Class 315 Withdrawals

[306024]

Some of us remember the last time this happened in 1980, hence the user name

The 306s were way ahead of their time for 1949, but mechanically they were struggling by the end and had to be replaced. Since then the 315s have done a fine job, but time moves on.

If a train is all about moving people, then the 345s can't come quick enough. The growth generated by the Olympic legacy has been incredible to witness, and it hasn't stopped yet.

For the 315 fans, you've still got until May 2019 to travel on them, by which time some of the remaining fleet will be approaching their 40th birthday.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Some of us remember the last time this happened in 1980, hence the user name

The 306s were way ahead of their time for 1949, but mechanically they were struggling by the end and had to be replaced. Since then the 315s have done a fine job, but time moves on.

If a train is all about moving people, then the 345s can't come quick enough. The growth generated by the Olympic legacy has been incredible to witness, and it hasn't stopped yet.

For the 315 fans, you've still got until May 2019 to travel on them, by which time some of the remaining fleet will be approaching their 40th birthday.

You're joking! They're going to take that long to fully introduce all the 345s?

 

[317666]

You're joking! They're going to take that long to fully introduce all the 345s?

There's the LO units on the West Anglia side, which are scheduled to be replaced by 710s - the first of which is planned to enter service next year.

I, for one, will miss the 315s - but then I'm a big fan of clapped out, DC-motored commuter units, hence the username!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There's the LO units on the West Anglia side, which are scheduled to be replaced by 710s - the first of which is planned to enter service next year.

I, for one, will miss the 315s - but then I'm a big fan of clapped out, DC-motored commuter units, hence the username!

Well, I like 317s and SN 313s, so you're not alone. Don't like Dusty Bins though and cannot STAND 313s (GN)/314s/315s and 319s.

I think 318s look quite cool with their front ends though...

 

[samuelmorris]

My understanding is all the 315s on TfL Rail should be gone by around May-June next year, around the time TfL take over Heathrow Connect services. Around this time the first 710s will start being introduced from Liverpool Street and I imagine the rest of them will all be gone by the following Spring ready for delivery of the 720s and 701(?)s to begin in earnest as the last of the 345s are produced.

 

[306024]

My understanding is all the 315s on TfL Rail should be gone by around May-June next year, around the time TfL take over Heathrow Connect services. Around this time the first 710s will start being introduced from Liverpool Street and I imagine the rest of them will all be gone by the following Spring ready for delivery of the 720s and 701(?)s to begin in earnest as the last of the 345s are produced.

For all the 315s to be gone by then, something like 25 x 7 car 345s would have to be produced to replace all the existing fleet. Fast forward to May 2019, and suddenly you have 25 units that all need lengthening to 9 cars virtually overnight as the service is diverted from Liverpool St into the tunnel.

This in itself isn't simply a case of shunting two extra coaches in, there is some testing to do to ensure each unit configures correctly. Therefore just 15 x 7 car 345s are to be built to make this transition possible without affecting the timetable. Hence some 315s will remain in traffic until May 2019.

 

[samuelmorris]

I doubt that to be honest - first it'd only be 22 345s as there are only 44 315s on the TfL Rail side to displace. Secondly, there is a 5 month period between when the Elizabeth line core opens and when the GE side is connected to it. They will need a fair number of 345s to run the Paddington - Abbey Wood services, I would guess around 16-17, so there would probably be nearly 40 units in service by the time we reach that opening date, with maybe 40% of those already at 9-car length. Further, there will be another 6-7 month period before the 345s have to operate west of Hayes and Harlington - whilst they would have to withdraw units from service for a fair length of time to have the extra 2 vehicles added, there will be plenty of 9-car units around to take their place - the current 7-car crop only need to be lengthened ready to run the Maidenhead and Reading services. Unless a problem is identified, I would be surprised to see any TfL Rail 315s operating 12 months from now.

 

[Wivenswold]

From memory, there's only 15 x 7 car units coming, the rest will be 9 car. 345018 is being tested at Old Dalby in a nine car consist.

So there will be a few 315s knocking about until the Tunnel opens, possibly beyond that for the Liverpool Street peak extras on Crossrail. Liverpool Street will only be able to take 9 car 345s once the core has been opened and it's platforms have been reconfigured.

 

[samuelmorris]

Hmm, that's a little odd, but now you mention it, I do recall seeing the 15 figure somewhere before. That would indeed leave several 315s running long after all the others have been withdrawn, which I can't see the reason for.

 

[Emblematic]

I thought it was 14 seven car sets, but the exact number doesn't really matter. I think the rationale is that, once the Shenfield line is switched to the core, the 7 car units all need to be lengthened so are effectively unavailable. So, come May 2019, you need to have enough 9-car sets to run the whole Crossrail service, bar the GW end beyond Heathrow. That may not be possible with 20+ sets unavailable. I would say that retiring the 315s is a very secondary consideration.

Edit: I'd missed 306024's post who already made this point - apologies!

 

[MCR247]

Hmm, that's a little odd, but now you mention it, I do recall seeing the 15 figure somewhere before. That would indeed leave several 315s running long after all the others have been withdrawn, which I can't see the reason for.

Hasn't the reason been explained in the above posts?

 

[samuelmorris]

Not exactly, the only reason I can think of is the anticipation that if they replaced all the 345s with 7-car units, that they wouldn't be able to extend them all in the period between when Stratford is connected to the core and when the full fleet is required after the GWML is connected.

 

[Emblematic]

Not exactly, the only reason I can think of is the anticipation that if they replaced all the 345s with 7-car units, that they wouldn't be able to extend them all in the period between when Stratford is connected to the core and when the full fleet is required after the GWML is connected.

That won't be it, they will be able to do the conversions in the available time easily. The issue is on day 1, when you cut over. You need, let's say, 22 seven car units for Shenfield service- but when you take these away, you would have at most 48 nine car units to run GE, Abbey Wood, Core and Heathrow when you join Stratford. That sounds unlikely. If it's only 14, then you now have 56 units, which rises to 70 to cover Reading in the final stage.

 

[MCR247]

That won't be it, they will be able to do the conversions in the available time easily. The issue is on day 1, when you cut over. You need, let's say, 22 seven car units for Shenfield service- but when you take these away, you would have at most 48 nine car units to run GE, Abbey Wood, Core and Heathrow when you join Stratford. That sounds unlikely. If it's only 14, then you now have 56 units, which rises to 70 to cover Reading in the final stage.

That makes sense to me

 

[samuelmorris]

Working out the proportional time (assuming all turnarounds are roughly the same on average) I came up with:

Reading - Abbey Wood: 20.7%
Maidenhead - Abbey Wood: 8.6%
Heathrow T4 - Abbey Wood: 15.4%
Heathrow T5 - Abbey Wood: 7.7%
Paddington - Shenfield: 39.9%
Liverpool Street - Gidea Park: 7.7%

Looking at the situation between May and December 2019:
Paddington - Shenfield: 39.9%
Liverpool Street - Gidea Park: 7.7%
Paddington - Abbey Wood: 24.5%
Spare: 27.9%

and between December 2018 and May 2019
Liverpool Street - Shenfield 7.5tph: 20.6%
Liverpool Street - Gidea Park 7.5tph: 14.9%
Paddington - Abbey Wood: 24.5%
Spare: 40.0%

So indeed, based on a fleet size of 70 units, by the time GE is connected you could have no more than 19-20 units away. I stand corrected

 

[700007]

315840+315848 seem to have moved further inside the depot - with the pantographs raised again. But the interesting observation is that 315851 is now coupled to 315848. Is 851 the next one to leave?

 

[Olaf]

Heard a rumour that the Seven Valley Railway is interested in a few 315s for when it replaces its steam-hauled fleet with third-rail kit.

 

[700007]

Heard a rumour that the Seven Valley Railway is interested in a few 315s for when it replaces its steam-hauled fleet with third-rail kit.

I would love that!

 

[D365]

Third rail kit???

 

[prod_pep]

315840+315848 seem to have moved further inside the depot - with the pantographs raised again. But the interesting observation is that 315851 is now coupled to 315848. Is 851 the next one to leave?

315848 was coupled with 315818 at Ilford last Saturday so perhaps it is just being shunted around the depot.

 

[MatthewRead]

Heard a rumour that the Seven Valley Railway is interested in a few 315s for when it replaces its steam-hauled fleet with third-rail kit.

They aren't third rail unless you mean the 313's.

 

[robbeech]

Managed 345009 From Liverpool street to Brentwood where i stayed Monday night. Really really like the trains but whilst i appreciate that is almost as long a journey as you can do on one CURRENTLY, i certainly knew i'd been sat on those seats and was ready to stand up.

 

[Wivenswold]

Have any more 315s been withdrawn? Must be some slack in the fleet by now.

 

[Olaf]

Third rail kit???

Yes; They were after a few sets of 442's but with others having since shown a renewed interest in the plastic-pigs, they have decided they do not meet their exacting standards of having only the best old junk that no one else wants. The 315s will go through a conversion to DC instead.

 

[Brian Aylott]

Have any more 315s been withdrawn? Must be some slack in the fleet by now.

No 315s have been withdrawn
840 and 848 have been reformed - see the next Railway Magazine
- one for service and one for repair
None will be withdrawn until their lease is up
Brian

 

[700007]

It seems 851 is now coupled to 854 and has been sent to the sidings by the Tunneling Academy between Ilford and Manor Park.

 

[physics34]

No 315s have been withdrawn
840 and 848 have been reformed - see the next Railway Magazine
- one for service and one for repair
None will be withdrawn until their lease is up
Brian

But i guess they will start to be stored soon otherwise they will just be in the way

 

[goblinuser]

Heard a rumour that the Seven Valley Railway is interested in a few 315s for when it replaces its steam-hauled fleet with third-rail kit.

Are they electrifying their heritage track?

 

[jopsuk]

Heard a rumour that the Seven Valley Railway is interested in a few 315s for when it replaces its steam-hauled fleet with third-rail kit.

Which bridge do you live under?

 

[zn1]

the 315s - a squadron of hard working, unassuming EMUS, maintenance friendly, like their PEP Sister Squadrons, once they go, they will be missed, one can only hope that the Rosco will save one or for posterity -as shenfield 016 was saved for apprentices, but in these modern times there isnt an Ernst Birchler running ilford depot anymore...

personally i have had plenty of miles on em....They will be missed by IL maintenance teams i suspect