CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[SeaKing]

On news yet on when 197123 and 197126 will enter service?

Don’t think 126 has left factory.

 

[WirralLine]

Im on 197050 currently which appears to have had the PIS announcements altered - either that or it's not working properly. It is announcing "We are now approaching XYZ" and not saying the whole "If you are leaving us here.... thank you for travelling.." etc.

When stopped at a station it now just announces "Welcome to X, We will be travelling to, Y" and doesn't say thank you for travelling.

Hopefully it's the deliberate update that was promised and not just a glitch!

 

[InkyScrolls]

Im on 197050 currently which appears to have had the PIS announcements altered - either that or it's not working properly. It is announcing "We are now approaching XYZ" and not saying the whole "If you are leaving us here.... thank you for travelling.." etc.

When stopped at a station it now just announces "Welcome to X, We will be travelling to, Y" and doesn't say thank you for travelling.

Hopefully it's the deliberate update that was promised and not just a glitch!

That sounds far less irritating!

 

[MP393]

It is an update with less audible clutter, so it’s working as intended! Caught me by surprise on one this afternoon

 

[WirralLine]

It certainly does appear to be the long awaited update. No signs of the updated internal screens just yet.

I travelled on the Bidston line today, which with the frequent stops used to produce an almost constant barrage of announcements - much more pleasant today!

 

[DelW]

Sorry for the slow response to the touchscreen problems. Hate to backtrack but it’s the single most annoying thing in a 197 for a driver. (Well, for me at least)

The interface feels like it was designed by a child. For example, you have to set the ASDO up everytime you start the day, shunt out of course or attach/detach a unit. The system has no clue where it is so brings up a massive list of nearby stations and before you can do it the guard keys in and the system is disabled to the driver. Once the guard keys out, the driver has to go back through the slow menu and set it up (this is when the guard give you “ready to start” and you’re still playing with the stupid computer.) WHY!

Nice rant! Agree with a lot of it. It is relatively rare to get a 197 cab with a cupholder that isnt broken. I genuinely think a GCSE student of Product Design could design something better. As keeping hydrated is important for concentration, you can see why the drivers get so annoyed with them. It wouldnt be so bad if you can place your drink on another surface but the desks are sloped so anything placed on them like drink bottles, pens would slide off and cause distraction.

Sixty years ago you could have hung a tea can on the backhead, it would have hung there securely and the fire kept it hot - where's the progress?

More seriously, thanks both for the insight into some of the issues with these systems. It does seem strange that trains can make it into service with such fundamental software problems making driving more difficult rather than less. When I was looking at options for my current car, one of my priorities was to have as many physical controls as possible, since I really dislike using touchscreens when on the move. It sounds like CAF should have kept some as well!

 

[Lurcheroo]

Im on 197050 currently which appears to have had the PIS announcements altered - either that or it's not working properly. It is announcing "We are now approaching XYZ" and not saying the whole "If you are leaving us here.... thank you for travelling.." etc.

When stopped at a station it now just announces "Welcome to X, We will be travelling to, Y" and doesn't say thank you for travelling.

Hopefully it's the deliberate update that was promised and not just a glitch!

It is an update with less audible clutter, so it’s working as intended! Caught me by surprise on one this afternoon

That is great! I knew it was coming but not seen anything to say it was / has happened.

 

[vicbury]

It certainly does appear to be the long awaited update. No signs of the updated internal screens just yet.

I travelled on the Bidston line today, which with the frequent stops used to produce an almost constant barrage of announcements - much more pleasant today!

Are the updated announcements still bilingual at English stations?

 

[WirralLine]

Are the updated announcements still bilingual at English stations?

They are indeed

 

[Jez]

Thats great news. Sometimes the annoucements are excessive so its good they have been cut down.

Does it still say 'We will be calling at X.,.... ONLY... The next stop will be our final stop' after the penultimate station? It would be better if this was said within a few minutes of the final stop rather than just after the penultimate station which could be 20-30 mins away.

 

[BillStampy]

Does anyone know the whereabouts of 197101? Last I heard it was loaded off somewhere..

 

[50002Superb]

Don’t think 126 has left factory.

Does that mean that 123 is close?

 

[skyhigh]

Yet another bugbear is that the TCMS HMI screen disappears after a couple of seconds of inactivity. So it requires tapping, then waiting for it to wake up. Then as soon as its on, its gone off again. I think that as a driver, if I want it on (i.e to look at the driver tab showing brake / throttle percentages) it should stay on, until I decide to turn it off.

On 195/331s the HMI is permanently on when the cab is active. Seems far more sensible.

 

[Bob Price]

Does that mean that 123 is close?

I think 123 went to Chester today on a ROG move from Crewe

 

[nigelsporne]

There appears to be some mystery on the whereabouts of some of the 197s. Is the factory in Newport not visible to ascertain whether there are any there?

 

[50002Superb]

I think 123 went to Chester today on a ROG move from Crewe

That’s great to hear, thanks!

 

[Bob Price]

It's not easy to see the factory from the road or rail. The best place to see them is when they have been shipped to Donnington

 

[nigelsporne]

Thanks

 

[FD99]

Sixty years ago you could have hung a tea can on the backhead, it would have hung there securely and the fire kept it hot - where's the progress?

More seriously, thanks both for the insight into some of the issues with these systems. It does seem strange that trains can make it into service with such fundamental software problems making driving more difficult rather than less. When I was looking at options for my current car, one of my priorities was to have as many physical controls as possible, since I really dislike using touchscreens when on the move. It sounds like CAF should have kept some as well!

I’m a huge fan of physical buttons. Who in their right mind thought putting everything on touch screen was a good idea in a train or a car! I’ve seen some car reviews that say they need to get into 5 submenus to control heat when in certain modes. How’s that safe. Anyway. I digress.

I do want to state though, for the record, I do prefer the 198’s over the 175’s. Yes they can be very slow to react but once you’re set up and things are going well, they’re much nicer to drive. Even if the ride is much worse. Just getting up to speed in a decent time is a game changer. They just feel more relaxed to drive. It’s quite hard to explain if I’m honest. I could run on the bidston line all day in them, great units on there. But all the little niggly faults just let it down.

So, a 158 is still my favourite train to drive, followed by a 230 then the others.

 

[craigybagel]

On 195/331s the HMI is permanently on when the cab is active. Seems far more sensible.

I'm assuming having to put it high up on the bulkhead because of the gangway on 197s complicates things? You don't really want a lit up screen that high up on all of the time

I’m a huge fan of physical buttons. Who in their right mind thought putting everything on touch screen was a good idea in a train or a car! I’ve seen some car reviews that say they need to get into 5 submenus to control heat when in certain modes. How’s that safe. Anyway. I digress.

I do want to state though, for the record, I do prefer the 198’s over the 175’s. Yes they can be very slow to react but once you’re set up and things are going well, they’re much nicer to drive. Even if the ride is much worse. Just getting up to speed in a decent time is a game changer. They just feel more relaxed to drive. It’s quite hard to explain if I’m honest. I could run on the bidston line all day in them, great units on there. But all the little niggly faults just let it down.

So, a 158 is still my favourite train to drive, followed by a 230 then the others.

I was trying to find a way to articulate this myself. There are so many questionable design features, and some frustrating teething problems, but when it comes down to actually sitting down in the (very comfortable) chair and making them stop and go, 197s are actually really nice to drive.

 

[Krokodil]

I'm assuming having to put it high up on the bulkhead because of the gangway on 197s complicates things? You don't really want a lit up screen that high up on all of the time

I was trying to find a way to articulate this myself. There are so many questionable design features, and some frustrating teething problems, but when it comes down to actually sitting down in the (very comfortable) chair and making them stop and go, 197s are actually really nice to drive.

I miss the simplicity and reliability of the Guard's Van in a Mk3 DVT. A three-way switch (heat/vent/cool) which worked without fail.

 

[craigybagel]

I miss the simplicity and reliability of the Guard's Van in a Mk3 DVT. A three-way switch (heat/vent/cool) which worked without fail.

As opposed to that same switch on a 175, that gave you 3 different varieties of cold air.

The HVAC on 197s might be a little awkward to adjust, but at least it works!

 

[BillStampy]

Took a trip on a 197 earlier today (197121) and the announcements are updated, so odd now for it to not say "Thank you for travelling with Transport for Wales" and "If you are leaving us here.." Now it's just "We are now approaching.." and that's it. Good on them to downsize them though!

 

[Bikeman78]

As opposed to that same switch on a 175, that gave you 3 different varieties of cold air.

It was the same in the passenger saloons. The air con always blew cold air out. In the winter, the floor heaters would pump out heat to try and beat the air con. So I would be sitting there with hot ankles and cold shoulders!

 

[sd0733]

The HVAC on 197s might be a little awkward to adjust, but at least it works!

Apart from in the back cab on one of the many sets with an engine out. Some of those make an ice box 175 cab seem pleasant!

 

[MP393]

I miss the simplicity and reliability of the Guard's Van in a Mk3 DVT. A three-way switch (heat/vent/cool) which worked without fail.

It’s the same in the Mk4s. Very easy to forgot how well the heat works too, can leave it on heat whilst doing a full ticket check and you could return to the office feeling like you’ve stepped of an aircraft in the canaries. Meanwhile I’ve had some 197s which haven’t warmed up until it’s time to change ends again!

 

[Krokodil]

The HVAC on 197s might be a little awkward to adjust, but at least it works!

It might do in your end, but if there is an engine out the fan turns up to full with no H/AC and I can't change it. So I freeze in winter.

It’s the same in the Mk4s. Very easy to forgot how well the heat works too, can leave it on heat whilst doing a full ticket check and you could return to the office feeling like you’ve stepped of an aircraft in the canaries. Meanwhile I’ve had some 197s which haven’t warmed up until it’s time to change ends again!

Working commuter trains to Manchester with 400 tickets to check/issue in an hour and four coaches worth of slam doors to close at nine stations in the same period of time meant that I always switched it to cool as otherwise I'd be sweating by the time that I returned to the van.

 

[craigybagel]

Apart from in the back cab on one of the many sets with an engine out. Some of those make an ice box 175 cab seem pleasant!

It might do in your end, but if there is an engine out the fan turns up to full with no H/AC and I can't change it. So I freeze in winter.


Working commuter trains to Manchester with 400 tickets to check/issue in an hour and four coaches worth of slam doors to close at nine stations in the same period of time meant that I always switched it to cool as otherwise I'd be sweating by the time that I returned to the van.

So the opposite of 175s where as a guard I never understood all the complaints from the drivers about the heating not working, as it seemed plenty warm enough to me. Then I went driving and discovered just how much worse it was in the front

 

[Defiance149]

Does anyone know the whereabouts of 197101? Last I heard it was loaded off somewhere..

Millenium Site Services, Derby

 

[AdamWW]

According to the TFWRail Twitter account, first class ticket holders will have to pay the same upgrade fee to use Standard Plus as standard class ticket holders, as it's a different class.

This seems a slightly odd decision to me.