Class 345 progress

kevin_roche

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The minutes of the November Crossrail Sponsor Board are also on the TfL web site: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/sponsor-board-minutes-part-b-15-november-2019.pdf

They confirm some of the things we have discussed above about 345s on services to Heathrow and the possibility that 9-car trains will be used from April:
Sponsors questioned CRL on the plans to put the 9-car trains in service. CRL stated that this was predicated on addressing two technical issues before being approved by MTR’s Safety Validation Panel for service. CRL estimated the swapping out of the 7-car train with 9 car trains by early Spring 2020. CRL updated that they were expecting to commence driver training with a 9-car at Heathrow from December 2019. Once a functioning train was approved for passenger service, it is likely to operate on services to Reading as part of a phased introduction, before being deployed to operated to Heathrow.
On Software there is again no clear separation between that for the train and that for the signalling infrastructure:
Rolling Stock and Signalling Software
CRL highlighted that although train software development is on the critical path, progress is being made with release of the next version (P_D+11), due in December 2019. Sponsors challenged CRL on whether P_D+11 would be adequate to commence Trial Running. CRL stated that a view would need to be taken on the functionality and reliability of the software but that P_D+11 could be suitable for building reliability and that P_D+12 would build on functionality necessary to enter [Trial] Running. Sponsors requested an update on the P_D+11 software development and the requirement for version P_D+12 for Trial Running [redacted] to provide a collective focus on a date. Sponsors asked CRL to provide an update on a realistic target date for Trial Running once they had completed their due diligence.
It looks (from other posts above) as if the transition testing between CBTC and TPWS and between TPWS and ETCS is well underway. I am keeping my fingers crossed that P_D+11 continues to prove usable for services to Reading and later to Heathrow. If not, waiting for the delivery of P_D+12 will likely be at least 3 months away.
 
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Roger B

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Working the west side yesterday (29/01) were: 345012, 345013, 345014, 345016, 345017, 345055, 345057, 345059, 345063 and 345064 (all 7-car).

No 9-car 345s were seen in service in over a three-hour period.
 

goldenarrow

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The unit sent down to Heathrow tonight seems to have gotten into difficulty at the ETCS boundary causing a 10 min stand off. It's set route was subsequently cancelled is and is currently heading back to OOC via the Down Airport Relief.

It may have only been 10 mins but it sure has called for some interesting moves, HEX reversing in Platform 1 at 2&3 due to late running, HEX service directly behind has been sent "long way round" via Heathrow Tunnel Jct and the Up Airport.
 
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JonathanH

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The unit sent down to Heathrow tonight seems to have gotten into difficulty at the ETCS boundary causing a 20 min stand off. It's set route was subsequently cancelled is and is currently heading back to OOC via the Main Line up to Southall then hence via the Relief.
Do they use 7 or 9 car units on this testing?
 

kevin_roche

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There is a good overview of the story so far on the Crossrail signalling issues posted on the railway gazette web site today.

https://www.railwaygazette.com/in-d...enge-blows-crossrail-off-course/55661.article

On January 9, the Crossrail board agreed that a realistic opening date was somewhere in the summer of 2021 for the new-build central section linking Paddington with Abbey Wood, with the full service commencing in ‘mid-2022’. This is widely assumed to mean May 2022 to coincide with the biannual timetable change, which would constitute a delay of almost two and half years. The budget, meanwhile, had risen from £15·8bn when the Crossrail bill received Royal Assent to £17·8bn by July 2019.
The world had changed
Use of software on the railway is clearly nothing new, having formed part of computer-based signalling systems for decades. What has changed dramatically in the past 10 years is how software has moved to the core of train control systems, to the point where it can no longer be regarded as a set of discreet packages.
 

samuelmorris

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kevin_roche

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From the Weekend Travel Information email received today from TfL it looks like transition tests are going on this weekend.

TfL Rail
On Sunday 9 February, there will be no service between Liverpool Street and Ilford. This is due to Crossrail train testing from new tunnels to Network Rail infrastructure.
 

Snow1964

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From the Weekend Travel Information email received today from TfL it looks like transition tests are going on this weekend.
Is the Sunday service nowadays so frequent that can't fit all the trains down one pair of tracks (or perhaps that should be 3 out of 4 tracks) bearing in mind the reversible sections near Forest Gate. Perhaps the 345s accelerate too slowly to do an all stations service between the other trains.

I am assuming they only need to share tracks on the Ilford (or Forest Gate) - Bow section not the whole Liverpool Street-Shenfield section. The crossovers are usable and designed for this purpose so idea it adds risk seems weak
 
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samuelmorris

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Is the Sunday service nowadays so frequent that can't fit all the trains down one pair of tracks (or perhaps that should be 3 out of 4 tracks) bearing in mind the reversible sections near Forest Gate. Perhaps the 345s accelerate too slowly to do an all stations service between the other trains.
There are a lot of stations. Stratford to Shenfield is 35 minutes on a stopping service, 15 for a non-stop Anglia service. Crossing from one set of lines to the other also adds risk and delay.
 

matt_world2004

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Is the Sunday service nowadays so frequent that can't fit all the trains down one pair of tracks (or perhaps that should be 3 out of 4 tracks) bearing in mind the reversible sections near Forest Gate. Perhaps the 345s accelerate too slowly to do an all stations service between the other trains.
I think the tests need to be done under possession because of the possibility of failure and because the process is not signed off yet
 

matt_world2004

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On the 29th March there will be a reduced service on the gwml to allow crossrail train interface testing. do not know if this is the Royal Oak portal or the Heathrow junction signalling interface.
 

JonathanH

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On the 29th March there will be a reduced service on the gwml to allow crossrail train interface testing. do not know if this is the Royal Oak portal or the Heathrow junction signalling interface.
Royal Oak - highest numbered platform in use at Paddington is 11 and the trains are still running to Heathrow.
 

kevin_roche

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More testing is planned this weekend on the western lines, from the TfL Weekend Travel Information:

On Sunday 16 February, trains will not stop at Acton Main Line and West Ealing stations. A reduced service of two trains an hour will operate between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington. This is due to Crossrail and Network Rail testing.
Any one taking bets on blockages at Airport Junction?
 

Snow1964

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More testing is planned this weekend on the western lines, from the TfL Weekend Travel Information:



Any one taking bets on blockages at Airport Junction?
This is an odd choice of closure time, with the Piccadilly Line and District line closed all weekend (track work at Hammersmith, and drainage elsewhere). Makes it very difficult to get to West London and airport. Doesn't seem like very joined up thinking going on at TfL management level to have sanctioned these simultaneously.
 

kevin_roche

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This is an odd choice of closure time, with the Piccadilly Line and District line closed all weekend (track work at Hammersmith, and drainage elsewhere). Makes it very difficult to get to West London and airport. Doesn't seem like very joined up thinking going on at TfL management level to have sanctioned these simultaneously.
There seems to have been little evidence of joined up thinking since the order for these trains were placed. They have had to cobble together software from two competing companies to make it work.
 

hwl

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There seems to have been little evidence of joined up thinking since the order for these trains were placed. They have had to cobble together software from two competing companies to make it work.
They still would have had to cobble together the software whatever happened - the signalling software and technology is from Matra whose rail signalling division was a relatively recent Siemens purchase and has never been used with Siemens rolling stock before so Siemens rolling stock wouldn't have been much different and Desiro City didn't meet the CR rolling stock requirements in a few areas without some big changes.
Core problem was lack of systems integration experience in crossrail to leave enough time for the required work to be done.
 

hwl

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This is an odd choice of closure time, with the Piccadilly Line and District line closed all weekend (track work at Hammersmith, and drainage elsewhere). Makes it very difficult to get to West London and airport. Doesn't seem like very joined up thinking going on at TfL management level to have sanctioned these simultaneously.
They probably needed to grab the opportunity to do 345 testing when it became available, still trying to work round LU closures at this stage would inject yet more delays.
 

Trailfinder

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Most evenings nowadays class 345s are shuttling between Hayes and Harlington loop and Terminal 5 while the Hex and TFL Rail services are operating, the TPWS/ETCS transition must be working satisfactory.

How long will it be before a cl345 replaces a cl360?
 

matt_world2004

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Most evenings nowadays class 345s are shuttling between Hayes and Harlington loop and Terminal 5 while the Hex and TFL Rail services are operating, the TPWS/ETCS transition must be working satisfactory.

How long will it be before a cl345 replaces a cl360?
Definitely by the may timetable change maybe earlier
 

JonathanH

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More testing is planned this weekend on the western lines, from the TfL Weekend Travel Information:

Any one taking bets on blockages at Airport Junction?
I think its royal Oak portal testing not Heathrow.
Simply line 5 and what is left of line 6 under possession on the approaches to Paddington - everything on the slow side needs to use line 3 and 4 and pass through the ladder from signal SN32 / to signal SN43. No closure at Airport Junction.

See - https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/d3_1#T_PADTON
 

Trailfinder

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No different from previous Sundays.

The only services not operating are the Paddington to Hayes and Harlington shuttles, all other services are operating as normal.
 

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