CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Lurcheroo]

welcome to the new pacer !

More like welcome to the new version of delusional

 

[Topological]

Having used enough pacers over the years, the 19x are nothing like pacers. Yes, they are more basic than some trains, but pacer they are not.

All that the 197s need is to have enough carriages. Apparently, there will be 5 carriages on the Manchester to South Wales and that will be a big improvement on anything else on the line*. It is a strange passenger who prefers to stand on a shorter train because it is "nicer".

* The Mk4 debate is open, but they seldom run the full route as they mostly terminate in Cardiff.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Having used enough pacers over the years, the 19x are nothing like pacers. Yes, they are more basic than some trains, but pacer they are not.

All that the 197s need is to have enough carriages. Apparently, there will be 5 carriages on the Manchester to South Wales and that will be a big improvement on anything else on the line*. It is a strange passenger who prefers to stand on a shorter train because it is "nicer".

* The Mk4 debate is open, but they seldom run the full route as they mostly terminate in Cardiff.

I only prefer to stand on a short journey in summer (30ish minutes or less) when there's air-con and I've been in the humid outdoors. I'd take a reasonably loaded 197 over a quieter 150 in this case.

 

[CardiffKid]

Is it time to try and summarize the net gains and net losses to the TfW fleet in the last 12 months ?

Losses
4 2 car 170
8 3 car 170
11 2 car 175
16 3 car 175
8 4 car 769
x x

Gains
x 2 car 197
x 3 car 197
5 3 car 230 finally in traffic
11 4 car 231s
X 3 car 756s NOT YET IN TRAFFIC
x class 398 Tram trains NOT YET IN TRAFFIC
x Mk4 sets


Can anyone add to this ?

A small graphic from TfW showing/claiming to have increased there fleet size from 128 trains with 270 carriages to 151 trains with 326 carriages so far.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

197115 is in service today on Manchester Airport to Llandudno services. This is the first 'Standard Plus' unit, will be interesting to see how it copes with capacity. Is the standard plus being used on this route or is it only for select routes?

 

[Jez]

197115 is in service today on Manchester Airport to Llandudno services. This is the first 'Standard Plus' unit, will be interesting to see how it copes with capacity. Is the standard plus being used on this route or is it only for select routes?

Excellent news. I am wondering the same thing with standard plus. How is it going to work if only a few sets are in service initially.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Excellent news. I am wondering the same thing with standard plus. How is it going to work if only a few sets are in service initially.

sd0733 said it was being used from the get go... but I don't believe the FC units are going to be used on MIA - LLD in the long run, so wonder if the fares are only to be used for certain routes.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Excellent news. I am wondering the same thing with standard plus. How is it going to work if only a few sets are in service initially.

It doesn’t matter if the offering is inconsistent really as it’ll be a buy on board upgrade only anyway.

 

[Jez]

It doesn’t matter if the offering is inconsistent really as it’ll be a buy on board upgrade only anyway.

True but if you want to book an advance ticket (standard class with intention of upgrading) you wouldn't know until the day which journey was allocated the relevant sets.

 

[RailWonderer]

True but if you want to book an advance ticket (standard class with intention of upgrading) you wouldn't know until the day which journey was allocated the relevant sets.

I think TfW knew they would have a hard time sticking the first class 197s to one route so they changed it to a buy on board standard plus. If it comes with complementary trolley the I think it will be good value for a longer stretch of route, as long as the trolley stays in the standard plus area - I can imagine a single 3 car 197 get heaving in the summer on the North Wales coast and Crewe - Manchester.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think TfW knew they would have a hard time sticking the first class 197s to one route so they changed it to a buy on board standard plus. If it comes with complementary trolley the I think it will be good value for a longer stretch of route, as long as the trolley stays in the standard plus area - I can imagine a single 3 car 197 get heaving in the summer on the North Wales coast and Crewe - Manchester.

Well I am in the camp of if I cannot rely on it I am not going to use it.

I prefer to take my own food as it is too late on the train if it happens to have complementary food available. Nothing to say the normal expensive food will be available anyway.

For 197s TfW need to offer a consistent product within each route. No point having sporadic bells and whistles.

 

[Bob Price]

Two 3 car units on 3Q71 from Holyhead today, the second had a gray wrap on the leading units. Couldn't see what it said. May have been 120, they are due back to Chester soon but not showing on the diagrams.

 

[nwales58]

... but I don't believe the FC units are going to be used on MIA - LLD in the long run, so wonder if the fares are only to be used for certain routes.

The upgrade fares now exist between the north coast and both Crewe and Manchester via Warrington, according to brfares.

 

[sd0733]

sd0733 said it was being used from the get go... but I don't believe the FC units are going to be used on MIA - LLD in the long run, so wonder if the fares are only to be used for certain routes.

Edited to correct!

It's active from December 27th on all main routes Manchester- North and South Wales.

Until then it's declassified to maintain capacity leading upto Christmas.

 

[The_Train]

197121 reported to have moved from Donnington to Basford Hall today. Presumably it will move down to Wolverton tomorrow as that seems to be the trend when Basford Hall is involved!

Would anybody happen to know which units reside at Donnington at the moment?

 

[Lurcheroo]

My understanding is that standard plus will be an ‘onboard upgrade’ only and the upgrade will be about half the cost of a first class upgrade on the MK4’s.

Someone I know got on it for a trip today. They said it was declassified and the guard didn’t know how to do the upgrade. Insure if it was declassified because the guard didn’t know how to do them or for other reasons.

 

[sd0733]

My understanding is that standard plus will be an ‘onboard upgrade’ only and the upgrade will be about half the cost of a first class upgrade on the MK4’s.

Someone I know got on it for a trip today. They said it was declassified and the guard didn’t know how to do the upgrade. Insure if it was declassified because the guard didn’t know how to do them or for other reasons.

It's Declassified for the next 4 days then runs as Standard Plus from 27th now

 

[GWVillager]

It's Declassified for the next 4 days then runs as Standard Plus from 27th now

Ah excellent. I’ll try and find it before then!

 

[Steveswan10]

Is todays 1V90 the first 5 car 197 in revenue service on the marches? (Units 197043 and 197108)

 

[GWVillager]

Is todays 1V90 the first 5 car 197 in revenue service on the marches? (Units 197043 and 197108)

If it runs then I believe so - it’s only just been cleared iirc.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Is todays 1V90 the first 5 car 197 in revenue service on the marches? (Units 197043 and 197108)

Correct yes.

 

[Kite159]

Would make more sense for that 197 with "Standard Plus" to run declassified until more of that batch enter service.

Otherwise we all know what will happen, the 2.5 coaches of standard will be full & standing with nobody in the slightly posher seats as there will be a member of staff ready to pounce for expensive upgrades for anybody who dares enter that area.

 

[Bletchleyite]

197115 is in service today on Manchester Airport to Llandudno services. This is the first 'Standard Plus' unit, will be interesting to see how it copes with capacity. Is the standard plus being used on this route or is it only for select routes?

Any pics of this knocking around? I'd quite like to see what it looks like inside.

 

[Envoy]

Are all the 3 car trains having “Standard Plus”?

 

[GWVillager]

Any pics of this knocking around? I'd quite like to see what it looks like inside.

I’m going to go and hunt for it tomorrow, with a camera of course.

Are all the 3 car trains having “Standard Plus”?

No, just 197113-126.

 

[Dan G]

Edited to correct!

It's active from December 27th on all main routes Manchester- North and South Wales.

Until then it's declassified to maintain capacity leading upto Christmas.

Will Standard Plus be available on other routes in the future?

 

[sd0733]

Will Standard Plus be available on other routes in the future?

Honestly not sure what the longer term plans are for it but there'll only be 14 197s fitted so won't be many to spread their wings far.

 

[Envoy]

Wonder what will happen when a passenger buys a standard plus ticket from say Ludlow to Haverfordwest? They board standard plus zone at Ludlow and then realise at Swansea that it won't continue west and have to move to another part of the train before the split. Surely, they would be rather angry?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Wonder what will happen when a passenger buys a standard plus ticket from say Ludlow to Haverfordwest? They board standard plus zone at Ludlow and then realise at Swansea that it won't continue west and have to move to another part of the train before the split. Surely, they would be rather angry?

Well they won’t, will they? They’ll have a normal ticket from Ludlow to Haverfordwest, ask to upgrade, and they’ll be sold a Standard Plus upgrade to Swansea if they decide it’s worth it.

 

[Rail Quest]

I was sent these pictures earlier of the standard plus area if anyone's not seen pictures yet.