Class 142 MPTE modified trainsets

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Can anybody tell me what happened to the Class 142 units (142041-049 and 142051-058) that were converted for the Merseyside Passenger Transport Executive?

The last time I remember seeing one for sure it was stabled in the sidings just west of New mills Central.

Were they all in the yellow and white MerseyTravel livery when they were first converted and what livery did they get afterwards?
 
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NoMorePacers

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Can anybody tell me what happened to the Class 142 units (142041-049 and 142051-058) that were converted for the Merseyside Passenger Transport Executive?

The last time I remember seeing one for sure it was stabled in the sidings just west of New mills Central.

Were they all in the yellow and white MerseyTravel livery when they were first converted and what livery did they get afterwards?
They got repainted into the bog standard Serco-Abellio Northern Rail livery. They're found all over the North West and Yorkshire.
 

JonathanH

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So nobody really knows where they all are?
They never stayed in the MPTE area?

Although Merseytravel contributed to the 'upgrade' of these units, it also contributed to Northern's leasing of 158s in Yorkshire in the mid-2000s which allowed more 156s to run on Merseyside. Of course, more recently, 319s have been used on the local Northern services on Merseyside. All this has meant that the Merseyside 142s have been displaced and used elsewhere.
 

61653 HTAFC

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So nobody really knows where they all are?
They never stayed in the MPTE area?
Even in the mid-1990s they'd often appear on the Manchester Victoria to Wakefield Westgate services (which then served as the stopper on the main line West of Huddersfield). The 0938 (from HUD) service was one more often than not, which was a pain as it was the first Eastbound service that DayRovers were valid on.

One of them (142052) at least has been stood down (or was) but may return if needed.
 
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Were they the only Class 142s changed in such a way as to be recognizable because of the changes made?
 

61653 HTAFC

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Were they the only Class 142s changed in such a way as to be recognizable because of the changes made?
They were the only ones fitted with dot-matrix destination displays (with accompanying internal screens) and the only ones fitted with those horrible seats. Something in the back of my mind is telling me that one or two units only had the seats replaced and didn't get the digital destination boards, but I'm unable to be sure if I'm mistaken in that!
 

Leeds1970

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in reply to electrosoldier if we are going with the whole unit inside and out personally I would say yes - full width yellow dot matrix destination display - internal destination displays 3x2 seating that I think was the same as fitted to Mersey 507/508s yellow grab bars and monkey handles
however both the valley lines 142's and the handful that Tyneside sponsored were pretty different internally
Tyneside were the first to add headrests to really odd semi reclined seats (green material)
cant think off hand the full spec for valley lines sets but if I recall rightly the cab doors were modified along with refreshed panelling and improved(??) heating
 

Bletchleyite

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They were the only ones fitted with dot-matrix destination displays (with accompanying internal screens) and the only ones fitted with those horrible seats. Something in the back of my mind is telling me that one or two units only had the seats replaced and didn't get the digital destination boards, but I'm unable to be sure if I'm mistaken in that!

I've not seen one that didn't have the screens. I do note the term "upgrade". I would take that in the same way as any suggestion of "upgrading" to First Class on a Class 350/1, i.e. really downgrading :)
 

NoOnesFool

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The seating on these is awful, it's not so much the low back, it's the upright angle of them, which you'd think would result in more leg room, yet somehow it doesn't.
 

Bletchleyite

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The seating on these is awful, it's not so much the low back, it's the upright angle of them, which you'd think would result in more leg room, yet somehow it doesn't.

The seat backs are really thick, that's the issue. They are off the shelf bus seats (kind of apt) which were common in the late 90s/early 2000s when this downgrade occurred.
 

Geeves

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There was another 142 upgraded with a dot matrix screen before these MerseyRail ones. Can't remember the number but it was in provincial blue which puts it early to mid 90s
 

61653 HTAFC

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3x2 seating that I think was the same as fitted to Mersey 507/508s yellow grab bars and monkey handles
The seats are a type often used in buses around the same time, similar to the much-derided 'Urban90' torture devices. They are not the same as the original Merseyrail ones: those were the same as fitted to all other PEP-derived units and the 455s from new.
 
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There was another 142 upgraded with a dot matrix screen before these MerseyRail ones. Can't remember the number but it was in provincial blue which puts it early to mid 90s
Is this the pilot for the idea? MerseyTravel saw it and wanted it on theirs maybe?

The seats are a type often used in buses around the same time, similar to the much-derided 'Urban90' torture devices. They are not the same as the original Merseyrail ones: those were the same as fitted to all other PEP-derived units and the 455s from new.
Torture devices :)
I must admit there was a few trips taken from Warrington that made me think they were just that. It being Warrington I was often able to take the Central or First North Western services instead of the bouncy buses but then I had to change at Hunts cross to Garston as only the bouncy buses stopped at Allerton station back then
 

Shaw S Hunter

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So nobody really knows where they all are?
They never stayed in the MPTE area?

They were never really in the MPTE area in the first place. There are no services, and weren't back then, that are both diesel operated and wholly within the MPTE boundary. As such all diesel units in/out of Lime Street operate(d) cross-boundary services. But MPTE was determined to leave its mark so it was agreed they would finance the "upgrade" to a proportion of the local fleet with the expectation that they would be diagrammed onto appropriate services. Of course over time they simply became part of the whole fleet and subject to Northern's "random unit generator". TBF efforts were made to keep them west of the Pennines but that was not an absolute rule.
 
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No I think youre right. Even the shorter services from Lime street to Warrington Central went outside the boundry fence for MPTE. For me it has always been a mistake that MPTE tried to take on a greater roll outside the Mersey electric services, had they concentrated on the Northern and Wirral lines they might well be much more than they are today.
When they didnt follow up on their ideas of the late 1970s to create the outer loop they never let go but didnt know what to grasp onto with regards to the City Line because as you said all the services we out the bloody boundary so they couldnt control them anyway.
If their plans had come together then there would have been services that only run within the MPTE boundry but to this date nothing has come of any of their plans outside the Northern and Wirral Lines.
 

sprinterguy

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however both the valley lines 142's and the handful that Tyneside sponsored were pretty different internally
Tyneside were the first to add headrests to really odd semi reclined seats (green material)
All the Northern Spirit operated units, both Heaton and Neville Hill allocated at the time, were refurbished to the same standard with high backed individual seating with headrests, not just the small number sponsored by Tyne & Wear PTE (Who had rebranded as 'Nexus' by the time the refurbishment took place and I believe withdrew funding shortly thereafter following opening of the Sunderland Metro extension). A very few, possibly just those Heaton based units that received Northern Spirit livery, received etched 'Nexus' logos on the glass partitions by the entrance doors.
 

sprinterguy

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They were the only ones fitted with dot-matrix destination displays (with accompanying internal screens) and the only ones fitted with those horrible seats. Something in the back of my mind is telling me that one or two units only had the seats replaced and didn't get the digital destination boards, but I'm unable to be sure if I'm mistaken in that!
I believe that the first batch of Merseyrail liveried units, 142051-058, were repainted in the livery (In late 1993) at least a couple of years before they received either the dot-matrix displays or the internal refurbishment. See photos of 142051, 053 and 057 here for reference:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8105379538/
http://www.hondawanderer.com/142053_Mobberley_1996.htm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jncarter1962/9676075360/in/photostream/
 
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Bletchleyite

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I believe that the first batch of Merseyrail liveried units, 142051-058, were repainted in the livery (In late 1993) at least a couple of years before they received either the dot-matrix displays or the internal refurbishment. See photos of 142051, 053 and 057 here for reference:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8105379538/
http://www.hondawanderer.com/142053_Mobberley_1996.htm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jncarter1962/9676075360/in/photostream/

That livery version was also applied to some 150s (/2s I think) as well as all the 507s and 508s. It started appearing in the early 1990s, well before the refurb was even an evil glint in anyone's eye.

It's not the same livery as the refurbs - this was similar but not quite the same, I think either the grey or black stripe was missing, the black one I think.
 

sprinterguy

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That livery version was also applied to some 150s (/2s I think) as well as all the 507s and 508s. It started appearing in the early 1990s, well before the refurb was even an evil glint in anyone's eye.

It's not the same livery as the refurbs - this was similar but not quite the same, I think either the grey or black stripe was missing, the black one I think.
Yeah the black stripe was omitted from the later livery variant, which was first applied to units 142041-049 when they were refurbished between 2000 and 2001. The original batch of units, 142051-058, did receive dot matrix displays and the new seating while they still wore the livery variant with the black stripe, though.
 
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The seats on the refurbished MPTE Class 142s all face the front like being on a bus (but a few tip-up seats at the front). This means the rear carriage would see virtually all seated passengers being in the opposite direction of travel!
 
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Yes thats the full MerseryRail livery sprinterguy.
It was indeed applied to many 507/508s and some 150/2s, I dont know if the 150/1s ever had it, I cant remember seeing one. the 156s spent little time on the Merseyside routes though. It was a qhile before we saw regular 150/1 or 150/2 diagrams especially on the CLC route to Manchester. That was mostly First North Western.
I dont know if all the 507/508s had the livery, I would imagine so.

Both black and grey stripes were missing from the 142 after the refurb.

It was the change of livery that actually made me interested in the sets at all. I wondered why they were different from the others.
 

sprinterguy

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I dont know if the 150/1s ever had it, I cant remember seeing one.
Just 150/2s, specifically 150201/203-205/207/211/213. All of the North West area 150/1s, 150133-150, ultimately wore the GMPTE 'Executive' dark grey/red/white scheme in Regional Railways days.
 
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So with the MerseyTravel livery firmly established as yellow and white with black and grey stripes why were the stripes omitted from the 142s?
 

507 001

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Yes thats the full MerseryRail livery sprinterguy.
It was indeed applied to many 507/508s and some 150/2s, I dont know if the 150/1s ever had it, I cant remember seeing one. the 156s spent little time on the Merseyside routes though. It was a qhile before we saw regular 150/1 or 150/2 diagrams especially on the CLC route to Manchester. That was mostly First North Western.
I dont know if all the 507/508s had the livery, I would imagine so.

Both black and grey stripes were missing from the 142 after the refurb.

It was the change of livery that actually made me interested in the sets at all. I wondered why they were different from the others.

No 150/1s received Merseyrail livery, just /2s. (150201-208 I think?)
The updated version of Merseyrail (from the Arriva trains Merseyside days) omitted the black stripe but retained the grey stripe. It also used a much lighter shade of yellow. Units later received white doors to comply with DDA legislation. It wasn’t a patch on the original livery.

All the ones in service did.

And most, if not all of the stored ones.
 

brompton rail

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Having had the pleasure of travelling in one of these units the full length of the Cumbrian Coast (Lancaster to Carlisle) my back complained for days after. Actually I eventually transferred to one of the bench seats in the vestibule area which, at least, allowed better views of the coastal scenery and the Isle of Man. These should the first units to go into the crusher!
 
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