CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Neptune]

The 195's don't have the gangway doors to contend with, the 196 & 197 units will require much longer as a result of opening the multiple doors and moving the cab wall.

I wonder if this has been worked out on the wmt 196 units !

Good point. I’m pleased we don’t have the gangways on the 195’s in that case (ducks for cover from the gangway mafia )

 

[craigybagel]

A handy location, eh? I look forward to seeing (in time) whether it matches any of my speculative guesses...


(Edit to add: I think one forum member may have let the location slip in another thread over the summer. If it's correct, then that's convenient in both location and timing!)

Indeed, IIRC someone else did put it up somewhere but that's on them. I have a mortgage to pay

Good point. I’m pleased we don’t have the gangways on the 195’s in that case (ducks for cover from the gangway mafia )

As a driver I wish we weren't getting gangways! They're a contributor to why 158s are nowhere near as nice to drive as 175s. But I know that's a purely selfish point of view; as a former guard and as a passenger, they're definitely a necessity for this particular fleet.

 

[wobman]

Good point. I’m pleased we don’t have the gangways on the 195’s in that case (ducks for cover from the gangway mafia )

Omg they will be coming after you for that comment, the 175's are so much nicer to drive compared to 158's / 150's and 153's as there's no gangway door.
Let's hope the seals are up to the job and wind noise isn't deafening on the 197's....

 

[krus_aragon]

Indeed, IIRC someone else did put it up somewhere but that's on them. I have a mortgage to pay

Naturally.

My only frustration is not knowing whether I thought of that possibility myself, or if I was just remembering that previous post...

 

[James James]

Okay- rather than being Northern's fault specifically, it's the fault of the stupidly fragmented system we've ended up with...

But then, the same thing happened plenty of times under BR: the Turbos having couplers specifically designed to be incompatible with Sprinters, or the plethora of different multi-working systems on the first-generation units and locos. Compare that to the United States and their mostly private system, but they still managed to have a universal standard for multi-working.

I suppose if there weren't all these peculiar quirks and oddities, this website would be rather dull!

A silly question perhaps, but is there anything to stop the electrical boxes on the 195's from being moved below the coupler if necessary?

It is of course entirely unnecessary at this point in time, and would require some engineering work (or to put it differently: it's a waste of time and money)... but is there any reason it should be impossible (assuming that CAF at least is running similar software or is implementing a common standard for the electrical communication?).

 

[krus_aragon]

A silly question perhaps, but is there anything to stop the electrical boxes on the 195's from being moved below the coupler if necessary?

It is of course entirely unnecessary at this point in time, and would require some engineering work (or to put it differently: it's a waste of time and money)... but is there any reason it should be impossible (assuming that CAF at least is running similar software or is implementing a common standard for the electrical communication?).

Speaking with no inside information, it'd certainly be doable. My guess is some bodywork and associated rewiring, assuming that the area under the connector is clear.

It'll come down to how badly "we" want to do the modification, versus the cost of doing so. (Project Thor for the Voyagers was doable, just too expensive for anyone to pay for it.)

 

[jamiearmley]

Omg they will be coming after you for that comment, the 175's are so much nicer to drive compared to 158's / 150's and 153's as there's no gangway door.
Let's hope the seals are up to the job and wind noise isn't deafening on the 197's....

I wouldn't worry too much about the draught from the end gangway doors.... wait till the deafening noise of the wind around the cab access doors starts distracting you and driving you mad....(poor, and deteriorating, door seals...)...that's of course when the damn things aren't losing interlock at speed. You might find that the rushing wind noise distracts you from the aircon which never stops however, so that's a plus.

If they are anything like the 195 units, be grateful for the end gangways : it makes moving from unit 1 to unit 2 to investigate repeated spurious faults so much easier. These cab doors are not easy to open from track level.
And yes, the TCMS will constantly invent new and interesting ways to make you late for your PNB...

Work, however, is so much more interesting when there is variety to the day

 

[craigybagel]

I wouldn't worry too much about the draught from the end gangway doors.... wait till the deafening noise of the wind around the cab access doors starts distracting you and driving you mad....(poor, and deteriorating, door seals...)...that's of course when the damn things aren't losing interlock at speed. You might find that the rushing wind noise distracts you from the aircon which never stops however, so that's a plus.

If they are anything like the 195 units, be grateful for the end gangways : it makes moving from unit 1 to unit 2 to investigate repeated spurious faults so much easier. These cab doors are not easy to open from track level.
And yes, the TCMS will constantly invent new and interesting ways to make you late for your PNB...

Work, however, is so much more interesting when there is variety to the day

Might explain why the cab access doors on these are completely different to the ones fitted on the 195s

 

[wobman]

I wouldn't worry too much about the draught from the end gangway doors.... wait till the deafening noise of the wind around the cab access doors starts distracting you and driving you mad....(poor, and deteriorating, door seals...)...that's of course when the damn things aren't losing interlock at speed. You might find that the rushing wind noise distracts you from the aircon which never stops however, so that's a plus.

If they are anything like the 195 units, be grateful for the end gangways : it makes moving from unit 1 to unit 2 to investigate repeated spurious faults so much easier. These cab doors are not easy to open from track level.
And yes, the TCMS will constantly invent new and interesting ways to make you late for your PNB...

Work, however, is so much more interesting when there is variety to the day

All new stock is fun and games, don't think the 197's will be any different.
They have heaters that work apparently which is a huge plus, and comfy cab seats another huge improvement from the 158's especially.

I asked about coupling timings for the wmt and TFW units out of curiosity, I then got a few abusive comments ! It makes you double think about asking anything nowadays..... It's good to have a nice civil exchange on here, about something that's relevant.

 

[Bob Price]

197101 out on test today. It's just come back from Llandudno on 363P. Tucked up in a bay platform so looks like it's going back.

 

[krus_aragon]

197101 out on test today. It's just come back from Llandudno on 363P. Tucked up in a bay platform so looks like it's going back.

Yeup, it's got another run to Llandudno (obfuscated as 378P on RTT) and back to Crewe for the afternoon.

 

[jamiearmley]

All new stock is fun and games, don't think the 197's will be any different.
They have heaters that work apparently which is a huge plus, and comfy cab seats another huge improvement from the 158's especially.

I asked about coupling timings for the wmt and TFW units out of curiosity, I then got a few abusive comments ! It makes you double think about asking anything nowadays..... It's good to have a nice civil exchange on here, about something that's relevant.

I think our 195 units wouldn't be good for a comparison of coupling timings to be fair. They couple easily enough, although hard to control at slow speeds. The problems seem to come after, as the two units often struggle to become one in terms of the computer, if that makes sense. Long delays are common during attach ( and sometimes detach!!) and often coupling creates unrelated faults, such as total loss of PA, cab to cab, internal screens, fire detection system, asdo, etc.
Hopefully in the TFW build some of these issues will have been resolved!

Yes, all new units create a bit of fun! Ours seem to be getting worse rather than better, which is disappointing, although the software seems to be improving.
It is nice to have a decent chat!

 

[PHILIPE]

197101 out on test today. It's just come back from Llandudno on 363P. Tucked up in a bay platform so looks like it's going back.

197002 out as well today on 3D03 this morning.

 

[Bob Price]

197102 has been seen being delivered to Crewe today.

 

[Broseley man]

197102 has been seen being delivered to Crewe today.

That's a great video thank you. Does anyone know which company is running the operation at the Telford rail depot end of things?

 

[The_Train]

That's a great video thank you. Does anyone know which company is running the operation at the Telford rail depot end of things?

DB run the depot. They currently use it to repair and maintain car wagons I believe with a once a week working (generally either a shed or a 67) dropping wagons off for maintenance and picking up those that have had work done to them

 

[Broseley man]

DB run the depot. They currently use it to repair and maintain car wagons I believe with a once a week working (generally either a shed or a 67) dropping wagons off for maintenance and picking up those that have had work done to them

Thank you.

 

[The_Train]

Thank you.

Just for reference, if you click on the small icon with the Pendolino picture in that video above, it will take you to the person's channel on YouTube and they have filmed the car wagon move on a few occasions so will have videos on there of it happening (if you're interested of course )

 

[Bob Price]

197004 has been delivered to Donnington for shipping onto Crewe.

 

[Geeves]

197002 is on Allerton Depot today.

 

[wobman]

197002 is on Allerton Depot today.

Is that for repairs???

 

[Geeves]

I am not entirely sure but it had men in orange round it, I am wondering if CAF are doing some work there while the 175s still fill up Chester?

 

[Anonymous10]

I am not entirely sure but it had men in orange round it, I am wondering if CAF are doing some work there while the 175s still fill up Chester?

would be logical considering the similar class 195 are based there allows you to maintain the trains and possibly train some staff before they join the main fleet you would think

 

[wobman]

I am not entirely sure but it had men in orange round it, I am wondering if CAF are doing some work there while the 175s still fill up Chester?

That could be the temporary maintenance depot for the tfw caf units until they take over Chester depot, it would make sense as Chester depot is full of the 175s. I'm looking forward to seeing the 197s in service next year.

 

[Bob Price]

197006 photographed by Jacob Porritt at Donnington 24/11/21

https://twitter.com/MrDonnington/status/1463493844608114692?t=Py50qGFOKOQklytkrknT2w&s=19

 

[wobman]

197006 photographed by Jacob Porritt at Donnington 24/11/21

https://twitter.com/MrDonnington/status/1463493844608114692?t=Py50qGFOKOQklytkrknT2w&s=19

That will moving to its new home in crewe soon hopefully, it will add to the rest of them stabled there. I've heard only 002 has been handed over to tfw so far, is that correct ?

 

[Bob Price]

Not sure but 001 and 004 were out today.

 

[Philip]

I take it we won't be seeing 197s in passenger service on the Chester-Liverpool route in time for the December timetable change?

Is May next year an optimistic prediction for introduction on the Manchester to North and South Wales services?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I take it we won't be seeing 197s in passenger service on the Chester-Liverpool route in time for the December timetable change?

Is May next year an optimistic prediction for introduction on the Manchester to North and South Wales services?

May seems far too early, much as I would love to see them in service that soon. December 21 you’ve got no chance.

 

[Eccles1983]

I take it we won't be seeing 197s in passenger service on the Chester-Liverpool route in time for the December timetable change?

Is May next year an optimistic prediction for introduction on the Manchester to North and South Wales services?

1. Absolutely not. No drivers have been trained on it yet. A tester course has been done and the results of which need a tweak or two.

2. Yes and possibly no. The north depots will be running them by then but not certain if the southern depots will.