Campaign to restore passenger services on the Middlewich Link Line

[backontrack]

A Cheshire East town may be getting a new railway - could there be a potential rivalry with Prestbury? Probably salt, cheese and silk handbags at dawn...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

AstraZeneca continues to invest at their Macclesfield production facility.

I am aware of that fact, knowing someone who now works there, but this is not the same as their flagship sized presence was at Nether Alderley.

Congratulations on making your mark on the local Council elections.

 

[QueensCurve]

IKnutsford used to have 2 buses to St Nicholas High School, 1 bus to Sir John Deanes College and 1 bus to Mid-Cheshire college. The council withdrew subsides for school/college buses and Northern introduced reduced price scholar seasons tickets as an attempt to get all school/college pupils using season tickets.

Did you have to mention Sir John Deanes College? :cry::cry:

 

[no commute yet]

Hi, access to the schools and colleges at Greenbank is one of the reasons Middlewich and Sandbach want the Middlewich Link Line passenger trains back.
Here's a BBC Radio Manchester/Stoke report from last week about the line: http://nekodesu.moe/middlewichrailradio.m4a

 

[backontrack]

Would you want services to run from Middlewich to Chester, or to run over the curve from Middlewich to Greenbank, then reverse into Manchester?

 

[pemma]

Would you want services to run from Middlewich to Chester, or to run over the curve from Middlewich to Greenbank, then reverse into Manchester?

Feasibility report suggested the 06:30 and 07:30 Chester-Stockport* services could be cut in two at Northwich to allow 2 x morning Crewe to Stockport* services and 2 x morning Chester to Northwich services

* These should be extended to Manchester from the December 2017 timetable change regardless of what happens (if anything) with the Middlewich branch. The feasibility report doesn't allow for the additional services being introduced at the December 2017 timetable change.

 

[QueensCurve]

Hi, access to the schools and colleges at Greenbank is one of the reasons Middlewich and Sandbach want the Middlewich Link Line passenger trains back.
Here's a BBC Radio Manchester/Stoke report from last week about the line: http://nekodesu.moe/middlewichrailradio.m4a

Just that my time at Sir John Deane's in the 1970s was not the happiest.

 

[theshillito]

I live in Crewe and work in Knutsford, so I'd be leaning towards the services that would take me all the way there, but if there was a quick connection going north if the service terminated/reversed at Northwich, then that could also be useful. Then again, I might just move to Altrincham or Lostock Gralam haha!

 

[Amberley54]

I am aware of that fact, knowing someone who now works there, but this is not the same as their flagship sized presence was at Nether Alderley.

Congratulations on making your mark on the local Council elections.

Thanks.

 

[no commute yet]

Reinstating Middlewich station needs be a stand alone project so it won't get caught up in the proposals to move Basford Hall to Middlewich. The Cheshire East Council leader has said that he supports the aspiration for the passenger service in anticipation of high speed rail. In an interview with Phil McCann for the BBC - broadcast at the weekend- he seems to be saying...well who knows? Does not fit for purpose mean for a freight depot? Does it mean because there's a plan to double track and electrify it for a top of the range passenger service? Does anyone actually know?

http://nekodesu.moe/middlewichrailradio2.m4a

Whatever happens, the passenger trains need to be a stand alone phase one of any mega project plan for the area because the land, access and track for that are already available and ready to go.

Meanwhile, NR are saying they'll listen to proposals for the passenger service - as long as there continues to be support for it. Are we somehow failing to let NR know there's support for it?

 

[MarkRedon]

This news-resources website reports that the local weekly paper the Winsford and Middlewich Guardian has put its "full weight" behind the campaign to reopen Middlewich station. See:
http://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/2...ht-behind-campaign-to-revive-towns-rail-link/

Every little helps! But: is this the most deserving reopening project? The costs are likely to be "reasonable" - but they come from finite capital budgets. Is this project going to have a better financial outturn, or a greater impact on - say - reduced social deprivation by means of greater mobility, congestion, network benefits etc. than - say - Colne <-> Skipton, South East Northumberland, Ripon or Keswick? I'm only asking the question!

 

[pemma]

This news-resources website reports that the local weekly paper the Winsford and Middlewich Guardian has put its "full weight" behind the campaign to reopen Middlewich station. See:
http://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/2...ht-behind-campaign-to-revive-towns-rail-link/

Every little helps! But: is this the most deserving reopening project? The costs are likely to be "reasonable" - but they come from finite capital budgets. Is this project going to have a better financial outturn, or a greater impact on - say - reduced social deprivation by means of greater mobility, congestion, network benefits etc. than - say - Colne <-> Skipton, South East Northumberland, Ripon or Keswick? I'm only asking the question!

Based on the BCR, services on the Middlewich line should be 10 times more successful than those on the Borders railway.

 

[theshillito]

This news-resources website reports that the local weekly paper the Winsford and Middlewich Guardian has put its "full weight" behind the campaign to reopen Middlewich station. See:
http://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/2...ht-behind-campaign-to-revive-towns-rail-link/

Every little helps! But: is this the most deserving reopening project? The costs are likely to be "reasonable" - but they come from finite capital budgets. Is this project going to have a better financial outturn, or a greater impact on - say - reduced social deprivation by means of greater mobility, congestion, network benefits etc. than - say - Colne <-> Skipton, South East Northumberland, Ripon or Keswick? I'm only asking the question!

I know that Colne to Skipton involves rails that don't already exist, not sure about the others. In terms of money invested to getting it back again, the Middlewich line seems like a no-brainer, especially if the old feasibility study is to be believed.

 

[pemma]

especially if the old feasibility study is to be believed.

You could actually say it shouldn't be believed as it was done in 2008 using the most up-to-date information available at the time. Since then the growth at stations since it has been done is as follows:

Crewe: 32%
Sandbach: 15%
Northwich: 33%
Knutsford: 72%
Altrincham: 67%

Because of the growth at the latter 3 additional Northwich to Manchester services have been specified in the ITT for the next franchise. The feasibility report commented that whether additional services could be introduced on the Greater Manchester section of the line (beyond Altrincham) was outside the scope of the report.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You could actually say it shouldn't be believed as it was done in 2008 using the most up-to-date information available at the time. Since then the growth at stations since it has been done is as follows:
Crewe: 32%
Sandbach: 15%
Northwich: 33%
Knutsford: 72%
Altrincham: 67%

I wonder why the growth figure for Sandbach is so low compared to the others, considering it is based in Elworth with its large industrial units complex.

 

[pemma]

Looking at figures for Sandbach and other stations between Crewe and Alderley Edge it looks like they were doing well for increasing passenger numbers until 2008 and then growth dropped off. I imagine the withdrawal of a morning peak Crewe to Manchester stopper to allow Virgin to run VHF caused that. While VHF also had an effect on peak time Mid Cheshire services, the Mid Cheshire line has seen significant increases in the number of passengers travelling away from Manchester in the morning peak and towards it in the evening peak.

However, 15% growth isn`t bad, it`s just not as impressive as other stations in the area.

 

[BigVern]

Meanwhile, NR are saying they'll listen to proposals for the passenger service - as long as there continues to be support for it. Are we somehow failing to let NR know there's support for it?

Network Rail will never listen. They will only act if they are told to by Patrick McLoughlin or Cameron himself.
Network Rail told the Middlewich Campaign there was no proposal.
That led to the setting up of the Steering Group that commissioned the Consultants Report.
Despite ALL the stakeholders seeking Network Rail's response to this document, they had to be ambushed into acknowledging it existed, years after it was published. Then they demanded THREE times what it cost just to 'validate it'.

The DfT were supportive but pointed out, correctly, that the re-opening had to be backed by the local transport authority, which by then was Cheshire East Council. Yes, it is in their plan (they wouldn't dare remove it) - but when will they put money into it?

Regarding the freight terminal, surely Middlewich Station would be out of scope for that project - indeed passenger trains would get in the way.

 

[The Planner]

To be fair, you cannot expect NR to just take it at face value regardless of the other issues, even when we don't have the resource to look at something within train planning and it goes out to consultants we still have to validate the work.

As for passenger trains getting in the way of the freight, that is what a timetable is for, and how many trains are you expecting through Middlewich for it to be a problem anyway?

 

[no commute yet]

Hi The Planner, I can accept NR can't take the 2009 report at face value but I can't accept that in the 6 years since then nothing has happened. It's starting to look like this project has stalled simply because NR couldn't get anyone to pay for the validation report and wouldn't fund it themselves. I've heard the cost of the validation report was £30k? If NR had put just £6k a-side a year since then they'd have the money. What's Crossrail2 £27bn? What's as bad is that no one has been able to coordinate putting the funding together. Not NR, not DfT, not a train operator, not a council. For the 14,000 people in Middlewich, which is a town not a tiny hamlet, that's very disappointing. It gets worse though because this line connects the TfGM trams at Altrincham with Crewe. And to top it off, at a time when people are saying there needs to be more capacity on the Crewe-Manchester line, this project still isn't progressed.

Unless someone gets a grip of this, there now looks to be potential for this project to get needlessly tied up in Cheshire East's plan for a rail freight depot, which could take years to deliver- if it ever happens. I can't see why someone in the rail industry can't put a project plan together and deliver the project to put passenger trains back now.

I totally agree with your point about timetabling. Even with a twice hourly service there shouldn't be a problem. Even if there's a freight terminal there still shouldn't be a problem.

 

[The Planner]

Depends on what decision is made on Basford Hall, if its decided it needs to go as part of HS2 then whatever is decided to replace it would need to be at least partly open in 6 or so years.

 

[Bald Rick]

Hi The Planner, I can accept NR can't take the 2009 report at face value but I can't accept that in the 6 years since then nothing has happened. It's starting to look like this project has stalled simply because NR couldn't get anyone to pay for the validation report and wouldn't fund it themselves. I've heard the cost of the validation report was £30k? If NR had put just £6k a-side a year since then they'd have the money. What's Crossrail2 £27bn? What's as bad is that no one has been able to coordinate putting the funding together. Not NR, not DfT, not a train operator, not a council. For the 14,000 people in Middlewich, which is a town not a tiny hamlet, that's very disappointing. It gets worse though because this line connects the TfGM trams at Altrincham with Crewe. And to top it off, at a time when people are saying there needs to be more capacity on the Crewe-Manchester line, this project still isn't progressed.

Unless someone gets a grip of this, there now looks to be potential for this project to get needlessly tied up in Cheshire East's plan for a rail freight depot, which could take years to deliver- if it ever happens. I can't see why someone in the rail industry can't put a project plan together and deliver the project to put passenger trains back now.

I totally agree with your point about timetabling. Even with a twice hourly service there shouldn't be a problem. Even if there's a freight terminal there still shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Network Rail, and all train / freight operating companies are run as private companies, even if they are not.

This means that they will only do anything if it will make a profit, if they are paid to, or told to. (In the last case, by Government).

Advice for anyone trying to reopen a line, enhance a service, build a new station etc: get your wallet out, or find someone who will, or persuade Government.

Mind you, was it not the case that the joint bid for grant project funding for the reinstallation of the Todmorden Chord together with the restoration works for the Weaver's Triangle at Burnley which was ultimately successful led to Network Rail being presented with funding for rail improvements that were never in their plans and seemed to cause them a number of problems in fitting the rail part of the successful bid into their pre-existing planning forecasts?

 

[Bald Rick]

Mind you, was it not the case that the joint bid for grant project funding for the reinstallation of the Todmorden Chord together with the restoration works for the Weaver's Triangle at Burnley which was ultimately successful led to Network Rail being presented with funding for rail improvements that were never in their plans and seemed to cause them a number of problems in fitting the rail part of the successful bid into their pre-existing planning forecasts?

No doubt. But someone got their wallet out, and Goverment were persuaded!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No doubt. But someone got their wallet out, and Goverment were persuaded!

No need for "wallet accessing", the fund monies were already in place and the other part of the bid submission at the upgrading works at the Weavers' Triangle at Burnley saw no such procrastination.

 

[no commute yet]

I know in the past funding has been available from various sources but where could the money come from now for the Middlewich Link? Should the campaign be applying for grants and if so does anyone know of any?

 

[Bald Rick]

No need for "wallet accessing", the fund monies were already in place and the other part of the bid submission at the upgrading works at the Weavers' Triangle at Burnley saw no such procrastination.

The mere fact that 'funds were in place' means, precisely, that someone got their wallet out!

 

[bluenoxid]

I know in the past funding has been available from various sources but where could the money come from now for the Middlewich Link? Should the campaign be applying for grants and if so does anyone know of any?

You're talking a major minefield but the best advice is to chat to RailFuture who will be able to provide advice or suggestions.

GRIP1 is a key point you need to achieve, as well as all key stakeholders on side and if possible on message.

My advice is to tone down what I think sounds like whining from the Facebook page. Yes, other projects have got further and got money committed. Use them as an example that Middlewich is a realistic project.

A very similar project (although they have passenger trains running past) is Belford that I understand is battling through Grip3/4

 

[The Planner]

I would say that they have already enough for GRIP1 and probably bits of 2 as well based on other schemes, it just isnt a project yet in anyone elses eyes.

 

[MarkRedon]

I know in the past funding has been available from various sources but where could the money come from now for the Middlewich Link? Should the campaign be applying for grants and if so does anyone know of any?

I think that you have already seen a considerable amount of good advice in this thread and also a fair bit of news, including from one of the most important existing campaign groups. In addition, whatever your views about that august body, there is at least one local authority which is already enthusiastic. They will not themselves have funding for a project on this scale – ultimately some at least of it will come from central government. To put this in perspective: the budget for opening two new railway stations on an existing railway line, Kirkstall Forge and Apperley Bridge: is £16 million. For Middlewich, substantial infrastructure renewal is also essential. There are also the uncertainties associated with possible new uses of the Middlewich line. The project cost might perhaps be of the order of £50-£60 million (very much finger in the air guesswork!) together with whatever may be required for Basford Hall replacement. Realistically, no one is going to authorise a reopening until there is greater clarity surrounding that possible move. But also realistically, it is a great deal more likely that the necessary substantial budget will be found if the line itself is needed both for passenger use and for a relocated Basford Hall.

Therefore you are not in the position of a final push, but in the middle of a long, hard slog. As others with more experience than I have suggested, the best thing that you can do is to ally yourself – work – with other people who are already actively campaigning.

You can take courage from sources such as this:

http://trundleage.co.uk/2015/10/council-begins-consultation-on-middlewich-location/
Council begins consultation on Middlewich location
This entry was posted in News North West on October 16, 2015 by trundle

Cheshire East Council is to begin consultation on the location of a proposed railway station at Middlewich railway station.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The mere fact that 'funds were in place' means, precisely, that someone got their wallet out!

Listen, I shall say this only once. ..(Michelle in 'Allo 'Allo)..

There was no "wallet getting-out"....the monies were ALREADY there directly as a result of the grant bid application in which Burnley Council were the lead being deemed the most suitable to reinvigorate the area of East Lancashire. That bid was as much about the upgrading infrastructure required for the Weaver's Triangle in Burnley as it was about the reinstatement of the Todmorden Chord.