Clapham Junction & Surbiton chaos

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SWT_USER

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A person hit by a train at Surbiton. Much as I'm usually quick to criticise SWT there's nothing they can really do here. They've been quick to get running whatever trains they can making use of the limited capacity in to Waterloo by turning trains at Surbiton, Woking or Basingstoke.
 

VTPreston_Tez

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True, but I would expect SWT to have a backup line or divert to other stations (bit far). Think we've got a future idea here provided it's viable...
 

MidnightFlyer

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True, but I would expect SWT to have a backup line or divert to other stations (bit far). Think we've got a future idea here provided it's viable...
Not without screwing up a lot of other trains and lines around SW London, looking at it in Baker I don't actually think any route would be viable without a lot of mass reversals and trains literally one signal apart.
 

SWT_USER

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True, but I would expect SWT to have a backup line or divert to other stations (bit far). Think we've got a future idea here provided it's viable...
If you want to demolish half of SW London you can make a back up line in to Waterloo... As it is there are other ways in to/ out of London for people who don't want to wait it out either from Paddington or Victoria and changing where nescasery...
 

VTPreston_Tez

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Not without screwing up a lot of other trains and lines around SW London, looking at it in Baker I don't actually think any route would be viable without a lot of mass reversals and trains literally one signal apart.
That's one of the major problems even I managed to come up with. Hopefully it will all be over soon and if needed, SWT can get Stagecoach buses as they are both SCoach operated so it should work.
 

ushawk

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Some trains are being diverted via Chertsey, so they arent all that bad.

All that is being done, is being done. People being struck by trains will always usually take a while to deal with and will cause disruption.
 

bailey65

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I hate hearing about people getting hit by trains it is tragic for all involved if i was coming back from waterloo to woking or beyond i would go to reading and down to basingstoke or take the weybridge via virginia water service as i would imagine some mainline services would be turned somewhere around weybridge.
There is very little swt trains controllers can do their thoughts obviously will be with those involved in the incident itself and also with the delayed commuters hopefully they will be understanding in the circumstances.
 

infobleep

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Very sad for all concerned with the fatality. From a travel point of view it was interesting. I was intending to pick up the 17.30 Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour but nothing shown on screen. I didn't know how bas things were in terms of likely delays or cancellations as I'd come up via the subway. Eventually I got in a Portsmouth Harbour service via Basingstoke which was running about 15-20 minutes late.

My intention was to change at Woking as suggested my the guard. Clearly lots of other people had the same idea. He did to this credit tell us me might be delayed at Woking for 25 minutes due to no train having left Waterloo.

When I arrives at Woking it was jam packed full of people on platforms 4 and 5. 4 cleared when an Alton train came in but platform 5 just got busier and busier. I arrived around 17:15-20 At one point I saw 4 trains listed to Basingstoke, in addition to those going further and none to Guildford. Every train seemed to be going past Brookwood even if they were not stopping there.

The automated announcement could be heard clearly but not the staff ones. A megaphone might have been better.

When they announced a Basingstoke train was shifting to platform 4, I saw no one more because hardly anyone wanted to go to Basingstoke or they had already caught the other 3 trains terminating there or the ones going through also stopping there.

At one point an automated announcement said there were problems in the Petersfield area disrupting trains. Clearly someone had hit the wrong button. Some people laughed when they heard it.

Eventually two trains to Guildford were announced. Of course no one knew how busy they might be. Even the staff didn't have that information. They were due in a minute a part on the same platform. As it turned out the front of the train was fairly empty but I wasn't at that part of the platform. So on I got around 19.00. I was effectively pushed on from the left side due to the crowd numbers. Trains are handy to lean on in such circumstances. It was certainly not something the train companies would wish to happen to often for health and safety reasons. They has announced a fast train was approaching before hand. No such thing but I'm sure it was to try and get people to stand behind the yellow line. Of course the staff announcements couldn't be heard so well.

Soon we departed leaving some behind on the platform and all of us squashed in the train. After a few minutes I heard the guard apologise for the 20 minute delay to the service and short formation of the train. I imagine the people at the north side of Woking platform and the far south had a shock when the train went straight past them and/or stopped short, as it was only 8 carriages. The late running was due to train crew being late. Of course what guard possibly didn't know was there had been a gap in the service of at least 40 minutes.

I didn't want to wait for the next service due behind as it was a stopping service to Haslemere and I didn't know how busy it would be. If i knew it would be not busy then I would have waited.

After the stopping service I couldn't be be sure what was running through Guildford if anything.

It transpires that a few services to Waterloo were terminating at Guildford. Of course this meant a gap of about 14 miles where trains were not running between Woking and Guildford. This was clearly on the information screens at Woking but such screens don't exist in the Waterloo subway. They have installed new interactive advertising screens so perhaps the next step will be to provide more information down there, as coming off the tube you don't know until you reach the subway of any problems. It's not TFLs job to announce mainline delays. There obviously wasn't enough staff or trains to run a shuttle service between Guildford and Woking using platform 6. If there were, that would have been useful to clear the passengers from the platform.

Anyway I just posted that to give my train travel experience. I'm aware the original circumstances coursing this are far more tragic and terrible than my delay home.
 

swt_passenger

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I found this, what's going on and 60 minute delays all over the show?
Discuss, could SWT take better action? What are they doing, and what would YOU do to sort out the problem?
You haven't really got a clue have you.

A fatality at Surbiton will always causes massive disruption. Just like at places like East Croydon, Stratford, Watford Jn, or Slough. You're stopping a four track mainline railway running at high capacity normally, where else could the services go?
 

infobleep

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A stopping service on the new line to Guildford would have been quick tonight but I doubt any passengers or even staff at Waterloo knew that would be the case. Beside the slow trains have no loos and I needed to use one.
 

30909

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Always feel sorry for the victim and the train crew. Surbiton though seems to attract suicides so perhaps needs increased vigilance by BTP and PCSOs, could it be because there are 5 tracks, 4 platform faces and one on the up fast where passing speeds are 70 plus?
 

infobleep

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SWT could upgrade their platform announcement systems so people have hear them better when staff are making announcements but in terms of trains, they are running pretty much to capacity already. Was surprised how empty some of the trains through Woking were. Was expecting them to all be packed solid full of people from London, given less trains were running or may be it was only the Guildford passing trains running less frequent.
 

tempests1

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http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ldbboard/dep/CLJ
I found this, what's going on and 60 minute delays all over the show?
Discuss, could SWT take better action? What are they doing, and what would YOU do to sort out the problem?
I don't think they could of handled things any better. I have spent time in the Wessex Intergrated Control Centre, & am friends with one of the SWT Route Controller's, they are very professional, knowledgable and good at their roles both on the NWR/SWT side. What you have got to consider with the Wessex area has only a handful of diversionary routes for example you could say Pompey to London service divert via the New Line/Epsom but not all crew sign this way, and obviously one terminal, compared to say Kent with the different London terminus and alterntive routes. Also with fatalities no individual one is the same as in the time of day, location, & other elements so how much planning can be done on this basis? they obviously have standard procedures during such occasions but you have got to expect disruption of this level.
 

tsr

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Always feel sorry for the victim and the train crew.
I agree.

Surbiton though seems to attract suicides so perhaps needs increased vigilance by BTP and PCSOs, could it be because there are 5 tracks, 4 platform faces and one on the up fast where passing speeds are 70 plus?
I don't really think speed always makes a difference. At some stations, platforms that are generally only used for fast services are fenced and gated (e.g. Purley, although a friend of mine once had an exceptionally good reason to vault the fence and found that too easy), but sadly people can be killed or seriously injured by a train at slow speeds (think about LU one-unders and you'll see what I mean).

I know that increased vigilance, especially by station staff, can work. I agree with that, of course! Unfortunately, there are simply too few BTP and local police officers, and therefore they can't watch out for suspected suicides at every station.
 

The Colonel

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I found this, what's going on and 60 minute delays all over the show?
Discuss, could SWT take better action? What are they doing, and what would YOU do to sort out the problem?
As Valerie Singleton used to say on Blue Peter "Ask an adult to help you".

I'd suggest you keep taking the medication and don't leave home without your care assistant.

Unfortunately this has happened before at Surbiton and will not doubt do so again, as it does at Wimbledon, for fairly apparent reasons. I HEARD the incident from inside the Booking Office and it was bad enough seeing the aftermath on the cctv. Most passengers were fairly understanding. Sadly a security guard on the station received a broken leg during the incident and had to be taken away to hospital.

When the time came some passengers were advised not to stand near the station entrance, but did not act on the station staff's suggestion. When the undertakers went past with the body bag on a stretcher they promptly burst into tears - can't say you weren't warned.

Surbiton isn't exactly in a transport desert, so alternative methods were available to most people - there are plenty of busses to Kingston to connect with trains to London. Westwards transport was more of a problem, but there is a taxi rank at the station if you really need to get somewhere fast. Most services were running in about 2 hours after the incident.

Various people including the railway Chaplain visited the station yesterday morning I believe to check on the welfare of the staff.

I trust this clarifies the situation for you Tez.
 

Marvin

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People being struck by trains will always usually take a while to deal with and will cause disruption.
I don't get why if there's a suicide on a motorway they'll just clear it off to the side and get the traffic flowing again, but if it happens on the railway it takes forever to get them moving again.
 

ChiefPlanner

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As Valerie Singleton used to say on Blue Peter "Ask an adult to help you".

I'd suggest you keep taking the medication and don't leave home without your care assistant.

Unfortunately this has happened before at Surbiton and will not doubt do so again, as it does at Wimbledon, for fairly apparent reasons. I HEARD the incident from inside the Booking Office and it was bad enough seeing the aftermath on the cctv. Most passengers were fairly understanding. Sadly a security guard on the station received a broken leg during the incident and had to be taken away to hospital.

When the time came some passengers were advised not to stand near the station entrance, but did not act on the station staff's suggestion. When the undertakers went past with the body bag on a stretcher they promptly burst into tears - can't say you weren't warned.

Surbiton isn't exactly in a transport desert, so alternative methods were available to most people - there are plenty of busses to Kingston to connect with trains to London. Westwards transport was more of a problem, but there is a taxi rank at the station if you really need to get somewhere fast. Most services were running in about 2 hours after the incident.

Various people including the railway Chaplain visited the station yesterday morning I believe to check on the welfare of the staff.

I trust this clarifies the situation for you Tez.
Good answer - there are those who do , and those who comment on others doing things. You dont get much worse than a 4 line block in the afternoon on a major route into London with no major diversion options - that is 2 in the last week or so.

This is not a virtual reality game but a very major incident , involving large numbers of variables like trains and people.
 

ushawk

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I don't get why if there's a suicide on a motorway they'll just clear it off to the side and get the traffic flowing again, but if it happens on the railway it takes forever to get them moving again.
Theres a difference between someone jumping off a bridge than someone jumping in front of a train being driven by someone and in front of a platform full of people on a fully electrified rail network which has a very intensive service.

How do you define "forever" ? Trains were back operating through the area 2 hours later, this would probably be the same if someone jumped from a bridge.
 

455driver

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I don't get why if there's a suicide on a motorway they'll just clear it off to the side and get the traffic flowing again, but if it happens on the railway it takes forever to get them moving again.
Because usually when a person gets hit on a motorway its just a question of picking up 1 very big bit (the body) on a railway its usually a question of picking up lots of little bits and funnily enough they like to pick up as much as they possibly can because they dont want the passengers finding any bits they missed.

Anyone want any more "details" or is that enough?

Oh vtpreston, bearing in mind your exhaustive knowledge of the railways and the Surbiton area in particular can you please explain how you fit the traffic from 4 mainlines (I wont count the down passenger loop) into 2, 1 of which has a 15mph limit and is approach controlled (the aforementioned down loop) because the down slow, down fast and up fast were closed for cleaning leaving you with the up slow and down passenger loop as the only available lines.
Trains cannot be turned back at Weybridge due to lack of cross over/ signals, the route through Chertsey and down the Reading lines suffer from long signal sections/ working almost to capacity and lack of crew knowledge.

Oh and the up fast is 80mph through Surbiton hence the long time for the clean up.
 

DarloRich

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Because usually when a person gets hit on a motorway its just a question of picking up 1 very big bit (the body) on a railway its usually a question of picking up lots of little bits and funnily enough they like to pick up as much as they possibly can because they dont want the passengers finding any bits they missed.

Anyone want any more "details" or is that enough?.
No i think that ought to do for them. No need to look any closer.

(Nor should we leave any "bits" behind. It is a person who will have had a family and they deserve dignity in death)
 
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