Cancelled due to ‘a short notice change to the timetable’

[Krokodil]

Don't run away with the idea its just confined to traincrew, it isn't.

It's more noticeable though when shortages of traincrew happen, because the result is cancellations. Shortages of (for example) supermarket staff would usually just result in longer queues, or gaps in the shelves.

 

[Ianigsy]

Father's Day and the Euros.

Lea Green has had no eastbound service for two and a half hours due to Northern and TPE cancellations and TPE cutting out stops due to overcrowding with the Swifties heading home from Liverpool. Clearly another reason to recruit more female train crew!

 

[td97]

I started a thread on 24th March

I started one in 2021, nothing has changed since. I think that thread possibly references a 2018 one.

There are mass cancellations on many lines on Northern today. ASLEF overtime ban (until 27th July) plus Sunday being voluntary overtime for conductors on the west side of Northern.

Sunday cancellations are down to lack of guards not drivers. Northern blaming ASLEF is a lie and absorbing themselves of responsibility.
Most of the current Monday - Saturday cancellations are however absence of driver related.

That doesn’t mean that it’s a sensible contractual position in 2024 or that it’s in sync with passenger demand or business need. Probably something that will have to be addressed sooner rather than later.

A complete failure of the OLR operation so far (4+ years to date). Quite how the RMT agreement was achieved last year without any changes to Sunday working is an insult to passengers. Ironically, whilst in dispute with the RMT, Northern Sunday services were the best in years as midweek rest day work was barred, leaving Sunday as the only legitimate overtime opportunity, of which there were plentiful takers.

 

[74A]

I'm sure people said that nationalisation would solve the problem... No, sorting out the real problems will, no matter who runs it .

Indeed. Wages will get so low people will have to work their Sundays for the money. Like under BR.

 

[Confused52]

Sunday cancellations are down to lack of guards not drivers. Northern blaming ASLEF is a lie and absorbing themselves of responsibility.
Most of the current Monday - Saturday cancellations are however absence of driver related.

At my local station every cancellation on the day today has a reason TG (Driver) or YI ( essentially the other leg didn't run). The last minute disruption here is definitely ASLEF inspired.

 

[800001]

I started a thread on 24th March when 3 consecutive hourly trains were cancelled on the Hope Valley line between Sheffield and Manchester. Random cancellations have continued and users are giving up. The thread was closed because it was going round in ever decreasing industrial relations circles.

Today Northern have excelled themselves. By midday not one train has run. Potential users are disgusted.

Nothing has changed and this thread will go the same way as all other threads and go around in circles.

Until Northern is allowed by the Dft to offer a deal to the staff which is acceptable to them, to bring Sunday working into the working week, then nothing will change.

All today is, is the staff, doing what they are entitled to do, and not work there rest days.

 

[jayah]

Nothing has changed and this thread will go the same way as all other threads and go around in circles.

Until Northern is allowed by the Dft to offer a deal to the staff which is acceptable to them, to bring Sunday working into the working week, then nothing will change.

All today is, is the staff, doing what they are entitled to do, and not work there rest days.

Northern were in the private sector for years and could have offered such a deal. The trouble is the DfT aka taxpayer would have needed to pay for it.

It didn't and isn't going to happen, at least for a sum of money the staff find acceptable.

 

[whoosh]

Just to point out that Transport for Wales (because they weren't "Not allowed to" by the DfT) negotiated for Drivers to have Sundays brought into the working week. And the drivers voted to accept it as they saw it as a reasonable offer.

Drivers and their union are happy to negotiate over productivity and modernisation. When any politician or newspaper tells you otherwise they are lying to you.

 

[HullRailMan]

Perhaps the pertinent question at the money is how the (very likely) incoming Labour government will solve this issue given the very tight fiscal rules they have set themselves and their position that taking rail operations in-house won’t cost anything?

 

[Trainman40083]

Perhaps the pertinent question at the money is how the (very likely) incoming Labour government will solve this issue given the very tight fiscal rules they have set themselves and their position that taking rail operations in-house won’t cost anything?

Oh they will nationalise it all. But it won't solve a lot.

 

[800001]

Perhaps the pertinent question at the money is how the (very likely) incoming Labour government will solve this issue given the very tight fiscal rules they have set themselves and their position that taking rail operations in-house won’t cost anything?

They will do what has happened in every other negotiation, let the employer (TOCS) negotiate with the unions and come to an agreement.

 

[12LDA28C]

Oh they will nationalise it all. But it won't solve a lot.

No, they won't. Labour haven't suggested buying out the ROSCOs for a start, and nor can they afford to.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Perhaps the pertinent question at the money is how the (very likely) incoming Labour government will solve this issue given the very tight fiscal rules they have set themselves and their position that taking rail operations in-house won’t cost anything?

The Labour Party 2024 Manifesto includes the following commitment to deliver reliable train services. To achieve this they will if they form the next Government have to negotiate agreements to bring Sunday within the working week, where this is not already the case, and end the reliance on overtime and rest day working which is making some train services unreliable.

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Labour-Party-manifesto-2024.pdf

"We will put passengers at the heart of the service by reforming the railways and bringing them into public ownership. We will do this as contracts with existing operators expire or are broken through a failure to deliver, without costing taxpayers a penny in compensation. Great British Railways will deliver a unified system that focuses on reliable, affordable, high-quality, and efficient services; along with ensuring safety and accessibility."

 

[dk1]

Father's Day and the Euros.

As well as working to rule until the end of July.

 

[MotCO]

The problem is that under the outgoing Conservative government there has been no appetite for constructive discussions regarding changes to contracts.

There seems to have been no appetite to change anything - and that is why the Tories are in this mess, but that's for another thread.

 

[muz379]

It's more noticeable though when shortages of traincrew happen, because the result is cancellations. Shortages of (for example) supermarket staff would usually just result in longer queues, or gaps in the shelves.

I think the poster you were replying to was indicating that shortages among other grades in the industry also have a very noticable impact .

Shortages in engineering lead to units being stopped for longer waiting repair or exams which leads to short forming which is also a real prevalent issue at some operators .

Shortages in planning and control also leads to less resilience , less create diagramming in response to engineering works and a much less creativity in service recovery following incidents . Again both things we see people on these forums posting about quite a bit .

 

[DanNCL]

All I’ll say about the overtime ban is that it should end on 5th July so that negotiations with the likely incoming Labour government can go ahead in good faith without more needless havoc. Continuing it for a few weeks longer helps nobody, including ASLEF’s members. Should be a clean slate with all industrial action suspended at the start of negotiations with the new government, only if those negotiations with the new government collapse should there then be industrial action after the election. Labour need to be given a chance to sort this mess out before ASLEF resort to industrial action.

 

[Tramfan]

Looking at Real Time Trains, the services out of Blackpool North have been pretty terrible today as well, 6 consecutive Manchester departures (12:50, 13:51, 14:51, 15:51, 16:51 and 17:51) cancelled, to add to the earlier 09:00 and 11:00 services too.

When I looked at the Northern JourneyCheck page earlier, the Blackpool to Manchester services were claiming to be operating a "good service"

 

[muz379]

That doesn’t mean that it’s a sensible contractual position in 2024 or that it’s in sync with passenger demand or business need. Probably something that will have to be addressed sooner rather than later.

I'm really not convinced about the "sooner rather than later" sentiment , I mean its been an issue that has reared its head every now and then on bank holiday weekends , sundays around christmas and new year for decades . Granted it seems almost every Sunday at the minute there are not suitable numbers of volunteers but even then that has been the case for a few years at least now .

Truth be told , without the treasury authorising the increased spending to strike a deal nothing will change . Better industrial relations might encourage a few more volunteers , but to actually fix it once and for all needs an agreement .

 

[londonmidland]

Northern have posted this very last minute message for their services across the North West this evening;

DO NOT TRAVEL - Customers travelling in the North West please be aware there is a do not not travel warning in place this evening due to significant disruption and cancellation, meaning later services will not be able to run.

Please be advised that last services will now be earlier and train services will not be replaced by buses. Please check your service, along with last services below.

Source: Twitter/X

 

[Dr Hoo]

Does anybody recall why the original Strategic Rail Authority ‘no growth’ franchise that created Northern through re-mapping in 2004 didn’t include an obligation to harmonise ‘conditions’ across the company (at least for new starters) or include Sundays in the working week in all areas?

Is there a clue as to what might be achieved under another Labour administration?

 

[trainophile]

Northern have posted this very last minute message for their services across the North West this evening;



Source: Twitter/X

Over 60 already shown as cancelled for tomorrow on Northern Journey Check. Short notice changes to the timetable . All day too, not just first thing.

 

[trainophile]

Sorry, just put on the other thread, over 60 Northern services already cancelled for tomorrow on their Journey Check. I think they have given up.

 

[Horizon22]

It’s just a classic “Sunday is not in the working week, morale is low, it’s a warm summer day and the football is on”. Staff can chuck in their Sundays and therefore you have more planned services than crew to run them.

That’s really there is to it. Such threads will continue ad infinitum until this is resolved.

The only argument is whether the pain can be “shared” across routes but it is not always that easy.

 

[dk1]

Sorry, just put on the other thread, over 60 Northern services already cancelled for tomorrow on their Journey Check. I think they have given up.

As stated that is expected for the next six weeks or so.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The only argument is whether the pain can be “shared” across routes but it is not always that easy.

all services via Hindley have been rail replacements today so things are better than they otherwise would be for the remaining trains.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Perhaps Northern should cancel Sunday trains permanently? That way, the travelling public will know to plan alternatives.

And Network Rail get a free day every week to do maintenance!

 

[John R]

No, they won't. Labour haven't suggested buying out the ROSCOs for a start, and nor can they afford to.

They couldn’t buy out existing contracts, no, nor buy the companies outright. But if they wanted to they could fund new stock up front and cut out the Rosco, thus starting the process. I think it’s very unlikely though.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Perhaps Northern should cancel Sunday trains permanently? That way, the travelling public will know to plan alternatives.

And Network Rail get a free day every week to do maintenance!

To me they already have, unless I need to go somewhere "I can't, it's a Sunday".

 

[driver9000]

Does anybody recall why the original Strategic Rail Authority ‘no growth’ franchise that created Northern through re-mapping in 2004 didn’t include an obligation to harmonise ‘conditions’ across the company (at least for new starters) or include Sundays in the working week in all areas?

Is there a clue as to what might be achieved under another Labour administration?

Harmonisation was attempted by the original Serco-NedRail incarnation of Northern but after long drawn out talks was abandoned in 2008 without agreement as the proposed terms were unacceptable to the unions. What eventually happened was Productivity talks for the former FNW area which brought about several changes to working conditions but the company at the time didn't table bringing Sunday into the working week.