Class 345 progress

[samuelmorris]

The units themselves aside for a moment, I'm not all that impressed with the 18:07 diagram at present - it's always held up behind a Gidea Park terminator in front and there's a long wait between Brentwood and Shenfield due to it using platform 4 instead of the TfL platforms (despite being scheduled to use 5?) - will probably make tonight my last 'novelty run' and only use the 345s when it's necessary to travel to Brentwood instead of Shenfield and they happen to be on the diagram from this point on. Despite the seating reservations, I was plenty comfortable enough in a transverse seat doing the full stretch from Liverpool Street tonight and it was warm enough to make full use of the A/C which, for the first time, was probably a bit too fierce, it got quite chilly by the time I got off. Still quite content with the trains themselves but I'm not sure what this diagram says about the timekeeping for when the full service is introduced.
Re: the rough ride, I think I know what people are alluding to, they can feel a bit firm compared to the 315s when crossing the rougher sets of points but I prefer this to actually hitting the bumpstops like on 315s, which is really quite unpleasant!
On the longer stretches Liverpool Street to Stratford and Stratford to Ilford they really feel quite comfortable with the good sound insulation when you're not being acoustically assaulted by the door sounders :P I think it bodes pretty well for the Anglia units which should be quiet, comfortable trains. The impact of passing fast trains is minimal and I decided to risk sitting underneath the pantograph tonight and even the VCB noise isn't bad. Noisier than a BR EMU but quieter I think than a Desiro and certainly far quieter than an Electrostar. I didn't actually notice it the first couple of times over the noise of the passengers.

I also notice the drivers are still currently being very cautious with them, which is understandable given the minimal in-service coverage they've had so far. One thing I was quite impressed with on TfL with the 315s was how 'optimised' the driving style felt. Accelerate as far as is reasonable and then almost immediately brake for the next station, hard enough to stop within a fairly short distance - it felt like even if you optimised the driving to the second with ATO you wouldn't save many seconds per stop at all. The 345s admittedly accelerate a lot faster than the 315s (the departure from Stratford fully laden is amazing) but the approach to stations is taken very gingerly by comparison.


Does anyone know which are the powered bogies on these units? I'm assuming the same as for the Electrostars, i.e. the 'inner' of each powered vehicle, but it's difficult to tell when they're so quiet!

 

[Kite159]

Thursday last week appears to have been the first day. The working is out and back from Ilford:

3C19 07+00 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Gidea Park Middle Siding 07+15
5C19 07+26 Gidea Park Middle Siding to Gidea Park 07+28
2C19 0729 Gidea Park to London Liverpool Street 0800
2C14 0807 London Liverpool Street to Gidea Park 0835
5C14 08+37 Gidea Park to Gidea Park Middle Siding 08+39
5C37 08+46 Gidea Park Middle Siding to Gidea Park 08+47
2C37 0849 Gidea Park to London Liverpool Street 0921
2W46 0930 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield 1013
2W63 1024 Shenfield to London Liverpool Street 1107
2W68 1120 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield 1203
2W85 1214 Shenfield to London Liverpool Street 1257
2W90 1310 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield 1353
2W07 1404 Shenfield to London Liverpool Street 1447
2W12 1500 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield 1543
2W29 1554 Shenfield to London Liverpool Street 1637
2C56 1650 London Liverpool Street to Gidea Park 1720
5C56 17+20 Gidea Park to Gidea Park Middle Siding 17+22
5C57 17+29 Gidea Park Middle Siding to Gidea Park 17+31
2C57 1732 Gidea Park to London Liverpool Street 1800
2W52 1807 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield 1847
2W65 1854 Shenfield to London Liverpool Street 1937
2W78 1952 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield 2035
2W87 2044 Shenfield to London Liverpool Street 2127
2W00 2140 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield 2223
5V81 22+34 Shenfield to Ilford E.M.U.D. 23+04

Doesn't seem to be on this diagram tonight (21:40 is a pair of 315s)

I will probably end up being the last person to sample a 345!

 

[samuelmorris]

It was on the 18:07, I had it earlier. Looking at RTT it looks like being 10 mins late they sent a pair of 315s out of the sidings at Shenfield to catch the time up.

 

[LA50041]

Doesn't seem to be on this diagram tonight (21:40 is a pair of 315s)

I will probably end up being the last person to sample a 345!

345010 was definitely on the 1732 from Gidea park as was my first 345, must've been swapped out after

 

[Bletchleyite]

The transverse seats are rather good. I like the announcements and other than the bins issue I love these trains after only 1 trip on them. They show up the 700s for the rubbish they really are.

I dunno, I really like the 700, it's just the seating (width and pitch) that lets it down. It would be better with, like the 345 or S-stock, some longitudinal and some reasonably spacious facing seating.

 

[Kite159]

It was on the 18:07, I had it earlier. Looking at RTT it looks like being 10 mins late they sent a pair of 315s out of the sidings at Shenfield to catch the time up.

Ta, it probably ended up on a service which ended the night early. Maybe next Thursday i will attempt to hunt the unit down

 

[306024]

It was on the 18:07, I had it earlier. Looking at RTT it looks like being 10 mins late they sent a pair of 315s out of the sidings at Shenfield to catch the time up.

It is only planned to operate up to 18.47 this week. That's why it arrives in platform 4 at Shenfield so it can swap over with a 315 from the sidings which arrives in platform 5 to take its place.

 

[samuelmorris]

Ah, that explains it then - so we still aren't really up to a full diagram. I haven't seen much activity recently in the form of deliveries, and yesterday's trip proved the software update still hasn't been done - for the first time the PIS audio actually stopped altogether mid-sentence and started again from the beginning! Things certainly seem to be moving at a slow pace for having a third of the 315 diagrams displaced by the end of the year. Taking one of the units out of service by schedule after the evening peak and not during it suggests a lack of trained drivers perhaps?

 

[Intellectual98]

Taking one of the units out of service by schedule after the evening peak and not during it suggests a lack of trained drivers perhaps?

Or that they are not allowed to be used in service in the dark yet...

 

[iphone76]

Or that they are not allowed to be used in service in the dark yet...

Bingo. You'll also currently notice two drivers on every working if you look closely.

 

[iphone76]

You may start seeing them running later in service very soon and with only one driver during the day.

 

[swt_passenger]

Bingo. You'll also currently notice two drivers on every working if you look closely.

Are there still some station lighting levels that need to be improved for the DOO CCTV, or was that all done in plenty of time?

 

[iphone76]

Are there still some station lighting levels that need to be improved for the DOO CCTV, or was that all done in plenty of time?

I think it was the DOO camera system generally. It was also not possible to stop on the main line platforms in passenger service at all. This restrixtion has now been lifted during the day, but remains in place for darkness hours.

 

[Hadders]

I dunno, I really like the 700, it's just the seating (width and pitch) that lets it down. It would be better with, like the 345 or S-stock, some longitudinal and some reasonably spacious facing seating.

Longitudinal seating is fine for a quick trip through the core but hardly suitable for journeys like:

Peterborough-London
London-Brighton
Stevenage-Gatwick etc.

 

[samuelmorris]

Bingo. You'll also currently notice two drivers on every working if you look closely.

I noticed the two drivers, but again assumed that was a familiarity issue, it didn't occur to me there'd be DOO issues with darkness, I assumed all the stations were sufficiently lit already. Will keep an eye on this thread for when that happens then. If they leave it much longer they'll be pulling it from the 1807 as well, the nights are drawing in! :P

I saw this on District Dave forum, unsure of its accuracy

They are now operating in the dark. Lighting issues have been resolved.

 

[Via Bank]

Well, the diagram listed within this thread was being operated by 2x315 by 2100 tonight. But that doesn’t necessarily mean the restriction on running in the dark has or hasn’t been lifted.

 

[iphone76]

I noticed the two drivers, but again assumed that was a familiarity issue, it didn't occur to me there'd be DOO issues with darkness, I assumed all the stations were sufficiently lit already. Will keep an eye on this thread for when that happens then. If they leave it much longer they'll be pulling it from the 1807 as well, the nights are drawing in! :P

I saw this on District Dave forum, unsure of its accuracy

The restriction has been lifted as of Monday, but they’ll still be two drivers in the dark for now. And no stopping at mainline platforms during dark hours.

 

[iphone76]

Well, the diagram listed within this thread was being operated by 2x315 by 2100 tonight. But that doesn’t necessarily mean the restriction on running in the dark has or hasn’t been lifted.

It has been lifted. Will see if that changes next week.

 

[samuelmorris]

Looks like 2W65 is a 345 tonight

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I had my first ride on 345 this afternoon, and I find the train very well designed and very satisfactory except in one respect:

Have they carved the seats out of a solid block of granite?

 

[samuelmorris]

345 spotted on 2W30 0810 LST-SNF this morning.

Peter - would you say they're worse than on 387s or 700s?
I wonder if them being longitudinal makes any difference...

 

[physics34]

Have they carved the seats out of a solid block of granite?

when will this stop? When will a passenger group or something try to get train seats that wont kill your back or give you "numb bum".

 

[cybergreg]

Stevenage-Gatwick etc.

Speaking of which: do we know the date when this will be possible?

 

[ginger]

when will this stop? When will a passenger group or something try to get train seats that wont kill your back or give you "numb bum".

AGA received such negative feedback during the consultation for the 720s they quickly changed the seating from the dreaded FAINSA ironing board to a more comfortable model - having tried them myself in the recent mock up visit they were fine for what the train is designed for. The point is AGA have actually listened to passenger groups and Rail Users on this occasion....a positive!

 

[swt_passenger]

Speaking of which: do we know the date when this will be possible?

May 2018 is when some of the through services from the GN to the Thameslink core routes start, Dec 2018 fro all 8 tph. That could be up to 4 tph from Stevenage in May. But it shouldn't really be discussed here...

 

[Townsend Hook]

Currently on 345010, meant to be on 5Z07 driver training run from Gidea Park to Liverpool Street but has been pressed into service as 2Z07 thanks to 345005 on 2W07 1404 Shenfield - Liverpool Street being delayed at Harold Wood.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[physics34]

AGA received such negative feedback during the consultation for the 720s they quickly changed the seating from the dreaded FAINSA ironing board to a more comfortable model - having tried them myself in the recent mock up visit they were fine for what the train is designed for. The point is AGA have actually listened to passenger groups and Rail Users on this occasion....a positive!

Thats good news at least

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Peter - would you say they're worse than on 387s or 700s?
I wonder if them being longitudinal makes any difference...

If I were to place those in order of choice for travelling on, there's three different ways of looking at it:

1) On the basis of general design. My order would be:

345
700
387

2) On the basis of the seat comfort:

700
387
345

3) On the basis of seat layout:

387
700
345

The only reason I am placing the 345 above the 700 in the first category is the 345 has a more comfortable level of lighting. If the 700s had the lighting level of the 345, I would place the 700 top for general design.


Now, looking at the 345, don't you think they look even more Darth Vader-ish than the 460s ever did? Could we get away with re-using the Darth Vader nickname for the 345s...?:

 

[samuelmorris]

Currently on 345010, meant to be on 5Z07 driver training run from Gidea Park to Liverpool Street but has been pressed into service as 2Z07 thanks to 345005 on 2W07 1404 Shenfield - Liverpool Street being delayed at Harold Wood.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

345010 was on 2W52 tonight, so presumably it took over for the rest of the day.

Re: The 720s, I'm actually fairly optimistic - although you will still have the longitudinal seating, general overcrowding and interior layout of a metro unit diminishing the experience, there's still some degree of cosy quiet vibe on the 345s between the stations - with a longer-distance interior, slightly softer seats, less audio spam from the PIS and doors being opened, I think they look to be really quite comfortable trains, here's hoping.

With regard to the 700s, very interesting - I can't rate the 700s high for seat comfort because of the issues with leg space beside the ducting and the seat pitch being slightly too small for me, I'm really only comfortable either in first class or sitting in a bay seat with nobody opposite me. On a 387 the seats may be very firm but I'm relatively comfortable pretty much anywhere I sit. 345s perhaps less comfortable but no worse than a 700, given the armrests and fair legroom facing the person opposite I'd actually suggest better if you get a transverse seat.

Conversely, I actually don't mind the 700 lighting either. It's clinical and cold white but it's not actually all that bright which makes it perfectly acceptable to me. Were it as bright as, say, the 09TS on the Victoria line, then it would definitely be an issue. The lighting is also a bit on the bright side on the S stock but being warm white with a yellowed interior it's perfectly tolerable. Despite people's criticisms I found being in a bay seat for the fast run back to Croydon from Haywards Heath really quite relaxing, aside from the occasional rough bits of track. I haven't really quite had that experience on a 345 yet, probably due to all the noise. Calm those door sounders down and I probably will do soon enough

I disagree re: the Darth Vader comment (though being black doesn't help I admit) but they do have a pretty ugly front end IMO. A shame as the actual profile with the curved front looks pretty good I think. I just wish the section below the windscreen didn't look like there was a panel missing, it's just messy.

 

[samuelmorris]

2W37 (0812 SNF-LST) was advertised as being formed of 7 coaches on the platform display this morning but 315s showed up - does anyone know if this service is imminently transferring to 345 or is it an error with the display?