will happen. Maybe a set swap at Cardiff to a Sprinter which will divide at Whitland? . The info screens are off and no manual announcements.

Nice opportunity to go Crewe to Chester a line I've only been on once in the past I think.

Nice little jaunt across to Chester, Beaton castle can look quite nice in the right light.

 

[Andy Pacer]

On the 1415 Crewe to Milford Service. Noticed it was 6 cars at Crewe before departure but they detached the back 3. Did someone think with this service due to split at Whitland they would send it as 2 units but realised 197s are not yet cleared for Pembroke Dock yet? I wonder what will happen. Maybe a set swap at Cardiff to a Sprinter which will divide at Whitland? . Or just send a 153 from Whitland to Pembroke. The info screens are off and no manual announcements.

Nice opportunity to go Crewe to Chester a line I've only been on once in the past I think.

153303 and 153909 allocated Whitland - Pembroke Dock

 

[Jez]

Nice little jaunt across to Chester, Beaton castle can look quite nice in the right light.

I went through Chester yesterday also. But came in from Manchester direction and out towards North Wales.

I have to say I'm finding this 197 very comfortable. Both seats and temperature

153303 and 153909 allocated Whitland - Pembroke Dock

Thank you.

Can see the screens at Wrexham are still saying it will divide !

Lucky escape from this being a Sprinter then as usually this one is on a Sunday.

On a technicality, I think it is correct.

Not as many 2-car 197s on the Manchester trains as there were 2-car 175s. The Mk4, when they run, definitely have more seats than anything that ran in their path.

The issue for me is that we have been promised 5-car 197s and that has not happened, plus it is only the last month or so where there has not been regular 2-cars on the Manchester services. We still see 2-cars substituting for the Mk4s.

It is not fully clear what prevents 3-cars as a minimum on ALL Manchester services (either as 3-car or 2x4-car taking one of the 2-car that would have attached to one of the 3-cars that does run). It feels like there are issues with 197s that are not being divulged.

The 05:38 from Cardiff arrives in Manchester very full, and there always seem to be people waiting for the 09:30 back south. I cannot think that really justifies 2-car unless it is an excuse. Even the day they did use a 3-car it was full (though not standing) after Nantwich.

Nice to see more 3 cars definitely

Also on the North Wales coast yesterday there was a mixture of 2, 3 and 4 cars. I ended up on both the 09xx and 10xx departures from Manchester at various stages on the north Wales coast and both were incredibly busy after Chester. Full and standing. I think more than 2 cars is required on most routes. Even the Conwy Valley line was fairly busy (but nowhere near as busy as the coast services obviously) but a 3 car there wouldn't be out of place as its very popular with tourists.

 

[Russel]

How many 197s are still to be delivered/accepted?

 

[Caaardiff]

On the 1415 Crewe to Milford Service. Noticed it was 6 cars at Crewe before departure but they detached the back 3. Did someone think with this service due to split at Whitland they would send it as 2 units but realised 197s are not yet cleared for Pembroke Dock yet? I wonder what will happen. Maybe a set swap at Cardiff to a Sprinter which will divide at Whitland? . Or just send a 153 from Whitland to Pembroke. The info screens are off and no manual announcements.

Nice opportunity to go Crewe to Chester a line I've only been on once in the past I think.

That service is booked to be a 197 today, only 1 set not 2, so the other set must have been needed for something else.
There is no Whitland split this week. A pair of 153s from Pembroke will turn around at Whitland and go back.

 

[sd0733]

How many 197s are still to be delivered/accepted?

There's still 26 in total which havent yet been in service.
21 ERTMS 2 cars (003/022-041) And 5 3 cars (119/121/123/124/126) although 124 should be in service fairly imminently.

 

[Jez]

That service is booked to be a 197 today, only 1 set not 2, so the other set must have been needed for something else.
There is no Whitland split this week. A pair of 153s from Pembroke will turn around at Whitland and go back.

Thank you for explaining. Must be an error on the data feed to RTT and the information screens.

Looking at RTT it appears the other 197 did the 1500 Crewe to Chester shuttle. They have certainly been spoilt for choice on that route today with 3 car 197s and MK4 sets on some of the services.

There's still 26 in total which havent yet been in service.
21 ERTMS 2 cars (003/022-041) And 5 3 cars (119/121/123/124/126) although 124 should be in service fairly imminently.

So pretty much aside from the 5 x 3 cars we should be up to full capacity for the Marches very soon.

 

[animationmilo]

Thank you for explaining. Must be an error on the data feed to RTT and the information screens.

Looking at RTT it appears the other 197 did the 1500 Crewe to Chester shuttle. They have certainly been spoilt for choice on that route today with 3 car 197s and MK4 sets on some of the services.


So pretty much aside from the 5 x 3 cars we should be up to full capacity for the Marches very soon.

It doesnt help they are using 197's on Maesteg to Cheltenham at the moment so once they get 231s at some point that will help the marches line to be able to double up more sets to a 4 car until they can run more than a 4 car

 

[BillStampy]

It doesnt help they are using 197's on Maesteg to Cheltenham at the moment so once they get 231s at some point that will help the marches line to be able to double up more sets to a 4 car until they can run more than a 4 car

That's if we get 231s... at the current rate I'm unsure if we'll ever get them

 

[Lurcheroo]

So pretty much aside from the 5 x 3 cars we should be up to full capacity for the Marches very soon.

As said above, all the standard 197’s will be in but as 197’s are covering multiple routes they’re not intended for such as Maesteg and Bidston. They’re also routinely covering for the MK4’s having a minimum of 1 diagram a day. Once the 5th diagram is planned MK4 and with the reliability improvement we’ve seen that will help Marches capacity on both the 197 and MK4 front.

 

[Jez]

It doesnt help they are using 197's on Maesteg to Cheltenham at the moment so once they get 231s at some point that will help the marches line to be able to double up more sets to a 4 car until they can run more than a 4 car

On paper I thought the 197s covering Maesteg to Cheltenham and Ebbw Vale are the ones that will eventualy work to Pembroke Dock and Swanline. That was certainly what was suggested when it was announced those lines would temporarily get 197s. Things may have changed since then however. A lot of plans have changed in the last 12 to 18 months.

Having 2 x 197 on Wrexham and at least 1 covering MK4's doesn't help though.

As said above, all the standard 197’s will be in but as 197’s are covering multiple routes they’re not intended for such as Maesteg and Bidston. They’re also routinely covering for the MK4’s having a minimum of 1 diagram a day. Once the 5th diagram is planned MK4 and with the reliability improvement we’ve seen that will help Marches capacity on both the 197 and MK4 front.

I hope.so

 

[Caaardiff]

The Pembroke Dock line should see 197s in the next few weeks, meaning more 2 car 197s cascaded to that line and taken from elsewhere. The remaining 3 cars to be delivered will just replace those 2 cars, so there won't be much capacity gains.