Cancelled stops on the 8.36 Guildford to Waterloo. Anyone know why?

[infobleep]

Does anyone know why the 8.36 had the Wimbledon, Earlsfield, Clapham Junction and Vauxhall stops cancelled this morning. I assume the train then ran on the fast lines.

It arrived into Surbiton on time for once but any passengers wanting those stations would have had to wait another 16 minutes for the 9.27. In the mean time two other non stop trains to Waterloo will have passed through. These things are unavailable from time to time and I know the train companies eat fined for missing out stops. Doesn't make it any less annoying for people. The train will no doubt arrive in extra early to Waterloo.

The 8.36 was a 4 car train today, no doubt due to train faults. It was however still a 450, as I think it is from memory.

 

[cjohnson]

Presumably ran fast because of the short formation - no point stopping it at Wimbledon onwards if no one can get on, risking delay to that service and ones behind it. RTT shows it arrived pretty much on time.

 

[ash39]

What about anyone wanting to get off ??

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Presumably ran fast because of the short formation - no point stopping it at Wimbledon onwards if no one can get on, risking delay to that service and ones behind it. RTT shows it arrived pretty much on time.

Yes I think that is the reason, on this morning's Reading - Waterloo services short formed trains were not stopping at Twickenham and Richmond.

 

[WeGoAgain]

What about anyone wanting to get off ??

Seemingly, (from the OP) people at Surbiton would have had the necessary information that the Train was not stopping at certain stations.

There also should have been on board announcements informing passengers that the Train would not be stopping at certain stations.

Thus, people could have got off the Train before 'missing' their stop.

 

[bb21]

What about anyone wanting to get off ??

Should have been on-train announcements for people requiring intermediate stops to disembark at Surbiton and change. I have encountered this a few times on SWT and each time the guard made an announcement.

 

[hassaanhc]

Yes I think that is the reason, on this morning's Reading - Waterloo services short formed trains were not stopping at Twickenham and Richmond.

Removing some stops from short morning services happens often, this is to avoid excessive dwell time when services are already wedged. Ex Dorking can often be Fast from Motspur Park to Waterloo, ex Hounslow can be Fast from Barnes. Recently they've started doing it with some evening country-bound services too, Reading ones might be Fast to Richmond, Hounslow ones Fast to Queenstown Road
(I think they should cancel Putney on the wedged 4 car 1722 as they're the reason for it being wedged :P)

And yes it is advertised as cancelled at stations, and should be on the train as well.

 

[323235]

Should have been on-train announcements for people requiring intermediate stops to disembark at Surbiton and change. I have encountered this a few times on SWT and each time the guard made an announcement.

Waits for the earphone brigade who haven't heard the announcements to notice

 

[infobleep]

The thing is, the train wasn't wedge when it got to Surbiton.

Beyond that I can't be certain. Perhaps the guard should say due to short formation the train will not be stopping at insert stations.

Interestingly the 18.39 from Waterloo never missed out Clapham Junction or Woking. The 18.27 service to Exeter from Clapham Junction always stops there despite delaying the trains behind it and people struggling to board it.

Even if they had cancel some stations this morning, surely Clapham Junction is important enough to have been kept in. It's not rural station in the middle of no where.

The cancellation may have been announced I'm advance but I only remember hearing about it from around Effingham Junction.

I wonder how busy the 9.27 was as a result. Would passengers be allowed to double back from Waterloo given the cancellation or would they have to wait the additional 16 minutes.

Surprising the train only arrived into Waterloo a minute early. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W12845/2014/07/30/advanced

The following 9.27 was three minutes late by the time it reached Vauxhall. I doubt that was related as it left Surbiton on time.

 

[Domh245]

Might it be something to do with the fact that it was being operated by a 450 (can't remember which one though)

I was at wimbledon on the tube waiting for it to leave when I heard the "stand well back from P5" announcement, and I thought that it would probably be a train heading into the depot, but then a 4 car 450 came warbling through, which suprised me a bit. I doubt that they would want to be stopping a 450 on what should be a 455 service, seeing as the doors take forever to open and close, it would start loosing time on that frequent stopping section, where passengers could easily board a different train heading towards waterloo.

 

[infobleep]

Might it be something to do with the fact that it was being operated by a 450 (can't remember which one though)

I was at wimbledon on the tube waiting for it to leave when I heard the "stand well back from P5" announcement, and I thought that it would probably be a train heading into the depot, but then a 4 car 450 came warbling through, which suprised me a bit. I doubt that they would want to be stopping a 450 on what should be a 455 service, seeing as the doors take forever to open and close, it would start loosing time on that frequent stopping section, where passengers could easily board a different train heading towards waterloo.

Not everyone wants to go to Waterloo. There are many connections at Clapham Junction and one could easily miss one by being delayed at Surbiton for 16 minutes.

The 8 car 450 doesn't skip Clapham Junction or the other three stations and as I said the Exeter service from Clapham at 18 27 never misses Clapham Junction and 99% of the time it delays trains behind it.

 

[infobleep]

Interestingly the 8.07 is just 4 coaches today. That doesn't stop at stations beyond Surbiton except Waterloo. However it is also busier by the time it reaches Surbiton. I notice however that they haven't cancelled Surbiton as a stop despite this. Perhaps they should as it might delay trains behind if more people trying to board than there is space.

 

[455driver]

Interestingly the 8.07 is just 4 coaches today. That doesn't stop at stations beyond Surbiton except Waterloo. However it is also busier by the time it reaches Surbiton. I notice however that they haven't cancelled Surbiton as a stop despite this. Perhaps they should as it might delay trains behind if more people trying to board than there is space.

It has to stop at Surbiton so people can change onto following services for the cancelled intermediate stops! :roll:

There are well thought out plans for scenarios like this and it isnt just thought up depending what sort of mood the controller is in.
But dont let the facts get in the way of a good moan though will ya!

 

[infobleep]

Well there are services 30 minutes later from the other stations. Bear in mind passengers wanting to change services at Clapham Junction yesterday couldn't because that stop was cancelled. Admitted they didn't need to wait 30 minutes but they did have to wait 16 minutes. Same applies for passengers changing at Wimbledon.

I just disagree with cancelling stops at stations where people need to change trains.

 

[455driver]

I just disagree with cancelling stops at stations where people need to change trains.

But you would agree with a crush loaded 4 coach train calling at all the stations (even though nobody would be able to board at most of the stations) just so that a few people could try to board and cause a very long dwell time which would have a knock on effect to all the trains behind it?

Missing the stops out (even the Claham jn one) is the least worst option available in that situation.
If the train is going to go fast line into Waterloo then it cant realistically call at Clapham jn because of the very slow approach but if it is staying slow line then it could call at Clapham jn but until the train is ready to leave Surbiton they wont know for certain which line it is going to be put on so the only option is to cancel the Clapham jn stop. It isnt nice but it is the sensible option from an operational point of view.

 

[hassaanhc]

(even the Claham jn one)

Bit hard to stop somewhere that doesn't exist

But yes you're right, it does seem to be to reduce dwell time. I've been on a couple of booked 4 cars on the Hounslow line in the peak, which towards London are wedged from Brentford and stopping at Putney and Wandsworth Town was just wasting time. Leaving London there isn't enough room to squish on at Vauxhall let alone until it begins to empty out at Putney. So I can see why they miss out stops.
Thing is many people serial moaners (usually with a coincidence of being an annual ticket holder :P) see it as an excuse and being "incompetent" for not putting out a longer train and as a way to deliberately inconvenience people

 

[infobleep]

I don't see as incompetent though. I just disagree with the position they took, especially compared to other services they run. After all have you seen how rammed the 18.27 from Clapham Junction to Exeter is. It 99‰ of the time delays the 18.23 from Waterloo which doesn't stop at Clapham Junction. It also delays the 18.33 from Clapham Junction to Alton. I've yet to see that one cancelled at Clapham Junction. Perhaps they expected the 8.36 to be far more rammed than the 18.27.

The 18.46 to Poole is busy but you can at least board it. People at Surbiton are able to board the 9.11 which is non stop to Waterloo. On that morning it was run about 7 minutes late. Normally it leaves at the same time as the stopping service which was run fast. I don't know if that made a difference at all.

I wasn't concerned with those board in the case of the 8.36 but those leaving the train but I fully except it hard to stop people boarding a train. Wonder if they could make it set down only as they do for some late night services.

 

[High Dyke]

Does anyone know why the 8.36 had the Wimbledon, Earlsfield, Clapham Junction and Vauxhall stops cancelled this morning. I assume the train then ran on the fast lines.

It arrived into Surbiton on time for once but any passengers wanting those stations would have had to wait another 16 minutes for the 9.27. In the mean time two other non stop trains to Waterloo will have passed through. These things are unavailable from time to time and I know the train companies eat fined for missing out stops. Doesn't make it any less annoying for people. The train will no doubt arrive in extra early to Waterloo.

The 8.36 was a 4 car train today, no doubt due to train faults. It was however still a 450, as I think it is from memory.

Seemingly due to stock shortages...no other information available that i am aware of. For the record it arrived at Waterloo 2 mins early. This service wasn't the only one to have Fail To Stop (FTS) at stations en-route.

 

[bb21]

Towards Waterloo and away from Waterloo are completely different situations though.

Towards Waterloo in the morning, accumulated delays would most likely cause knock-on effects not just on nearby services, but also the return workings due to short turnaround times at the London end.

Away from Waterloo there may well be recovery time en route, or at the other end of the route.

 

[Deepgreen]

The 1724 Waterloo to Dorking yesterday was a single 455 and omitted the Vauxhall stop (with copious announcements from the guard) presumably to avoid further over-crowding.

 

[infobleep]

I understand it's different towards Waterloo. Would set down only work? It's only the people trying to get to stations like Clapham Junction and Wimbledon where they could change that I took issue with. People at Wimbledon and Clapham Junction trying to get to Waterloo have other options. They do from Surbiton but less trains from Surbiton stop at Clapham Junction than from Wimbledon I believe.

As I didn't travel yesterday on the 8.07 I'll never know how full that was at Surbiton. However it left on time so it can't have been a problem with boarding, being only 4 coaches instead of 8. That train doesn't stop at Any stations between Surbiton and Waterloo.

Cancelled stops cost train companies money so I know they don't do it for the sheer hell of it.

There are 8 trains from Surbiton to Clapham Junction between 9 and 10 but 5 of them are in the last half hour. It's normally 9.01, 9.11, 9.27, 9.31, 9.38, 9.41, 9.46 and 9.57. For operational reasons they are not evenly spread out, which is why passengers had the additional 16 minute gap. Had it been the 9.41 they could have just caught the 9.46 instead, although that wouldn't help passengers going to Wimbledon, as they'd have to catch the 9.57.

 

[455driver]

I don't see as incompetent though. I just disagree with the position they took, especially compared to other services they run. After all have you seen how rammed the 18.27 from Clapham Junction to Exeter is. It 99‰ of the time delays the 18.23 from Waterloo which doesn't stop at Clapham Junction. It also delays the 18.33 from Clapham Junction to Alton. I've yet to see that one cancelled at Clapham Junction. Perhaps they expected the 8.36 to be far more rammed than the 18.27.

The 18.46 to Poole is busy but you can at least board it. People at Surbiton are able to board the 9.11 which is non stop to Waterloo. On that morning it was run about 7 minutes late. Normally it leaves at the same time as the stopping service which was run fast. I don't know if that made a difference at all.

I wasn't concerned with those board in the case of the 8.36 but those leaving the train but I fully except it hard to stop people boarding a train. Wonder if they could make it set down only as they do for some late night services.

In the evening it doesnt matter what train is the first to call at Clapham jn it will always be busy and always pick up a delay, if it isnt the 1820 to Exeter then it would be the 1823 to Alton, either way round it would get delayed, the Exeter service offers the best onwards connections further down the line so it is a good choice of train to stop there.

All this talk of evening trains is nothing more than a distraction though, evening trains will have people heading to many different destinations but in a morning most people will be heading into London (normally Waterloo but if not there are plenty of onward connections available from there) and surely it is better to stick with the one problem instead of muddying the discussion with other, non relevant, items!

 

[bb21]

"Set-down" only will not help as the train still travelled on the slow lines. Stopping and restarting slows down the progress of the train by quite a lot and if the doors are opened while the train stopped on Platform 5 at Wimbledon or Platform 10 at Clapham Junction, you can almost guarantee that people will try and board regardless of what the CIS says, because that's what Londoners do. It's a force of habit.

This is one of those situations that can go into the pile of "sh*t happens in life".

 

[infobleep]

In the evening it doesnt matter what train is the first to call at Clapham jn it will always be busy and always pick up a delay, if it isnt the 1820 to Exeter then it would be the 1823 to Alton, either way round it would get delayed, the Exeter service offers the best onwards connections further down the line so it is a good choice of train to stop there.

All this talk of evening trains is nothing more than a distraction though, evening trains will have people heading to many different destinations but in a morning most people will be heading into London (normally Waterloo but if not there are plenty of onward connections available from there) and surely it is better to stick with the one problem instead of muddying the discussion with other, non relevant, items!

There are far more onward connections at Clapham Junction than Waterloo.

Unless I'm wrong, tickets to places are not valid via Waterloo unless it says via London or any permitted on the ticket or you understand the routing guide. Whether going via Waterloo would be quicker than waiting another 16 minutes I don't know.

Of course if train from Clapham Junction is only hourly, such as the one to Milton Keynes, it doesn't matter as you'd miss it whatever you did, unless the train stops at Clapham Junction.

 

[randompixel]

They've been doing this a lot more this week. I've caught the good and bad side of it (Ashford straight through to CJ non stop) and the bad (not stopping at Vauxhall on the way home. Its a way busier station than Clapham Junction.).

On Friday the 07:21 was only 4 coaches and didn't stop at Ashford, then the 07:41 W&ER started at CJ with 5 coaches. A potential 18 cars that didn't stop in peak time.

 

[HBM]

Why does SWT have a Rolling Stock shortage?

Given a small number of 456s and 458s are away being refurbished / reformed aren't there numerous other 456s sitting around doing very little.

Apart from the use of a handful of the ex Southern 456s between Guildford and Ascot, why aren't the remainder being used to ease the apparent stock shortage?

 

[swt_passenger]

Why does SWT have a Rolling Stock shortage?

Given a small number of 456s and 458s are away being refurbished / reformed aren't there numerous other 456s sitting around doing very little.

Apart from the use of a handful of the ex Southern 456s between Guildford and Ascot, why aren't the remainder being used to ease the apparent stock shortage?

Half the 456s have never been with SWT, they went to Wolverton directly, so SWT only have 12. Those they do have cannot multiple with 455s yet. There are also 455s on PRM (DDA) mods and painting, and others on prototype traction conversion.

Converted 458s arriving don't add to the numbers of units, because once they arrive 458/0s disappear to Doncaster.

But there's other threads in the traction section for 458/5 and 456 etc, this is just an infobleep trivia thread...

 

[infobleep]

I am surprised Vauxhall is busier than Clapham Junction, given Clapham Junction has 17 platforms but you are probably referring to the numbers purely on South West Trains. One day it might be different if they are ever able to stop fast trains at Clapham Junction.

South West Trains run a lot of busy services so stock shortages don't always help.

What was it like on the following services from Vauxhall after the cancelled one.

Also was the non stop Ashford to Clapham Junction very busy upon leaving Ashford?

 

[randompixel]

I am surprised Vauxhall is busier than Clapham Junction, given Clapham Junction has 17 platforms but you are probably referring to the numbers purely on South West Trains. One day it might be different if they are ever able to stop fast trains at Clapham Junction.

South West Trains run a lot of busy services so stock shortages don't always help.

What was it like on the following services from Vauxhall after the cancelled one.

Also was the non stop Ashford to Clapham Junction very busy upon leaving Ashford?

I was purely talking about my side of Clapham Junction Platforms 5 & 6. Vauxhall seemed to be about 12-15 people getting on at each door, more than the 5-ish at CJ ever are.

Leaving Ashford was pleasant, but certainly not crushed. Standing room only, but could probably have stopped at Feltham and Whitton too comfortably.

 

[yorkie]

I am surprised Vauxhall is busier than Clapham Junction

It's not, but I'm sure the previous person meant busier for that train (or per train generally), which would be true.

given Clapham Junction has 17 platforms

That's irrelevant. The number of platforms is due to the number of tracks, which is an infrastructure matter.

South West Trains run a lot of busy services so stock shortages don't always help.

Understatement of the year.