Andy Pacer
Established Member
I assume the same applies to Fishguard which the unit you attach to goes to.Pembroke dock still isn't cleared for 197s, so it's either a 150 or 153 on that service
I assume the same applies to Fishguard which the unit you attach to goes to.Pembroke dock still isn't cleared for 197s, so it's either a 150 or 153 on that service
197s are cleared to Fishguard Harbour and do work some services there.I assume the same applies to Fishguard which the unit you attach to goes to.
I’m more than happy to admit that the 197’s are far from perfect and in some ways a downgrade on old stock, but those criticisms have to be balanced with the acknowledgment of the fact that they could have been (and almost were) much worse.Travelling on a Northern 195 this morning. The seats are definitely a lot less comfortable than the 197s. I think we got a better deal with the 197s overall IMO
That is your opinion I think it depends on how far you travel on them. I have found the 197 most uncomfortable after about 20 miles. When I travel on the Borderlands Line I avoid the 197s much prefering the 230 which is much more comfortable and something very different.I believe Pembroke Dock is booked for pairs of 153s but 150s do turn up to cover from time to time still
Travelling on a Northern 195 this morning. The seats are definitely a lot less comfortable than the 197s. I think we got a better deal with the 197s overall IMO.
To be fair.i did put IMO on my postThat is your opinion I think it depends on how far you travel on them. I have found the 197 most uncomfortable after about 20 miles. When I travel on the Borderlands Line I avoid the 197s much prefering the 230 which is much more comfortable and something very different.
Sorry, I was referring to a TfW Facebook image which showed increasing capacity on the Marches. I couldn’t get it to load here.
On a technicality, I think it is correct.Sorry, I was referring to a TfW Facebook image which showed increasing capacity on the Marches. I couldn’t get it to load here.
No. There's been more proving run yet.So will 5 car to Manchester be starting next week at the timetable change?
That's because more 3 cars have been delivered recently. It all takes time, there's been delays and theres been issues with 197 reliability, no secret has been made about that.The issue for me is that we have been promised 5-car 197s and that has not happened, plus it is only the last month or so where there has not been regular 2-cars on the Manchester services. We still see 2-cars substituting for the Mk4s.
Personally, I think that it’s not a bad idea. They’re supposed to be long distance units so a better catering service would always be welcomed.After using a few 197s now, I've come to the conclusion that the two car sets should never have been ordered with the giant catering cupboard, it's such a waste of space, on par with the train managers office on the 350s and will probably see as much use...
What was wrong with just sticking a trolley in the vestibule, as has happened on regional routes for years now?
Nice little jaunt across to Chester, Beaton castle can look quite nice in the right light.On the 1415 Crewe to Milford Service. Noticed it was 6 cars at Crewe before departure but they detached the back 3. Did someone think with this service due to split at Whitland they would send it as 2 units but realised 197s are cleared for Pembroke Dock yet? I wonder what will happen. Maybe a set swap at Cardiff to a Sprinter which will divide at Whitland? . The info screens are off and no manual announcements.
Nice opportunity to go Crewe to Chester a line I've only been on once in the past I think.
153303 and 153909 allocated Whitland - Pembroke DockOn the 1415 Crewe to Milford Service. Noticed it was 6 cars at Crewe before departure but they detached the back 3. Did someone think with this service due to split at Whitland they would send it as 2 units but realised 197s are not yet cleared for Pembroke Dock yet? I wonder what will happen. Maybe a set swap at Cardiff to a Sprinter which will divide at Whitland? . Or just send a 153 from Whitland to Pembroke. The info screens are off and no manual announcements.
Nice opportunity to go Crewe to Chester a line I've only been on once in the past I think.
I went through Chester yesterday also. But came in from Manchester direction and out towards North Wales.Nice little jaunt across to Chester, Beaton castle can look quite nice in the right light.
Thank you.153303 and 153909 allocated Whitland - Pembroke Dock
Nice to see more 3 cars definitelyOn a technicality, I think it is correct.
Not as many 2-car 197s on the Manchester trains as there were 2-car 175s. The Mk4, when they run, definitely have more seats than anything that ran in their path.
The issue for me is that we have been promised 5-car 197s and that has not happened, plus it is only the last month or so where there has not been regular 2-cars on the Manchester services. We still see 2-cars substituting for the Mk4s.
It is not fully clear what prevents 3-cars as a minimum on ALL Manchester services (either as 3-car or 2x4-car taking one of the 2-car that would have attached to one of the 3-cars that does run). It feels like there are issues with 197s that are not being divulged.
The 05:38 from Cardiff arrives in Manchester very full, and there always seem to be people waiting for the 09:30 back south. I cannot think that really justifies 2-car unless it is an excuse. Even the day they did use a 3-car it was full (though not standing) after Nantwich.
That service is booked to be a 197 today, only 1 set not 2, so the other set must have been needed for something else.On the 1415 Crewe to Milford Service. Noticed it was 6 cars at Crewe before departure but they detached the back 3. Did someone think with this service due to split at Whitland they would send it as 2 units but realised 197s are not yet cleared for Pembroke Dock yet? I wonder what will happen. Maybe a set swap at Cardiff to a Sprinter which will divide at Whitland? . Or just send a 153 from Whitland to Pembroke. The info screens are off and no manual announcements.
Nice opportunity to go Crewe to Chester a line I've only been on once in the past I think.
There's still 26 in total which havent yet been in service.How many 197s are still to be delivered/accepted?
Thank you for explaining. Must be an error on the data feed to RTT and the information screens.That service is booked to be a 197 today, only 1 set not 2, so the other set must have been needed for something else.
There is no Whitland split this week. A pair of 153s from Pembroke will turn around at Whitland and go back.
So pretty much aside from the 5 x 3 cars we should be up to full capacity for the Marches very soon.There's still 26 in total which havent yet been in service.
21 ERTMS 2 cars (003/022-041) And 5 3 cars (119/121/123/124/126) although 124 should be in service fairly imminently.
It doesnt help they are using 197's on Maesteg to Cheltenham at the moment so once they get 231s at some point that will help the marches line to be able to double up more sets to a 4 car until they can run more than a 4 carThank you for explaining. Must be an error on the data feed to RTT and the information screens.
Looking at RTT it appears the other 197 did the 1500 Crewe to Chester shuttle. They have certainly been spoilt for choice on that route today with 3 car 197s and MK4 sets on some of the services.
So pretty much aside from the 5 x 3 cars we should be up to full capacity for the Marches very soon.
That's if we get 231s... at the current rate I'm unsure if we'll ever get themIt doesnt help they are using 197's on Maesteg to Cheltenham at the moment so once they get 231s at some point that will help the marches line to be able to double up more sets to a 4 car until they can run more than a 4 car
As said above, all the standard 197’s will be in but as 197’s are covering multiple routes they’re not intended for such as Maesteg and Bidston. They’re also routinely covering for the MK4’s having a minimum of 1 diagram a day. Once the 5th diagram is planned MK4 and with the reliability improvement we’ve seen that will help Marches capacity on both the 197 and MK4 front.So pretty much aside from the 5 x 3 cars we should be up to full capacity for the Marches very soon.
On paper I thought the 197s covering Maesteg to Cheltenham and Ebbw Vale are the ones that will eventualy work to Pembroke Dock and Swanline. That was certainly what was suggested when it was announced those lines would temporarily get 197s. Things may have changed since then however. A lot of plans have changed in the last 12 to 18 months.It doesnt help they are using 197's on Maesteg to Cheltenham at the moment so once they get 231s at some point that will help the marches line to be able to double up more sets to a 4 car until they can run more than a 4 car
I hope.soAs said above, all the standard 197’s will be in but as 197’s are covering multiple routes they’re not intended for such as Maesteg and Bidston. They’re also routinely covering for the MK4’s having a minimum of 1 diagram a day. Once the 5th diagram is planned MK4 and with the reliability improvement we’ve seen that will help Marches capacity on both the 197 and MK4 front.