Can a train be formed of 3 DMUs?

[30mog]

We often see various types of DMU coupled. Or in some cases, different types coupled - a 150 & 156 for example. But do any types permit three or more separate units to be hooked up to form one train?

A nine car Pacer - OMG!!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

SWT quite often have 9-car (159+159+159) or 8-car (159+159+158) services. In addition, Northern often have 156+142+142 running on the Huddersfield-Manchester Victoria line (though in that case at least one of the units is locked out).

 

[ushawk]

Southern have ran 3 171s in multiple on the Oxted line before (1 4-car unit, 2 2-car units).

 

[Max]

I have travelled on a 158-150-153 formation on FGW before.

 

[RPM]

3x 2 car 165s are not unusual on Chiltern. 3x 2 car 172s also.

 

[WillPS]

I'm pretty sure that with the Sprinter BSI-type couplers (used by 142/3/4, 150/3/5/6/8/9 and 170s/172s) there is a maximum of 4 units which can couple. For some reason, a 170 with a centre car counts as 2 - so you can have 2 x 3-car 170 (but no more) or 1 x 3-car 170 + 1 x 2-car 170 + 158 (but nothing more).

There are exceptions as to what can couple with what. Only suitably modified 156 units can couple with 170s and 172s - which excludes any of the ones allocated to Northern Spirit and North Western Trains at privatisation (so the entire Northern fleet plus the 4 units cascaded to EMT).

Pacers aren't allowed to couple to Turbostars, but that's probably to do with the fact they've never had to before, so they've never been tested.

 

[455driver]

SWT run a 10 coach (2x159 and 2x158) each week day.
FGW run a 6 coach ecs set from Plymouth to Exeter (it varies but I have seen 2x150 and 2x153 or 3x150).

 

[RyanB]

We often see various types of DMU coupled. Or in some cases, different types coupled - a 150 & 156 for example. But do any types permit three or more separate units to be hooked up to form one train?

A nine car Pacer - OMG!!

I've seen 3 x 2-car 158s before, might have been an ECS movement though, don't know if that counts.

 

[RPM]

Max number of DMU vehicles that can run together (in Chiltern land anyway) is 12. Would only ever happen ECS anyway because of platform lengths.

 

[90019]

I've seen 3 x 2-car 158s before, might have been an ECS movement though, don't know if that counts.

I've seen ScotRail running three 158s in service before.

Three 156s is the norm on the West Highland in the summer.

 

[RPM]

IIRC you can't operate in DOO mode with more than 8 cars too.

 

[Eagle]

If the WCML is blocked by engineering works then VT often run 3x221 shuttles between London and Coventry/Nuneaton. At 15 coaches I believe this is the longest passenger train formation you can get, barring the sleepers and Eurostars.

There is even a "15 car stop" sign at Coventry

 

[Crossover]

I have been on a Northern 3 DMU lash up before, so it does happen

As someone said, there is apparently a "cab limit" with Pacers (and possibly some others too) - 8 cab limit on a Pacer formation rings somehow true.

As for Voyagers, from reading the VT Decade of Progress book, it seemed to suggest 4 x 4 car Voyager was a maximum permitted working (mentioned on a photo of such working ECS)

 

[Bedpan]

IIRC you can't operate in DOO mode with more than 8 cars too.

Is that just DMUs or electrics too?

 

[ash39]

I had an amazingly random experience about 15 years ago, in the days of Northern Spirit. Details are very sketchy as I was only very young, but I was coming back to Leeds from the north west with my mum and we had an 8 car 158 - two 3-car transpenninexpress liveried units and a 2-car in WYPTE red just to ruin the look, it looked superb and I even have a couple of photos that I've been meaning to scan in for years.

I doubt it now, but if anyone knows any reason why this turned up please shout up! It was a weekend, the train was fairly quiet and all the units were for public use (I walked through for novelty value!) - which pretty much rules out event specials and stock moves?

 

[RJ]

Chiltern's 5H00 morning Wembley - Marylebone run used to be formed of a 168, 172, 165 and another 172.

 

[MCR247]

The first CT from Nottingham to Lincoln used to be 153-153-158-170 with only the 153s for passenger use

 

[Class172]

There used to be a timetabled diagram from Worcester to Dorridge formed of a 170/5+150/1+153.

During one day also in 2011, there was engineering works and as a result all trains would be formed of six coaches, which lead to a few combinations including 150001+150002.

 

[30mog]

OP here. Yes, in other words.

Subject to one or two technicalities obscure to the general public?

 

[driver9000]

Maximum train length with a 14x unit in the formation is 8 cars. The maximum for a train formed of 15x units is 12 cars. A 153 counts as 2 vehicles.

Class 185 can load to 12 cars but restricted to ECS only, 9 in passenger service.

 

[jopsuk]

IIRC you can't operate in DOO mode with more than 8 cars too.

Surely this is a local rule? GA and FCC run 12 car DOO from Cambridge.

 

[rick_suffolk]

I'm pretty sure that with the Sprinter BSI-type couplers (used by 142/3/4, 150/3/5/6/8/9 and 170s/172s) there is a maximum of 4 units which can couple. For some reason, a 170 with a centre car counts as 2 - so you can have 2 x 3-car 170 (but no more) or 1 x 3-car 170 + 1 x 2-car 170 + 158 (but nothing more).

There are exceptions as to what can couple with what. Only suitably modified 156 units can couple with 170s and 172s - which excludes any of the ones allocated to Northern Spirit and North Western Trains at privatisation (so the entire Northern fleet plus the 4 units cascaded to EMT).

Pacers aren't allowed to couple to Turbostars, but that's probably to do with the fact they've never had to before, so they've never been tested.

i dont think the statement re 170s is correct as anglia railways regularly used 3 x 3 car 170s from liv st to norwich when they were new.

 

[PHILIPE]

There used to be a Saturday Summer train from Cardiff to Paignton and return worked by 4 x 153. About 14/15 years ago. Trains formed by 3 units are frequent all over the system as long as the Coupling Code is compatible. The restriction on the number of Pacer vehicles has already been mentioned.

 

[Wolvercoter]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wolvercotewanderer/8993658033

Whilst not the best pic, here you can see a First Great Western 143+153+150 combination.

 

[jimm]

In the late 1980s, in the first phase of switching TransPennine services from the loco-hauled trains that had prevailed since 1979 to dmus, there were a number of trains worked by 8-car 150/2 formations, with four sets coupled together. Not sure how long they lasted.

 

[whhistle]

There's a picture of a 12-car 156 unit on a bridge floating around somewhere.

 

[pemma]

Northern one day operated a 156+150+142 combination in passenger service on a Summer Blackpool service. Apparently, the 142 was only added on because of a fault in one of driving cabs and the quickest fix was to add on a spare 142.

 

[185]

I had an amazingly random experience about 15 years ago, in the days of Northern Spirit. Details are very sketchy as I was only very young, but I was coming back to Leeds from the north west with my mum and we had an 8 car 158 - two 3-car transpenninexpress liveried units and a 2-car in WYPTE red just to ruin the look, it looked superb and I even have a couple of photos that I've been meaning to scan in for years.

I doubt it now, but if anyone knows any reason why this turned up please shout up! It was a weekend, the train was fairly quiet and all the units were for public use (I walked through for novelty value!) - which pretty much rules out event specials and stock moves?

I worked 3 x 3car 158s for NS as a guard.

I did question it, but apparently the maximum permitted is 12 X TCAs (track circuit actuators, 1 per cab). So technically I think it's a maximum of six units in any formation; platforms permitting obviously.

Mine was only doing York-Leeds nonstop to Manchester Picc - then being split. Was after York races and a failed train.

 

[TDK]

Max number of DMU vehicles that can run together (in Chiltern land anyway) is 12. Would only ever happen ECS anyway because of platform lengths.

It is the number of cabs not units that is the governing factor on length of trains (DMU)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maximum train length with a 14x unit in the formation is 8 cars. The maximum for a train formed of 15x units is 12 cars. A 153 counts as 2 vehicles.

Class 185 can load to 12 cars but restricted to ECS only, 9 in passenger service.

As quoted above the reason for this with a 153 is that it has 2 cabs and one coach

 

[GM078]

In Ireland for a while we regularly had eight piece sets made up of 4 2-car sets on outer suburban services (2600, 2700 or 2800 class, the 2600 and 2800s could be combined). These sets wouldn't be 100 miles away from the BR sprinter series. Likewise after some mods our 8100 class EMUs could run in eight piece (4 2 car sets) formations.