Cambrian Six Car DMU's Scuppered by Network Rail metal fencing

[Gareth Marston]

You know when you feel like you're banging your head against the wall...?

I've never claimed that the introduction of ERTMS has been trouble-free - we all know there have been numerous issues, and I think the passengers on the Cambrian are justified in being upset at the various cases of disruption. If I've understood the situation correctly, it's one of those issues preventing sets being joined at Machynlleth - it's not NR "not allowing" it, but rather a shortcoming of the ERTMS installation that will, I'm sure, be resolved. I don't know what's gone wrong at Llandudno, but it sounds very much like an error that's gone unnoticed - planning something unworkable. The local management, faced with something that presumably won't work without disrupting some part of the 'regular' service, seem to have done the right thing by coming up with the alternative solution of starting the tour at Llandudno Junction.

What I have tried to say though, is that it's neither the fault of the ERTMS installation nor Network Rail that there's no facility for permissive working at Aberystwyth. If there had been a case for providing such a facility, then no doubt the TOC would have pushed for it to be included in the specification.

The first train from Machynlleth to Pwllheli in the early morning splits at Barmouth with rear unit detached forming the 0648 ish Barmouth to Pwllheli. Presumably there must be some sort of permissive working arrangement there?
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This matter is NOT ERTMS related.

Aberystwyth station has no provision for permissive working (which is what two 158 units coupling together would be) This is different from a loco(s) running round a train.

Furthermore the 0930 ex Aberystwyth is never busy as the 1730 ex Aber.

Try getting on the 0930 at Newtown/Welshpool!!! Your senior managers choice- though driven by the fact the unit was there already.

1730 - a lot get off at Borth - often without paying.

 

[Tomnick]

The first train from Machynlleth to Pwllheli in the early morning splits at Barmouth with rear unit detached forming the 0648 ish Barmouth to Pwllheli. Presumably there must be some sort of permissive working arrangement there?

I can't find any trace of that working, but I'll take your word for it! I don't know what the arrangements are at Barmouth, but generally splitting is much easier to arrange than joining - as you're not trying to bring a passenger train into an occupied section at any point.

 

[OxtedL]

The first train from Machynlleth to Pwllheli in the early morning splits at Barmouth with rear unit detached forming the 0648 ish Barmouth to Pwllheli. Presumably there must be some sort of permissive working arrangement there?

Doesn't look like this happens any more.

 

[Rogercas]

According to the current timetable the Barmouth split of the early morning train from Mach to Pwllheli no longer occurs.

There is a second short working to Barmouth following the Pwllheli train which then forms the 06.48 return to Mach.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Doesn't look like this happens any more.

No it doesn't it did for donkeys years but looking at it now there's 0513 MCH to Pwllheli in the public tt followed at 0530 by a MCH to Barmouth working also in the public tt!!

The 0646 departure is from Barmouth to BHM INTL

 

[tirphil]

The Barmouth split no longer takes place.

I have no idea what the issue was or why the change has taken place. Their are rumours, but they have no place here.

 

[merlodlliw]

The Barmouth split no longer takes place.

I have no idea what the issue was or why the change has taken place. Their are rumours, but they have no place here.

And finally, Plaid AM for Dwyfor Meirionnydd Dafydd Elis-Thomas as requested the introduction of a Pwllheli to Cardiff rail service, to further unite Wales.
He states he travels almost daily so says today's Daily Post.
Well if it was by rail from Pwllheli it would take a day to get there.He did not let slip he uses wagair & also has a home in Cardiff

The article is not on the web. But others will confirm the article

Put up for interest. Someone better tell him about ERTMS

 

[Gareth Marston]

And finally, Plaid AM for Dwyfor Meirionnydd Dafydd Elis-Thomas as requested the introduction of a Pwllheli to Cardiff rail service, to further unite Wales.
He states he travels almost daily so says today's Daily Post.
Well if it was by rail from Pwllheli it would take a day to get there.He did not let slip he uses wagair & also has a home in Cardiff

The article is not on the web. But others will confirm the article

Put up for interest. Someone better tell him about ERTMS

looks likes its in degraded mode tonight just seen 1930 ex Abr got past about 40 late making no effort to accelerate away from Newtown. Had thunder lightning and heavy rain this evening though.

 

[PHILIPE]

I have just seen the BBC Travel news and it mentions disruption between Newtown and Welshpool due to flooding so I wonder if the slow start from Newtown was due to it having been warned to travel at caution for this reason.

 

[jones_bangor]

And finally, Plaid AM for Dwyfor Meirionnydd Dafydd Elis-Thomas as requested the introduction of a Pwllheli to Cardiff rail service, to further unite Wales.
He states he travels almost daily so says today's Daily Post.
Well if it was by rail from Pwllheli it would take a day to get there.He did not let slip he uses wagair & also has a home in Cardiff

The article is not on the web. But others will confirm the article

Put up for interest. Someone better tell him about ERTMS

Agree it would be a l.......ong journey, but there is merit in a Aber - Cardiff service.

Strange how WG will find money for Valleys Line electification, but Aber - Carmarthen re-opening is in the long grass.

 

[Masboroughlad]

Strange how WG will find money for Valleys Line electification, but Aber - Carmarthen re-opening is in the long grass.

Pity, because a line down the west would have many advantages. Maybe one day?!

 

[merlodlliw]

Agree it would be a l.......ong journey, but there is merit in a Aber - Cardiff service.

Strange how WG will find money for Valleys Line electification, but Aber - Carmarthen re-opening is in the long grass.

and the long grass has not been cut yet But hey the varsityline is to reopen, so who went to Oxbridge then,one for the boys, btw the article never mentioned the Carmarthen route,so perhaps not so daft.
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looks likes its in degraded mode tonight just seen 1930 ex Abr got past about 40 late making no effort to accelerate away from Newtown. Had thunder lightning and heavy rain this evening though.

Newtown on sea comes to mind,but its getting serious now,where I live up the mountain from Wrexham it poured down all day,has it as done for three months but no T & L.

 

[The Informer]

and the long grass has not been cut yet But hey the varsityline is to reopen, so who went to Oxbridge then,one for the boys, btw the article never mentioned the Carmarthen route,so perhaps not so daft.
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Newtown on sea comes to mind,but its getting serious now,where I live up the mountain from Wrexham it poured down all day,has it as done for three months but no T & L.

1j23 was trapped at Newtown. Track totally flooded.

 

[Gareth Marston]

1j23 was trapped at Newtown. Track totally flooded.

Not surprised the storm was something! The road down our hill was like a river.
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Agree it would be a l.......ong journey, but there is merit in a Aber - Cardiff service.

Strange how WG will find money for Valleys Line electification, but Aber - Carmarthen re-opening is in the long grass.

I thought WG was still playing the "London must pay" game?

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Agree it would be a l.......ong journey, but there is merit in a Aber - Cardiff service.

Strange how WG will find money for Valleys Line electification, but Aber - Carmarthen re-opening is in the long grass.

It is already a long journey, not helped by the changes at Shrewsbury and Machynlleth. A through train would take a sizeable chunk out of the time.

You're making a pretty big assumption that the WG is finding money from somewhere to finance Valley Lines electrification unless you know something that the rest of us don't.

Aberystwyth - Swansea, not Aberystwyth - Carmarthen remains an aspiration for the long term. Some of us might live to see it but, at my age, it will remain an aspiration.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It is already a long journey, not helped by the changes at Shrewsbury and Machynlleth. A through train would take a sizeable chunk out of the time.

You're making a pretty big assumption that the WG is finding money from somewhere to finance Valley Lines electrification unless you know something that the rest of us don't.

Aberystwyth - Swansea, not Aberystwyth - Carmarthen remains an aspiration for the long term. Some of us might live to see it but, at my age, it will remain an aspiration.

There's no changing at Machynlleth anymore as 6 trains a day run through from Pwllheli to BHM INTL. Waits at Salop are 15 toward Cardiff and 8 in the reverse.
There's no market for a through train to Cardiff - a through Cambrian train to Manchester would be far more sensible.

 

[tirphil]

This matter is NOT ERTMS related.

Aberystwyth station has no provision for permissive working (which is what two 158 units coupling together would be) This is different from a loco(s) running round a train.

Latest WON22 now shows permissive working as permitted within the limits of Aberystwyth station platform line.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Latest WON22 now shows permissive working as permitted within the limits of Aberystwyth station platform line.

Thanks Tirpill - any indication that ATW will join up 0624 ex New St & 0807 ex Machynlleth for winter?

 

[greatkingrat]

Looking at OpenTraintimes, the ECS 5J28 0950 Aberystwyth - Machynlleth is no longer shown from December which suggests it will be attached to the 0930 to Brum.

 

[RPI]

Would ATW not benefit from making some 3 car 158's? quite often when i've been over the cambrian lines it seems that most trains to Pwllheli could certainly do with being longer than 2 cars and some of the Aberystwyths could do with 5 cars.

 

[anthony263]

Would ATW not benefit from making some 3 car 158's? quite often when i've been over the cambrian lines it seems that most trains to Pwllheli could certainly do with being longer than 2 cars and some of the Aberystwyths could do with 5 cars.

I suppose they could do something similar to FGW if they had additional rolling stock to cover for the class 158's that would be split up to strengthen others to 3 carriages.

Perhaps if FGW get the class 165/166's and those are cleared to work to Portsmouth Hbr perhaps ATW could take some of FGW's class 158's.

Come 2018 ATW should have a number of class 150's available when the valley lines are wired and the swanline services get worked using emu's

 

[Gareth Marston]

Looking at OpenTraintimes, the ECS 5J28 0950 Aberystwyth - Machynlleth is no longer shown from December which suggests it will be attached to the 0930 to Brum.

One tt period late on promise which is not bad for Arriva after all it took 5 years for them to run the trains on the Cambrian on time!
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Would ATW not benefit from making some 3 car 158's? quite often when i've been over the cambrian lines it seems that most trains to Pwllheli could certainly do with being longer than 2 cars and some of the Aberystwyths could do with 5 cars.

The coast trade is very much associated with peak periods and within that busier days. The demand for extra capacity into Aberystwyth is more consistent all year round but is also based around certain days/times of year. Its also driven by the weather forecast - sunny days on Cardigan Bay see extra numbers.

 

[RPI]

One tt period late on promise which is not bad for Arriva after all it took 5 years for them to run the trains on the Cambrian on time!
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The coast trade is very much associated with peak periods and within that busier days. The demand for extra capacity into Aberystwyth is more consistent all year round but is also based around certain days/times of year. Its also driven by the weather forecast - sunny days on Cardigan Bay see extra numbers.

I must say I have only ever been that way during the summer.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I used to commute from Newtown to Machynlleth mid week trains off the coast arriving at Machynlleth often had just single figures of passengers going forward to Shrewsbury and beyond. The weekends pick up a bit even in winter.

Aberystwyth sees the students in winter which generate a bit of traffic. The end of the 1st term in December is usually chaotic with passengers left behind at Aberystwyth on the Friday not uncommon.
Any holiday period or Friday night sees more traveling.
Apart from holidays the westbound trains tend to thin out beyond Newtown. The demand is suppressed at the eastern end as theirs no sensibly timed commuter train into Shrewsbury from the Cambrian, arrivals at 0711 or 0924.

A 3 car with connections at Machynlleth for coast would probably suffice for most Mon-Thu services outside of holiday periods the 4 car units can look a bit overkill on a Wednesday in late January. But come the weekends and holidays you need more stock.

 

[PHILIPE]

The problem with forming 3 Car 158s similar to FGW is that the majority of trains split and combine at Machynlleth for Aberystwyth and Coast and at Shrewsbury with dropping off and attaching to Birmingham to Holyheads. 3 Coaches may be preferable for Aberystwyth in an ideal but there are no resources to do this in the real world. Any surplus 150s would be unsuitable for diagrams involving the Cambrian because of the 158 necessity on the route.

 

[tirphil]

Thanks Tirpill - any indication that ATW will join up 0624 ex New St & 0807 ex Machynlleth for winter?

Apologies Gareth but I really don't know what the intention is.

 

[PHILIPE]

Looking at OpenTraintimes, the ECS 5J28 0950 Aberystwyth - Machynlleth is no longer shown from December which suggests it will be attached to the 0930 to Brum.

Diagrammed to attach from September. Opentraintimes not available for December yet anyway