Class 345 progress

rd749249

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The acceleration of the 345 is most impressive. In fact, my old manager said that they'd been throttled-down a while ago as they were a bit too feisty. I was about a unit's length behind a Hitachi the other day and roared past it as we both took our speeds up to 80 near OOC.
 
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Railperf

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The acceleration of the 345 is most impressive. In fact, my old manager said that they'd been throttled-down a while ago as they were a bit too feisty. I was about a unit's length behind a Hitachi the other day and roared past it as we both took our speeds up to 80 near OOC.
They are very fast 0 to 80mph in 60 seconds. Looks like the Anglia class 755s are faster though!
 

JonathanH

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Just as I thought that there might be a steady position with the conversion of 7-car units (and I had got 345063 for haulage), I note from the 'cleaner's sheet' at Hayes & Harlington that 345020 operated shuttles on 23 December.

It has then turned up on 9P16 1930 Reading to London Paddington so I can confirm it is a 7-car.

I reckon the passenger fleet is therefore currently:

345003/5-17/22 original 7-cars
345027/8/30/4/5/7 9-cars in service (*)
345020/9/38-40/2/4/7/9/51/2/5-7/9/63/4 converted 7-cars

(*) these are not in use since the new timetable as I don't think there are currently any 9-car workings.

Are there any more than this in use?
 

cactustwirly

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Just as I thought that there might be a steady position with the conversion of 7-car units (and I had got 345063 for haulage), I note from the 'cleaner's sheet' at Hayes & Harlington that 345020 operated shuttles on 23 December.

It has then turned up on 9P16 1930 Reading to London Paddington so I can confirm it is a 7-car.

I reckon the passenger fleet is therefore currently:

345003/5-17/22 original 7-cars
345027/8/30/4/5/7 9-cars in service (*)
345020/9/38-40/2/4/7/9/51/2/5-7/9/63/4 converted 7-cars

(*) these are not in use since the new timetable as I don't think there are currently any 9-car workings.

Are there any more than this in use?
Pretty sure I've seen 008 out as a 7 car
 

Tw99

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I had my first journey on one of these yesterday, from Paddington to Reading in the evening peak. They're certainly a massive downgrade on the 387s that we'd got used to, and rather less comfortable than a 165/166 as well, even if they will be effective at moving large numbers of people through central london in a couple of years. I'm not sure how they've made the longitudinal seating quite so uncomfortable, it seemed worse than the tube! At least I'm fortunate only to be an occasional user.
 

samuelmorris

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I had my first journey on one of these yesterday, from Paddington to Reading in the evening peak. They're certainly a massive downgrade on the 387s that we'd got used to, and rather less comfortable than a 165/166 as well, even if they will be effective at moving large numbers of people through central london in a couple of years. I'm not sure how they've made the longitudinal seating quite so uncomfortable, it seemed worse than the tube! At least I'm fortunate only to be an occasional user.
Tube seating is considerably more padded than the 345s, especially the S-stock.
 

Non Multi

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Tube seating is considerably more padded than the 345s, especially the S-stock.
Reminds me that I recently used the Jubilee line, only to find a seat base that I sat on was exactly as firm as on the 345s. The new standard foam is slowly spreading it's unpleasantness across the TfL network...
 

rebmcr

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Reminds me that I recently used the Jubilee line, only to find a seat base that I sat on was exactly as firm as on the 345s. The new standard foam is slowly spreading it's unpleasantness across the TfL network...
I believe the seating on '96 Tube Stock is simply the moquette covering plastic bucket seats, no padding.
 

Kite159

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So on the Heathrow branch will be 4tph soon? All to T4, or a mix of T4 and T5? (I presume 6tph to Heathrow isn't going to be feasible until the central section is open?)
I would assume the units which currently terminate at Hayes will be extended to Terminal 4 with the "Terminal 4 - Terminal 2/3" shuttle being dropped to free up the paths on the single track to T4.
 

matt_world2004

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I would assume the units which currently terminate at Hayes will be extended to Terminal 4 with the "Terminal 4 - Terminal 2/3" shuttle being dropped to free up the paths on the single track to T4.
I think that's the plan there is no financial advantage to TfL running a shuttle from terminal 4-1-2-3 given they don't get direct ticket revenue for it (I do believe though some of the costs are deducted from track access fees for the costs of conveying passengers for free between terminals)
 

D365

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I think that's the plan there is no financial advantage to TfL running a shuttle from terminal 4-1-2-3 given they don't get direct ticket revenue for it
Heathrow Connect was only 2tph, so I thought the shuttle was run to provide a 4tph service (which won't be needed with the 345s).
 

matt_world2004

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Heathrow Connect was only 2tph, so I thought the shuttle was run to provide a 4tph service (which won't be needed with the 345s).
The shuttle was run before TfL took over the Heathrow connect there are not enough class 360s to provide for a full 4tph between Heathrow and Paddington. There is a service level committment for 4tph from terminal 4 between HAL and TfL but all journies from terminal 4 to Central are free so TfL do not get any money for it.
 

Roger B

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Are any other 345s accepted for service apart from those noted above in this thread as working, and if so which other units have been accepted for service? And if it were possible to advise which units (if any) have been accepted into service so far this year that would be most appreciated. Many thanks.
 

Goldfish62

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Reminds me that I recently used the Jubilee line, only to find a seat base that I sat on was exactly as firm as on the 345s. The new standard foam is slowly spreading it's unpleasantness across the TfL network...
I actually find the Jubilee line stock seating rather comfortable. Yes, it's firm, but very well contoured, spreading the body weight very effectively. It's no way as firm as the seats on the 345s, though.

I think the seat firmness is a symptom of the need for mainline stock compliance, whereas LU stock are exempt from the various requirements, eg seat foam density.
 

JonathanH

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Are any other 345s accepted for service apart from those noted above in this thread as working, and if so which other units have been accepted for service? And if it were possible to advise which units (if any) have been accepted into service so far this year that would be most appreciated. Many thanks.
It seems to me that we shouldn't be expecting any more 7-car units now as the west-side timetable is settled and there isn't any point converting more 7-cars than they need. I listed 32 7-car units on 31 December. There were also 6 9-car units (but no work for them at the moment).

One of two things presumably happens next - 9-car operation at off-peak times to get the software sorted out
- operation to Heathrow

If operation to Heathrow is to be 7-car I assume that they have enough already converted to cover this. If they get 9-car working first, they need to actually have some 9 cars to put in service (although I guess a mixed operation is possible for a while).
 

Roger B

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It seems to me that we shouldn't be expecting any more 7-car units now as the west-side timetable is settled and there isn't any point converting more 7-cars than they need. I listed 32 7-car units on 31 December. There were also 6 9-car units (but no work for them at the moment).

One of two things presumably happens next - 9-car operation at off-peak times to get the software sorted out
- operation to Heathrow

If operation to Heathrow is to be 7-car I assume that they have enough already converted to cover this. If they get 9-car working first, they need to actually have some 9 cars to put in service (although I guess a mixed operation is possible for a while).
Many thanks JonathanH - just the info I was looking for, cheers
 
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It seems to me that we shouldn't be expecting any more 7-car units now as the west-side timetable is settled and there isn't any point converting more 7-cars than they need. I listed 32 7-car units on 31 December. There were also 6 9-car units (but no work for them at the moment).
Given there are 32 7 cars have they not got enough to eliminate 315's off the East side?
 

hwl

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Given there are 32 7 cars have they not got enough to eliminate 315's off the East side?
They will still need 315 to cover for 345s to enable 7 to 9 car conversion when the Liverpool Street high level platform work happens and/or through running from Shenfield to Paddington low level starts. Eliminating 315s isn't as simple as having "enough" 345s in the short term.
 

samuelmorris

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They will still need 315 to cover for 345s to enable 7 to 9 car conversion when the Liverpool Street high level platform work happens and/or through running from Shenfield to Paddington low level starts. Eliminating 315s isn't as simple as having "enough" 345s in the short term.
This always was the reason, but with the use of 7-cars over on the West side as well, they've now gone way past the number of 7-car units that they can use to facilitate that, so I'm not really sure what the plan is now. Presumably when the software issues are finally resolved, the West side units will go to 9-car before the tunnels open.
 

JonathanH

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This always was the reason, but with the use of 7-cars over on the West side as well, they've now gone way past the number of 7-car units that they can use to facilitate that, so I'm not really sure what the plan is now. Presumably when the software issues are finally resolved, the West side units will go to 9-car before the tunnels open.
I assume it is possible that, given the 'early' 7-car 345s have gone to the west side and the new ones are working their way over to the east side, 345003-17/22 may be extended to 9-car using their late build coaches and it will be the high numbered 7-car units which remain on the east side.
 

samuelmorris

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I assume it is possible that, given the 'early' 7-car 345s have gone to the west side and the new ones are working their way over to the east side, 345003-17/22 may be extended to 9-car using their late build coaches and it will be the high numbered 7-car units which remain on the east side.
I don't think there's much of a pattern to it, we have 040, 049 etc. over here but we also have I think 005 and 009?
 

hwl

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@samuelmorris + @JonathanH

1. Extra 7cars is short term measure till they get ETCS + some software / Heathrow Tunnels sorted at which point more 9car are needed, but this should be easily managed given the 9cars floating around OOC. It would be sensible to go 9car on the current 7car western routes get them bedded in then go for Heathrow branch to de-risk things a bit.
2. As far as it understand it the newly shortened 7car going east was to do with the Ilford being practised in bedding 7car units in reliably and getting milage in at quicker rate than out west. It also sent bedded in units out west which might highlight what are train vs infrastructure issues better and help with snagging.
3. With the big opening phases 2.5 years behind lots of 9cars needed for mid 2021 and Abbey Wood -Paddington opening as well as all the testing before hand (realistically 8-10 test units) after this there isn't much float as they are already running the Reading/Maidenhead routes with 345s which wasn't part of the original plan
 

JonathanH

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@samuelmorris + @JonathanH

1. Extra 7cars is short term measure till they get ETCS + some software / Heathrow Tunnels sorted at which point more 9car are needed, but this should be easily managed given the 9cars floating around OOC. It would be sensible to go 9car on the current 7car western routes get them bedded in then go for Heathrow branch to de-risk things a bit.
2. As far as it understand it the newly shortened 7car going east was to do with the Ilford being practised in bedding 7car units in reliably and getting milage in at quicker rate than out west. It also sent bedded in units out west which might highlight what are train vs infrastructure issues better and help with snagging.
3. With the big opening phases 2.5 years behind lots of 9cars needed for mid 2021 and Abbey Wood -Paddington opening as well as all the testing before hand (realistically 8-10 test units) after this there isn't much float as they are already running the Reading/Maidenhead routes with 345s which wasn't part of the original plan
Thanks - how much 9-car testing on the west side is going on? I note that there are still diagrams during the day for running empty 345s but the level of activity there was before the December timetable change seems to have dropped off.

Are the following just driver training rather than testing?

5G50 1008 Old Oak Depot to Reading
5G51 1133 Reading to Maidenhead Carriage Sdgs
5G52 1305 Maidenhead Carriage Sdgs to Reading Sig. T1732
5G53 1358 Reading Sig. T1732 to Old Oak Depot

5G56 1038 Old Oak Depot to Reading Sig. T1732
5G57 1226 Reading Sig. T1732 to Maidenhead Carriage Sdgs
5G58 1402 Maidenhead Carriage Sdgs to Reading
5G59 1433 Reading to Old Oak Depot

The above are permanently timetabled. The below are Q paths and obviously STP schedules can be set up.

5G54 2008 Old Oak Depot to Maidenhead Reversing Sdgs
5G55 2140 Maidenhead Reversing Sdgs to Old Oak Depot

5G60 2038 Old Oak Depot to Maidenhead Reversing Sdgs
5G61 2213 Maidenhead Reversing Sdgs to Old Oak Depot

It looks like there was a 345 at Heathrow on Saturday testing all day
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...8/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=ZZ
(the inbound working replaced by https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O81666/2020-01-18/detailed)
 

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