Caledonian Sleeper

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Essexman, 10 Jan 2019.

  1. Mingulay

    Mingulay Member

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    Not suggesting that . But given recorded incidents and anecdotal customer feedback from trip advisor . Any Transport Dept should put an official observer on every service with a clip board to record all defects , delays , poor service , and good service from staff . You then look at that against the service spec and force improvements , levy fines as is reasonable . But I am glad they are being punished . Could be another Carillion ?
     
  2. kristiang85

    kristiang85 Member

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    Indeed. I just saw this article pop up on Twitter too - https://www.huckmag.com/places/a-chaotic-night-on-britains-new-caledonian-sleeper/

    To quote one bit:

    To go to your point of tourism, my girlfriend and I started taking the sleeper up to see my parents near Edinburgh as a pleasant alternative to flying. But with all these nightmare stories, and weekends too small to waste time with delays or lack of sleep, we will definitely be using the plane in the coming months if we make the trip. Extrapolate that over many people, it really can't be great for them.
     
  3. Dr Hoo

    Dr Hoo Established Member

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    Are Caledonian Sleeper not already under some sort of ‘SQUIRE’ checking/mystery shopping regime like the ScotRail franchise then?
     
  4. Highlandspring

    Highlandspring Established Member

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    Yes CS is covered by SQUIRE.
     
  5. WesternLancer

    WesternLancer Established Member

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    Booked a ticket in may with CS by phone and got tickets e-mailed

    2 days after the trip I got a CS survey
    1 day later I got the TF survey

    did them both. I regarded the TF survey as better structured and more 'probing' - but it was TF commissioned by CS IIRC (as opposed to say by Transport Scotland)
     
  6. urpert

    urpert Member

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    The software powering Southeastern's platform PIS has just started doing that ("This train is currently at Lewisham").
     
  7. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    I don't know which thread you're reading, but the consensus on the 195s is yes, okay, teething troubles as with any new train, but it's minor stuff. Overall, they are really, really very good indeed.
    Obviously time will tell, but it would seem like CAF have done some good work with the Northern units.
     
  8. 387gwr

    387gwr Member

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    How many Mark 5 are in service now?
     
  9. MrEd

    MrEd Member

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    Can someone enlighten me here: now that the Lowlander has gone over to Mk5 operation, what is the typical diagram for each Mk2/Mk3 half-set? How often does each half-set visit Polmadie, and is any maintenance on the Mk2s/3s still carried out at Wembley? The only reason I ask is that the Mk5s have taken over on the Lowlander, so the full rakes of Mk2s/3s never reach Glasgow in passenger service. Are any spare Mk2/3 vehicles available at Wembley in case of failure during the day?
     
  10. Justapunter

    Justapunter Member

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    I love it. You criticise the railway (in this case perfectly valid and relevant criticism of the sleeper service and its issues) and the mods go deleting. And suggesting off topic. As ever. It’s all a bit Chinese....
     
  11. TimboM

    TimboM Established Member

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    Right now just the two full sets (4x 8-car "units") on the Lowlander.
     
  12. USRailFan

    USRailFan Member

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    How many operable Mk3 sleepers are there all in all (including the ones GWR use)?
     
  13. USRailFan

    USRailFan Member

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    They could take a GWR and convert Mk3 coaches to replace the Mk2s...
     
  14. USRailFan

    USRailFan Member

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    Aren't they re-engined and have close to the equivalent power of a Class 37?
     
  15. RLBH

    RLBH Member

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    A 16-coach Mark 3 rake with top-and-tail locos won't fit into the platforms at Euston. The 12 metres that are saved by having four Mark 2s in the rake is that critical, and is the reason why Mark 5 coaches are 22 metres long.

    A comprehensive refurbishment to a common standard of the Mark 2s and Mark 3s would also be very time-consuming (see the Scotrail HSTs) and would only really be good for 10 years or so, at which point new coaches would have to be ordered or the service abandoned.
     
  16. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    That would make the overall train 12m longer (4 x 23m instead of 4 x 20m), and so not fit into Euston. It could be done, but they'd have to reduce the number of sleepers by 1 to do so (in practice probably 2 so the half-sets aren't messed up). If this goes on too much longer, though, they might find they have to do so.

    This is the precise reason why the Mk5s are 22m long instead of the more usual 23-24m.
     
  17. USRailFan

    USRailFan Member

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    Didn't they run half-sets of different lengths back in the early 90s tho? I think I read something about Glasgow sets having one or two fewer cars than Edinburgh ones?
     
  18. marks87

    marks87 Established Member

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    I know we're now getting into the realms of fantasy - and I sense a punt to the "speculative ideas" section if we're not careful ;) - but if coaches were being converted anyway, would it be entirely out of the question to give the "new" seated coaches driving cabs purely for the purpose of the empty stock move into Euston (while also retaining a corridor connection - so looking a bit like the end of a Sprinter)?

    Do the existing Mk3 sleepers have the necessary cabling to facilitate push-pull working?
     
  19. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Probably a lot more expensive to fit 5 (?) coaches with cabs than use one loco.
     
  20. marks87

    marks87 Established Member

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    Yes, of course; but I was thinking of solutions to the length problem. Cutting out one loco frees up more than enough space to replace the 4 Mk2s with Mk3s.

    It would come down to whether there would a benefit to keeping the train at full-length over the cost of fitting cabs to coaches that would be going under refurbishment anyway.
     
  21. USRailFan

    USRailFan Member

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    10 years would more than suffice for a total overhaul of the MkVs. Even if the MkVs turn out to be complete failures and completely new stock needs to be ordered, 10-12 years should probably suffice.
     
  22. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The likely impact of a decision to refurbish Mk3s instead of buy new is the service ending in 10-15 years. Though HS2 might well ruin the economics of it, anyway. Or we might find the economics improved by swingeing low-carbon restrictions...

    Either way the Mk2s need to go, they are knackered.
     
  23. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    Indeed they are; the Caledonian Sleeper class 73s are fitted with an MTU engine producing 1600hp - A full 1000hp more than a "traditional" class 73 and only 150hp less than a 37.

    I'm unsure of their power at rail, but based on the figures for the two 'prototype' class 73 upgrades (73951/952) which have slightly less installed power than the Caledonian Sleeper examples, they may very well produce more than the 1250hp continuous output of a class 37 at the railhead.
     
    Last edited: 3 Jul 2019
  24. RLBH

    RLBH Member

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    In the early 1990s (and before) there were separate trains for each destination, so while the individual portions were longer - 7/9 sleepers plus lounge car, seated cars (typically a TSO and BSO) and any extra vans - they needed more, rather than longer, platforms. Reverting to that mode of operation would massively increase operating costs.
     
  25. USRailFan

    USRailFan Member

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    Right so they even ran separate Glasgow and Edinburgh sleepers?
     
  26. RLBH

    RLBH Member

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    Five trains a night - though I believe on Saturdays Fort William was a portion off of the Inverness train, bringing it down to four.

    Actually six a night, because there was a Plymouth service with portions from Glasgow and Edinburgh that was stopped in 1994.
     
  27. Steve Harris

    Steve Harris Member

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  28. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    On the basis that no news is good news, can we assume that all services this week have run, and more or less to time, except for defective Mk2 lounges etc?
     
  29. mralexn

    mralexn Member

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    There were reports yesterday that the Southbound Inverness portion was short formed, so some passengers had to travel by bus to Edinburgh and meet the full train there.
     
  30. Caleb2010

    Caleb2010 Member

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    Something must be going right, this thread was half way down the first page when I looked instead of semi permanently in the top 3
     

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