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Caledonian Sleeper discussion

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47271

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I've checked with those who use the service far more regularly than me and have been provided with the following politician spottings from the past five years or so, all on separate occasions in the lounge of Glasgow section of the Lowlander:

Wendy Alexander
Douglas Alexander
Mhairi Black, with an annoying group of hangers on.

There may have been others too obscure to recognise, but that's it, and no sightings of Kirsty Wark either.

I believe that the sadly deceased Charles Kennedy was a regular on the Fort William section of the Highlander.
Sorry a late entry just in, Jack McConnell, The Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale as he is now, former First Minister of Scotland. On the southbound Highlander, joined at Stirling, where he lives.
 
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pitdiver

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Can I ask a hope a hypothetical question. If I was travelling on the northbound Royal Highlander in the middle of winter and we got stuck in a snowstorm say in the middle of Rannoch Moor what would happen. As a matter of interest has this ever happened and what was the outcome.
 

TimboM

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Thank you, very helpful. So if their business model is faulty, and given that 2020 will be the very earliest that the impact of the new trains is felt, then potentially we all have a problem!
As it stands, the new trains are due in Spring 2019 (with subsequent off-leasing of the old stock) so - assuming that date is achieved - there could be 6-9 months benefit from the new trains in 2019. I also doubt the way the franchise is set up that the service could be allowed to somehow cease.

Not entirely sure why we all have a problem? Serco Caledonian Sleepers Ltd remains a 'going concern' (in accountancy speak) by way of formal support from Serco Group plc. (note the "12 months from the date of the accounts" is the period the going concern has to be assessed over for statutory accounts; this does not mean Serco Group will pull the plug in March 2019...).

upload_2018-10-21_14-52-43.png
 

47271

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The problem is just that more public money than expected will be required to run the service.
 

paul1609

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Can I ask a hope a hypothetical question. If I was travelling on the northbound Royal Highlander in the middle of winter and we got stuck in a snowstorm say in the middle of Rannoch Moor what would happen. As a matter of interest has this ever happened and what was the outcome.
I dont think that the train has been stuck on Rannoch Moor for many years. I think that these days it is unlikely the train would run North of Crianlarich if there was a danger of being stopped or more likely Glasgow.
I reckon that in the event of heavy snow northbound you would physically come to a halt at County March Summit (between Tyndrum Upper and Bridge of Orchy) where the railway runs through a cutting before reaching Rannoch moor anyway.
 

RLBH

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I dont think that the train has been stuck on Rannoch Moor for many years. I think that these days it is unlikely the train would run North of Crianlarich if there was a danger of being stopped or more likely Glasgow.
I reckon that in the event of heavy snow northbound you would physically come to a halt at County March Summit (between Tyndrum Upper and Bridge of Orchy) where the railway runs through a cutting before reaching Rannoch moor anyway.
I don't know about the sleeper getting stranded on Rannoch Moor, but I've heard of Mountain Rescue being sent out to a day train that got stranded near Slochd in serious winter conditions.
 

pitdiver

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Thanks for the responses, The reason I said Mid Winter is that am I not right in saying it would still be dark as they crossed the moor.
 

InOban

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I think they close the line proactively, and send a class 37 up and down until the weather clears. Much easier than risking a stuck train with passengers.
 

uww11x

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Engineering works that have been planned for months, so hopefully they’ll have known what they were letting themselves in for.

At least they get the treat of 2x 73/9s once they finally make it onto the train.

Not too bad then!
 

Scotrail84

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Engineering works that have been planned for months, so hopefully they’ll have known what they were letting themselves in for.

At least they get the treat of 2x 73/9s once they finally make it onto the train.

Not too bad then!

Apart from them being unable to haul the load 11 and keep to time. Struggled up the hill from Inverness then a loco fault further South made 1M16 about 60 late in total.
 

31160

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Engineering works that have been planned for months, so hopefully they’ll have known what they were letting themselves in for.

At least they get the treat of 2x 73/9s once they finally make it onto the train.

Didn't they trust the 67 being able to haul the load 11? I remember having a single 67 on load 12? On a charter going up the Lickey and it having had to be banked up with a shed or was it being able to get up with all the ETH demands as well
 

TimboM

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Apart from them being unable to haul the load 11 and keep to time. Struggled up the hill from Inverness then a loco fault further South made 1M16 about 60 late in total.
Good job the Class 92 (033) was able to pull it out of the bag with a 1E arrival (vs Public Timetable) into Euston :)
Didn't they trust the 67 being able to haul the load 11? I remember having a single 67 on load 12? On a charter going up the Lickey and it having had to be banked up with a shed or was it being able to get up with all the ETH demands as well
Presumably not as that was put on Aberdeen Sat morning/Sun night. If 2x 73/9s struggled up the hill, I suspect 1x 67 would've too - rail adhesion issues?
 

Scotrail84

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Didn't they trust the 67 being able to haul the load 11? I remember having a single 67 on load 12? On a charter going up the Lickey and it having had to be banked up with a shed or was it being able to get up with all the ETH demands as well


Unable to heat 11 veh's apparently.
 

Scotrail84

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Good job the Class 92 (033) was able to pull it out of the bag with a 1E arrival (vs Public Timetable) into Euston :)

Presumably not as that was put on Aberdeen Sat morning/Sun night. If 2x 73/9s struggled up the hill, I suspect 1x 67 would've too - rail adhesion issues?


With a little help from the very generous timings between Abington and Carlisle on a Monday morning.

73s are too light to haul a load 11, I think it was a brake fault that delayed it further South as well as missing its path elsewhere, I think there was adhesion issues as well.
 

PaxVobiscum

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What happened to 1Y11 (northbound Ft William) today to make it nearly 5 hours late in arriving? 12 late at Newbridge Jn then disappeared. I ask because having been up at a silly time (to run a family member to Glasgow Airport for an early flight) I decided to try to grab a photo of said Sleeper on its way to Queen Street and gave up after hanging about a chilly platform for over half an hour. No useful information to be had other than “delayed”. Real Time Trains nae use at all.

BTW, I can confirm a sighting of Kirsty W. a few years ago in ScotRail days. The attendant tried (unsuccessfully) to bump my wife and myself out our carefully chosen adjoining first class compartments to let her have her usual, but K.W. said it was OK and we stayed. (My wife knows her anyway).
 

158820

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Overrunning engineering works at Dumbarton. Installing a bridge plenty seen on plenty about it on twitter from Network rail Scotland
 

InOban

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The bridge was on the Balloch branch. It was overrunning relaying of Dalreoch junction that blocked everything beyond Dumbarton. Line reopened at 11.00
 

sannox

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The bridge was on the Balloch branch. It was overrunning relaying of Dalreoch junction that blocked everything beyond Dumbarton. Line reopened at 11.00

Bridge was Bonhill Road was it not? Just outside Dumbarton Central?
 

InOban

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You're quite right. I was misled by the references to Bonhill , it made me think it was on the branch . Should have checked on Google maps!
 

TimboM

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73s are too light to haul a load 11, I think it was a brake fault that delayed it further South as well as missing its path elsewhere, I think there was adhesion issues as well.
A single 73/9 has hauled a Load 8 + 2x Class 92s, which is the equivalent of a Load 14. It wasn't on a pancake flat route either.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I posted a couple of weeks ago, comparing SNCF's pricing policy favourably compared to that on the Cally. I'm now an hour into my journey and so far, I may have to revise my position...

The seated coach my reservation is in turned out to be a couchette car which I'd walked 200m down the platform to discover, so I walked back to ask the staff checking tickets but was told to board and they'd sort it out once we were on the move. I haven't seen a single member of staff since departure and am on board the only seated coach, one which is bound for Toulouse rather than my booked destination of Latour de Carol. It's 10pm local time but if I fall asleep I may wake up in the wrong destination without a valid ticket. The coach smells horrible (not sure if that's the toilet or a passenger who keeps laissez leur tripes tomber) and while the seats are very comfortable and the lighting is nicely muted, the walls are covered in horrible coarse fabric that feels like a Brillo pad. There's also no catering or lounge car, so even if the service was as advertised they're missing out on the tourism market (apart from mugs like me).

There's probably a happy medium between the expensive policy of Serco CS, and the demi-fesse-d SNCF way. If anyone can come up with it, they may be able to save both the French and British sleeper services. Nightjet anyone?

Late night edit: having spoken to the Chef du train in my best pidgin Frallemanglais, I've been upgraded to a 6-berth couchette cabin all of my own. Had to follow him with my baggage right down from the rear coach to the second (only nine coaches due to short formation, but the long Corail stock made it feel like I was walking all the way to the Spanish border. He was very helpful, apologetic and friendly (and spoke better English than any of the platform staff at Gare d'Austerlitz) and thus saved SNCF from reputational damage. He explained that the seated coach from the Latour de Carol portion had a fault, and was replaced with a spare couchette car because that was all that was available. He said that the station staff had announced the change (in French too fast for me to make out clearly, but not in any other language- the French aren't so accommodating of regional tongues such as Catalan) and apologised again that I wasn't informed. I explained (in English of course) that they weren't to know that there was someone on board trying to remember school French lessons from 20 years before!

So on reflection, while not going for the premium market might mean SNCF are missing the American tourist market, they aren't doing too bad. The brillo-pad walls of the seated coach could do with changing, but the seats themselves were fine. If the seated coach that should've been there was, I'd have been fine with it. No doubt I'll wish for a cup of coffee in the morning but it won't be the end of the world. I don't know how much of a loss this service makes but then again the stock is state owned (and amortised) and the staff are all state employees, so it can be cross subsidised. I imagine that operators of both ICN and CS could probably learn a few things from each other, to be honest.
 
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TimboM

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1S25: 90046 + 90045
1S26: 92044

86401 very likely to be doing the Carstairs portion again tonight.
 

Highland37

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I posted a couple of weeks ago, comparing SNCF's pricing policy favourably compared to that on the Cally. I'm now an hour into my journey and so far, I may have to revise my position...

The seated coach my reservation is in turned out to be a couchette car which I'd walked 200m down the platform to discover, so I walked back to ask the staff checking tickets but was told to board and they'd sort it out once we were on the move. I haven't seen a single member of staff since departure and am on board the only seated coach, one which is bound for Toulouse rather than my booked destination of Latour de Carol. It's 10pm local time but if I fall asleep I may wake up in the wrong destination without a valid ticket. The coach smells horrible (not sure if that's the toilet or a passenger who keeps laissez leur tripes tomber) and while the seats are very comfortable and the lighting is nicely muted, the walls are covered in horrible coarse fabric that feels like a Brillo pad. There's also no catering or lounge car, so even if the service was as advertised they're missing out on the tourism market (apart from mugs like me).

There's probably a happy medium between the expensive policy of Serco CS, and the demi-fesse-d SNCF way. If anyone can come up with it, they may be able to save both the French and British sleeper services. Nightjet anyone?

Late night edit: having spoken to the Chef du train in my best pidgin Frallemanglais, I've been upgraded to a 6-berth couchette cabin all of my own. Had to follow him with my baggage right down from the rear coach to the second (only nine coaches due to short formation, but the long Corail stock made it feel like I was walking all the way to the Spanish border. He was very helpful, apologetic and friendly (and spoke better English than any of the platform staff at Gare d'Austerlitz) and thus saved SNCF from reputational damage. He explained that the seated coach from the Latour de Carol portion had a fault, and was replaced with a spare couchette car because that was all that was available. He said that the station staff had announced the change (in French too fast for me to make out clearly, but not in any other language- the French aren't so accommodating of regional tongues such as Catalan) and apologised again that I wasn't informed. I explained (in English of course) that they weren't to know that there was someone on board trying to remember school French lessons from 20 years before!

So on reflection, while not going for the premium market might mean SNCF are missing the American tourist market, they aren't doing too bad. The brillo-pad walls of the seated coach could do with changing, but the seats themselves were fine. If the seated coach that should've been there was, I'd have been fine with it. No doubt I'll wish for a cup of coffee in the morning but it won't be the end of the world. I don't know how much of a loss this service makes but then again the stock is state owned (and amortised) and the staff are all state employees, so it can be cross subsidised. I imagine that operators of both ICN and CS could probably learn a few things from each other, to be honest.

How do you book the couchettes online?
 
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