Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Scotrail84]

If you heard it in a messroom, consider it bulls***.

Does sound like classic messroom 'expert' material though. Probably some truth in there, perhaps not currently cleared, but in reality probably just pending some small clearance works or a paperwork exercise.

No and no again.

 

[modernrail]

Hi, I am using the lowland at the end of August. I presume there is no chance of this being new stock?

 

[Scotrail84]

Hi, I am using the lowland at the end of August. I presume there is no chance of this being new stock?

No. It will be the current stock that you travel on.

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

KINGS X WORKING

Lowlanders will be 12 vice 16.

Inverness load 8

Aberdeen/Ft William load 8. (lounge car and seats remaining in Edinburgh as normal)

Only 5 on up departure from Glasgow tonight, including the lounge car and seats. Never seen such a short sleeper. I wonder if they’ve put more on the Edinburgh portion because of the Festival?

 

[tsr]

Massive problems on the ECML tonight due to a difficult incident just north of Newark North Gate. The Down line through the area has just reopened.

Northbound Sleepers 1S25 and 1S26 are initially the worst affected; 138 late and 78 late respectively, running literally one behind another!

Not sure if this could cause problems with crew changes. Depends on the diagrams for tonight, I suppose.

 

[Scotrail84]

Massive problems on the ECML tonight due to a difficult incident just north of Newark North Gate. The Down line through the area has just reopened.

Northbound Sleepers 1S25 and 1S26 are initially the worst affected; 138 late and 78 late respectively, running literally one behind another!

Not sure if this could cause problems with crew changes. Depends on the diagrams for tonight, I suppose.

Whats that mean?

EDIT, its fine, I know whats happened.

 

[Scotrail84]

Its fine, I know whats happened.

 

[N/100]

Massive problems on the ECML !tonight ...
Not sure if this could cause problems with crew changes. Depends on the diagrams for tonight, I suppose.

No problem on the southbound lowlander at any rate; 20 early at Kings Cross despite an hour at Edinburgh rehousing passengers booked in the faulty seating coach; conveyed in the lounge car to Edinburgh and then transferred to beds in the Edinburgh portion.

 

[BRX]

I'm just off the northbound highlander at Fort William. The theme of knackered mk2s continues - this time sadly not resulting in a free upgrade from seats to berth - but with the lounge coach on the Fort William portion being completely out of action. Not just that it could serve no food or drink but was attached by what the attendant called an 'emergency coupling' meaning that there was no access to it from the sleeper coaches. Not sure exactly what was going on there.

Arrived in Fort William bang on time though.

The seated coach at the moment is one of the ones with 2+2 and tables.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Must have been attached with a screw coupling rather than the buckeye then. The same thing you'll see on steam railways when they attach the locomotive to the coaching stock

 

[BRX]

Must have been attached with a screw coupling rather than the buckeye then. The same thing you'll see on steam railways when they attach the locomotive to the coaching stock

I guess that doesn't give tight enough connection to allow the gangway to be opened?

 

[Surreytraveller]

I guess that doesn't give tight enough connection to allow the gangway to be opened?

No. The connection would have been a bit 'flexible'. There may have also been a safety aspect, as a screw coupling doesn't afford the same protection against the coaches coming apart in the event of a collision as other types of couplings.

 

[Scotrail84]

I'm just off the northbound highlander at Fort William. The theme of knackered mk2s continues - this time sadly not resulting in a free upgrade from seats to berth - but with the lounge coach on the Fort William portion being completely out of action. Not just that it could serve no food or drink but was attached by what the attendant called an 'emergency coupling' meaning that there was no access to it from the sleeper coaches. Not sure exactly what was going on there.

Arrived in Fort William bang on time though.

The seated coach at the moment is one of the ones with 2+2 and tables.

No access to the lounge from the berths except for staff, don't see how the seated passengers couldn't have got a tea or coffee though.

 

[Scotrail84]

I guess that doesn't give tight enough connection to allow the gangway to be opened?

No it leaves a large gap, not big enough to fall through but certainly big enough to get a limb caught in if the train jolts and receive a nasty, possibly life changing injury.

 

[BRX]

No access to the lounge from the berths except for staff, don't see how the seated passengers couldn't have got a tea or coffee though.

Boiler/kitchen out of action, we were told.

 

[Scotrail84]

Boiler/kitchen out of action, we were told.

That would only be the case if there was an MA failure. Was the MA running do you know?

 

[BRX]

That would only be the case if there was an MA failure. Was the MA running do you know?

What's the MA? Alternator/power supply? The power appeared to be out in the lounge car (no lights on) but seemed ok in the seats.

 

[Scotrail84]

What's the MA? Alternator/power supply? The power appeared to be out in the lounge car (no lights on) but seemed ok in the seats.

MA is the Motor alternator that creates the power for the coach, its the torpedo shaped thing underneath the coach. Going by your description it seems as if it had failed.

 

[BRX]

MA is the Motor alternator that creates the power for the coach, its the torpedo shaped thing underneath the coach. Going by your description it seems as if it had failed.

I thought power came from the loco.

 

[A Challenge]

I thought it didn't create it, just convert it?

 

[RLBH]

I thought power came from the loco.

Motor-generator set - the loco supplies 800V DC, which drives a motor on the coach. The motor then drives an alternator to generate 50Hz AC (not sure if it's 240V single-phase or 415V three-phase) to supply the loads on the coach.

It's a rather silly system, but when the ETS standard was set the only things it had to drive were heaters and lighting, which worked just fine on DC whilst the electronics for AC would have been quite difficult. By the 1970s, three-phase ETS was technically possible, but changing from the legacy systems would have been difficult. It was done for HST Mark 3s because they were only expected to work with their own power cars, but other LHCS has stuck with DC.

Given that the Mark 5s need the ETS beefed up to handle increased load, I'm surprised they're using 1500V DC rather than 3-phase AC. I'm sure there's an excellent reason, but I've no clue what it is.

 

[gordonjahn]

Given that the Mark 5s need the ETS beefed up to handle increased load, I'm surprised they're using 1500V DC rather than 3-phase AC. I'm sure there's an excellent reason, but I've no clue what it is.

You only get 1ph 25kV AC from the OHLE, which is easier to convert and rectify to 1500VDC than convert to 415VAC/3ph. An HST power car has an engine running at constant 1,500rpm - with a 4-pole alternator you'll get 50Hz out.

1,500VDC is probably high enough voltage to keep the current sensible for the supplied power, and the simplest compromise for the combination of electric and diesel traction.

 

[Scotrail84]

I thought it didn't create it, just convert it?

Well whatever, I'm not an electrical engineer.

 

[captainbigun]

AC locos supply ETS in AC, not DC. It’s straight off a tertiary winding on the main transformer.

CA Mk5s can run from nominal 900V ‘BR’ AC or DC or 1500V UIC AC.

To get a 3 phase output from a single phase supply you’d rectify then invert to get the three phases.

 

[greyman42]

Boiler/kitchen out of action, we were told.

So does that mean the berthed passengers will not have got any hot drinks?

 

[vlad]

The theme of knackered mk2s continues - this time sadly not resulting in a free upgrade from seats to berth - but with the lounge coach on the Fort William portion being completely out of action.

Again?

It was out-of-use due to flat batteries or something like that when I returned from Fort William in June. It was accessible to staff to use as a common room as long as they didn't mind sitting in the dark but they couldn't offer food, drink or seats.

It's a shame they gave us only about 30 minutes' notice before boarding, although perhaps they thought they'd be able to fix it.

 

[fgwrich]

I'm just off the northbound highlander at Fort William. The theme of knackered mk2s continues - this time sadly not resulting in a free upgrade from seats to berth - but with the lounge coach on the Fort William portion being completely out of action. Not just that it could serve no food or drink but was attached by what the attendant called an 'emergency coupling' meaning that there was no access to it from the sleeper coaches. Not sure exactly what was going on there.

Arrived in Fort William bang on time though.

The seated coach at the moment is one of the ones with 2+2 and tables.

That lounge coach seemed fine on the down journey on Sunday night from the Fort, so the fault must have developed during yesterday at some point. The seated Mk2 BSO is one of the vehicles on hire from Eastern Rail Services.

My recent trips on the Caley Sleeper where certainly almost poles apart from each other, not helped by having the ex Cross Country Mk2 RFO with the fixed seats (and in poor condition compared to the proper vehicles). Scottish Crews were absolutely faultless though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TBH having the 2+2 seated coach on the FW is probably no terrible idea, the best "kip" I've had on the Caley in the seats has been leaning forward onto a table.

 

[marks87]

Out of interest, are there any spare old Mk2 or Mk3 restaurant/buffet coaches around that CS could hire if lounges are starting to cause problems similar to the seats?

Obviously not the same as the sleeper lounges, but as with the replacement seats it would be passable for the Fort William at least.

 

[Scotrail84]

Out of interest, are there any spare old Mk2 or Mk3 restaurant/buffet coaches around that CS could hire if lounges are starting to cause problems similar to the seats?

Obviously not the same as the sleeper lounges, but as with the replacement seats it would be passable for the Fort William at least.

I dont think there are any spares readily available that wouldn't require work done to them such as having the call buttons and fire alarm panels fitted to them.

Could only be MK2 buffets anyway. M3's would be no good