Class 319's into storage/withdrawals tracker

[Class455]

Thought it would be best to create a thread for this rather than clog up other Thameslink related threads about the 319's heading to storage. This thread is also to keep track of all Class 319's in storage along with units that have been scrapped.

The Class 319's are now all withdrawn from passenger service and they are either in storage in the following locations or no longer exist:
Stored at Long Marston
319362
319363
319371
319382 (was converted to HydroFLEX 799201)
319376

Stored at Crewe South Yard
319441 (ntu by ROG/Orion Logistics)

Stored at Eastleigh Works
319011*(ntu by ROG/Orion Logistics)
319377 (ntu by ROG/Orion Logistics)
319380 (ntu by ROG/Orion Logistics)

In use with the Ministry of Defence (expected to be scrapped)
319220

Scrapped
319001* (converted to Hydrogen FLEX demonstrator, renumbered 799001)
319004
319005
319012
319013
319214
319215
319216
319217
319218
319219
319361
319363
319364
319365
319366
319367
319368
319370
319372
319374
319375
319376
319377
319378
319379
319380
319381
319383
319384
319385
319386
319426 (was due to be 769426)
319429
319433
319451
319453
319454
319455
319457
319460

Units still in Thameslink service
None

Units still in Northern service
None

Units still in London Northwestern Railway service
None

I will update this list as more locations of storage are changed or more units are scrapped.

Last Updated: 13/05/2024

 

[NSE]

I doubt they'll stay there too long. They're perfectly decent EMU's capable of high capacity loading during rush hours.

 

[387star]

where are 319004/005/431/442/448?
Wolverton?

 

[MatthewRead]

If it wasn't for all these delayed electrification projects then they could have new homes to go to

 

[Class455]

where are 319004/005/431/442/448?
Wolverton?

I believe so, 319 218 and 219 are already at Allerton.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I doubt they'll stay there too long. They're perfectly decent EMU's

Unless LM's maintenance engineers are incompetent, I think they are proving to be nothing of the sort. It's 321s that I would expect to be in a lot more demand once a load become available when East Anglia's new EMUs come along.

 

[sk688]

I doubt they'll stay there too long. [/B]They're perfectly decent EMU's capable of high capacity loading during rush hours.

Hardly so. They are horrible inside, worn after 30 years Abuse on thameslink, unreliable ( as shown by the LM units), uncomfortable and noisy.

The scrapyard should be the next place for them ( or Northern to solve capacity issues)

 

[Supercoss]

After the Translator coaches (Tightlock one end/drawhook & buffers the other) arrived at Cricklewood and spllt, the 319s actually driven under own power into the Translator coach before other end Translator attached with loco on other end. Pan down. key out and away. Whilst shoebeams remain the actual collector shoes removed from each driving trailer.
Future moves expected to be done with adaptor coupling fitted loco only without the Translator coaches i'm told

 

[47802]

Other than those used on Northern I don't see much future for them other than the flex project for which they have an advantage over the AC only units, given the large numbers of AC units that will become available in the next few years, many of which are newer or better refurbished.

 

[edwin_m]

I agree, and I suggest that's why Porterbrook are pushing the Flex concept. Without it there's little chance of anyone else signing up for the 60 or so units that aren't going to Northern.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If they were given a really good overhaul and refurb to the level that SWTs did with their 455s & 456s could many more years of service potentially be squeezed out of them?

 

[Darandio]

Hardly so. They are horrible inside, worn after 30 years Abuse on thameslink, unreliable ( as shown by the LM units), uncomfortable and noisy.

The scrapyard should be the next place for them ( or Northern to solve capacity issues)

The Northern stock issue in a nutshell.

Worn, abused, unreliable, uncomfortable, noisy........but more than good enough for those in the north.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Unless LM's maintenance engineers are incompetent, I think they are proving to be nothing of the sort. It's 321s that I would expect to be in a lot more demand once a load become available when East Anglia's new EMUs come along.

I can't understand why the DfT isn't forcing LM to take some more of them. There is frequent shortforming out of Euston and about 5 8-car trains in the peaks that have passengers standing more than the contractual 20 minutes.

As well as that, if Bromsgrove does get wired for December 2017 then LM's successor won't have the units for the extension as far as I can see. Further 319s would allow a 319 > 350 > 323 cascade within either franchise.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Dont forget there are 10 350/4 coming available in 2019

 

[D365]

Dont forget there are 10 350/4 coming available in 2019

Along with 17 Class 323s, 21(+6?) Class 360s, the 100-odd Class 321s... Bidders aren't exactly hard-pressed for choice.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Along with 17 Class 323s, 21(+6?) Class 360s, the 100-odd Class 321s... Bidders aren't exactly hard-pressed for choice.

But all too late for December 2017 or overcrowding now.

 

[MatthewRead]

Hardly so. They are horrible inside, worn after 30 years Abuse on thameslink, unreliable ( as shown by the LM units), uncomfortable and noisy.

The scrapyard should be the next place for them ( or Northern to solve capacity issues)

No there not they are much cleaner and comfortable than the Electrostars

 

[MML]

Could the Class 319 Flex be used on the London Bridge - Uckfield service ?
Might help to release Class 170 elsewhere where 3rd rail is not available for part of the journey.

 

[D365]

Could the Class 319 Flex be used on the London Bridge - Uckfield service ?
Might help to release Class 170 elsewhere where 3rd rail is not available for part of the journey.

Sure we've had this discussion before, and I believe the answer was that Mk3-derived stock is not cleared through a particular tunnel.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Thought it would be best to create a thread for this rather than clog up other Thameslink related threads about the 319's heading to storage

Great thread

It would be nice to record and trace movements of TL 319's as they are taken off lease.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Wouldnt the 20m length of the individual coaches of a 319 make a difference when compared to 23m HST or LHCS?

Im not local so Im not aware of the route gague limitations

 

[Marklund]

Wouldnt the 20m length of the individual coaches of a 319 make a difference when compared to 23m HST or LHCS?

Im not local so Im not aware of the route gague limitations

If the dimensions on Wikipedia are to believed, the 319 is shorter than the class 150, and very, very slightly wider.

If the class 950 TRU can go down there, (can it?) then the 319 would be too, I'd guess.

 

[bnsf734]

According to my 2014 Rail Guide written by Colin Marsden Class 150 and 319 are the same width and almost the same length:-

Class 150
width 2.82m 9ft 3in
length 19.74m 64ft 9.75in

Class 319
width 2.82m 9ft 3in
length 19.83m 65ft .75in (Driving cars)
length 19.92m 65ft 4.25in (intermediate cars)

 

[physics34]

the 319 restrictions through oxted tunnel are due to the shape of a mk3 coach.

 

[Bletchleyite]

According to my 2014 Rail Guide written by Colin Marsden Class 150 and 319 are the same width and almost the same length:-

Class 150
width 2.82m 9ft 3in
length 19.74m 64ft 9.75in

Class 319
width 2.82m 9ft 3in
length 19.83m 65ft .75in (Driving cars)
length 19.92m 65ft 4.25in (intermediate cars)

Surprised the 319 is longer, even if only fractionally so - I thought it was the same body.

 

[D365]

Surprised the 319 is longer, even if only fractionally so - I thought it was the same body.

Possibly down to the different cab ends on the later Mk3-derived EMUs?

 

[Class377/5]

Possibly down to the different cab ends on the later Mk3-derived EMUs?

Yes. The 319 cab isn't flat so adds to the overall length. It's this that's means 319s won't fit down Merseyrail's tunnels either.

 

[A0]

I can't understand why the DfT isn't forcing LM to take some more of them. There is frequent shortforming out of Euston and about 5 8-car trains in the peaks that have passengers standing more than the contractual 20 minutes.

As well as that, if Bromsgrove does get wired for December 2017 then LM's successor won't have the units for the extension as far as I can see. Further 319s would allow a 319 > 350 > 323 cascade within either franchise.

I suspect LM don't want them, probably in part due the problems they've had with the few they've already taken.

I'd expect Northern to be asked to part with their 323s to go to the West Mids - I have a feeling some of the West Mids platforms aren't long enough for 8 car units, so 319s wouldn't be the answer, whereas more 323s would be.

And didn't I read somewhere that Mk3 EMUs aren't cleared north of Rugby towards Birmingham now? So further 319s would be very limited in terms of what they can / can't do.

And I expect LM have got their eyes on the 350/4s which are coming available - thereby giving them a standard 323, 350 EMU fleet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And I expect LM have got their eyes on the 350/4s which are coming available - thereby giving them a standard 323, 350 EMU fleet.

If LM were to take all the 350s as they become available, the initial batch would replace the 319s nicely, while the rest (i.e. the East Anglia and HConn ones) would be a nice growth build. I would expect to see this in proposals for the new franchise, and would be less likely to see new stock, though it wouldn't totally surprise me to see something that is a bit more of an outlier, like new 125mph Desiro Citys with a higher spec interior for the Trent Valley services.

 

[northwichcat]

I'd expect Northern to be asked to part with their 323s to go to the West Mids

The 17 x 323s will leave Northern on 1st January 2019. Porterbrook hope the winning LM bidder will take them on but there's no guarantee that'll happen. I get the impression Porterbrook blocked Northern bidders from securing them on a long term lease in the hope of getting them to lease upgraded 319s instead but Arriva decided 331s would be a better proposition.