Class 345 progress

[matt_world2004]

It's only timed for 21 minutes WTT, so I don't think it is that surprising if given a clear run, especially at that time of the night. I think I had a sub-18-minute (or just a few seconds over) run not that long ago on one of the last journeys of the day. I found that they normally hang around stations for a bit off-peak without many people getting on and off, which must suggest that the timing is fairly comfortable

The timings are based on the gwr 387 service that used to run from platform 5 (which also had padding for when they were swapped out with 165s) this is apparently a provisional measure until all 4tph are going heathrow and are both 345s. When the route will be retimed

They have now painted a yellow do not cross line the full length of platform 5 At Hayes. previously it only extended until just beyond the stop point of the 7 car class 345 . there is more engineering works this weekend at platform 5 hayes so maybe they are finishing the platform off for 9 car operation. I personally believe it would be better to remove the barrier on the far end of platform 4 /5 as it will give people more standing space( the barrier was originally erected when platform 5 was longer than platform 4.

 

[Ethano92]

In the absence of luggage racks, you know what I'd like on the 345s? Just the odd coat hanger here and there. A small request but on a 50 minute journey it would be nice to be able to hang up your suit jacket or coat.

The 345s are honestly just air conditioned boxes that rattle quite a bit over junctions, not much more. Little has actually been done for a nice, "luxurious" fit out with the excuse being "most journeys will only be 15 minutes in the core".

In my opinion, although they look good they feel bare and empty. Especially comparing them to 387s which have toilets, luggage racks, coat hooks, tables and reading lamps. Although I use almost none of those when travelling on them, it's nice that they're there as they provide a nicer travelling environment that doesn't feel like an oversized tube train. That was a bit harsh though, they are nice and I don't mind them.

I agree that there's a lot of allowance in the timetable out west, both 345s and 387s seem to wait quite while at each station then speed down to the next one. I haven't noticed that on the 360s but I guess it's just circumstance since they are also very modern trains.

 

[TwistedMentat]

The 345s are honestly just air conditioned boxes that rattle quite a bit over junctions, not much more. Little has actually been done for a nice, "luxurious" fit out with the excuse being "most journeys will only be 15 minutes in the core".

In my opinion, although they look good they feel bare and empty. Especially comparing them to 387s which have toilets, luggage racks, coat hooks, tables and reading lamps. Although I use almost none of those when travelling on them, it's nice that they're there as they provide a nicer travelling environment that doesn't feel like an oversized tube train. That was a bit harsh though, they are nice and I don't mind them.

I agree that there's a lot of allowance in the timetable out west, both 345s and 387s seem to wait quite while at each station then speed down to the next one. I haven't noticed that on the 360s but I guess it's just circumstance since they are also very modern trains.

Probably more the jump in acceleration from DMUs to EMUs. When they get around to putting in the new timetable I expect they will take advantage of the new performance.

 

[childwallblues]

345048 was noted at LNWR Crewe last night.

 

[JW16]

Sitting on one right now, I can see at least two locations on the 345 where a coat hanger would work, and if you don't keep your wits about you on public transport then you're always at risk of being pickpocketed.

 

[Non Multi]

Sitting on one right now, I can see at least two locations on the 345 where a coat hanger would work, and if you don't keep your wits about you on public transport then you're always at risk of being pickpocketed.

Just improvise and take a coat hanger with you (one with a rotatable hook). The 2 grab rails attached to the ceiling would probably suffice. Sticking it between 2 strap hangers should prevent it wandering about. Ultimately 345s have a subway train spec interior (boo!), not a regional or intercity one.

 

[matthewmacleod]

they provide a nicer travelling environment that doesn't feel like an oversized tube train.

But they very much are oversized tube trains and are intended to be so. "toilets, luggage racks, coat hooks, tables and reading lamps" are almost totally redundant for the sort of uses they will see.

 

[cactustwirly]

But they very much are oversized tube trains and are intended to be so. "toilets, luggage racks, coat hooks, tables and reading lamps" are almost totally redundant for the sort of uses they will see.

But they aren't tube trains, and crossrail isn't a tube line!

 

[matthewmacleod]

But they aren't tube trains, and crossrail isn't a tube line!

No, but as a hybrid suburban rail / rapid transit line, I'd definitely consider it more "tube-like" than "train-like".

I imagine passengers on the Shenfield and Reading branches see it as a replacement for existing suburban services, which at least on the eastern branch are pretty "tube-like" already. And central London passengers will definitely be using it much like a tube service.

 

[coppercapped]

But they aren't tube trains, and crossrail isn't a tube line!

Well, yes, officially TfL and the Rolling Stock Library (or whatever it's called now) do not classify it as a Tube line...

...but in practice it will be the Central line on steroids.

 

[cactustwirly]

Well, yes, officially TfL and the Rolling Stock Library (or whatever it's called now) do not classify it as a Tube line...

...but in practice it will be the Central line on steroids.

It's an 'S-bahn' line...

 

[cactustwirly]

No, but as a hybrid suburban rail / rapid transit line, I'd definitely consider it more "tube-like" than "train-like".

I imagine passengers on the Shenfield and Reading branches see it as a replacement for existing suburban services, which at least on the eastern branch are pretty "tube-like" already. And central London passengers will definitely be using it much like a tube service.

The western ones are very much not a 'tube line' especially with the current fares...
I hope TfL will be offering tube style fares as well...

 

[matt_world2004]

London underground tickets are not valid on crossrail except between Stratford and paddington.

 

[jon0844]

The PIS system is linked to the head code and the long term timetable, so it doesn't deal very well with short term changes such as terminating at Stratford or skipping Goodmayes. We can use a manual code for an all stations service to terminate at any station on the line, however, this wouldn't work for missing stops. (We do have the option to skip a station on the PIS, however, this is done manually when the train doors are released at the station before the station being skipped).

The 315 PIS system could deal with this better, as each stopping pattern has a bespoke code which is just input on set-up.

How hard would it be for the PIS system to work with a touchscreen to toggle station stops, which a driver could do quickly and easily once given the order not to stop, or to stop additionally, as required. If it adds a few seconds before the train can depart, so be it. If you're suddenly removing a stop, you'd likely need to do a manual PA announcement to inform people anyway. In reality, you could let the PIS do that while you were updating your diagram SAVING time.

 

[hassaanhc]

No, but as a hybrid suburban rail / rapid transit line, I'd definitely consider it more "tube-like" than "train-like".

I imagine passengers on the Shenfield and Reading branches see it as a replacement for existing suburban services, which at least on the eastern branch are pretty "tube-like" already. And central London passengers will definitely be using it much like a tube service.

Well, yes, officially TfL and the Rolling Stock Library (or whatever it's called now) do not classify it as a Tube line...

...but in practice it will be the Central line on steroids.

Indeed I consider it similar to the Metropolitan line: Heavy local usage and high frequencies in Z1-6, but also extending some way beyond the London boundary at a slightly lower frequency. And the interior layout is definitely needed to cope with the usage in London for much of the day, and especially in the peaks. And in the west, no more 4-car trains (which wouldn't have been an issue if they were actually diagrammed at quieter times, instead of the first off peak services or the surprisingly busy services after 2100).

 

[PeterC]

No, but as a hybrid suburban rail / rapid transit line, I'd definitely consider it more "tube-like" than "train-like".

I imagine passengers on the Shenfield and Reading branches see it as a replacement for existing suburban services, which at least on the eastern branch are pretty "tube-like" already. And central London passengers will definitely be using it much like a tube service.

Not quite to the same standard as the old class 306 but not bad.

Extending what is essentially metro service west of Maidenhead is probably going to turn out as a bit of an own goal though. Having said that I do recall a lot of noise being made demanding a service to Reading. As the old saying goes "be careful what you wish for......."

 

[TwistedMentat]

How hard would it be for the PIS system to work with a touchscreen to toggle station stops, which a driver could do quickly and easily once given the order not to stop, or to stop additionally, as required. If it adds a few seconds before the train can depart, so be it. If you're suddenly removing a stop, you'd likely need to do a manual PA announcement to inform people anyway. In reality, you could let the PIS do that while you were updating your diagram SAVING time.

As a software developer that's roughly how I would have implemented it. Populate from the headcode and long term timetable but use the touchscreen to allow the driver to tweak the stations if needed. And for a custom headcode have the driver fill in the stations. Best of both worlds.

For whatever reason this was not implemented.

 

[Non Multi]

It's an 'S-bahn' line...

Interesting to compare with the Copenhagen S-Bahn S-Tog units; whole interior sections with transverse seating, overhead luggage racks, otherwise similar to the 345s. The graffiti problem seems similar to when the Underground was covered in 'TOX' tags 10 years ago.

Empty:

Full:

 

[jeremyjh]

I can see at least two locations on the 345 where a coat hanger would work

To that and several subsequent comments: These trains will be providing a high-intensity metro service. Most journeys will be relatively short. Whether or not it's "tube-like" or "train-like", we've already seen from the Overground that TfL want to take design choices from the Tube and use them elsewhere. In this instance: TfL and the London commuter have a joint interest in stuff not being easily forgotten/left behind on the trains. I suspect that trumps whether someone's coat gets a bit crumpled on TfL's list of things to care about.

 

[jeremyjh]

Interesting to compare with the Copenhagen S-Bahn S-Tog units; whole interior sections with transverse seating, overhead luggage racks, otherwise similar to the 345s. The graffiti problem seems similar to when the Underground was covered in 'TOX' tags 10 years ago.

...

Those trains are really very wide at floor height - room for effectively 3+3 seating and a wide-ish aisle. There are also whole sections set up to convey 20+ bikes and their riders, with fold-down seats and high racks.

 

[samuelmorris]

To that and several subsequent comments: These trains will be providing a high-intensity metro service. Most journeys will be relatively short. Whether or not it's "tube-like" or "train-like", we've already seen from the Overground that TfL want to take design choices from the Tube and use them elsewhere. In this instance: TfL and the London commuter have a joint interest in stuff not being easily forgotten/left behind on the trains. I suspect that trumps whether someone's coat gets a bit crumpled on TfL's list of things to care about.

To be fair if that were true they'd cover the underside of the seats. I've had stuff stolen from me because people sat in longitudinal seats can easily reach under the transverse seat adjacent and take stuff if it isn't firmly between the passenger's legs.

 

[Non Multi]

Those trains are really very wide at floor height - room for effectively 3+3 seating and a wide-ish aisle. There are also whole sections set up to convey 20+ bikes and their riders, with fold-down seats and high racks.

Blimey (someone at the Rail Delivery Group should take note) :

AIUI, no full size bikes will be permitted to be transported through the Crossrail central section.

 

[jeremyjh]

AIUI, no full size bikes will be permitted to be transported through the Crossrail central section.

That makes sense - the main access to central section platforms will be by escalator. This is one of the reasons behind the ban on the deep Tube, alongside obvious size/exit-blocking issues.

To be fair if that were true they'd cover the underside of the seats.

The idea is to make there be nowhere to leave anything unobtrusively. Security of your things has probably lost out to avoiding unattended items and easing cleaning.

 

[delticdave]

Those trains are really very wide at floor height - room for effectively 3+3 seating and a wide-ish aisle. There are also whole sections set up to convey 20+ bikes and their riders, with fold-down seats and high racks.

These are S-Bane Trains, mostly overground but a short section just in tunnel for a few stops north of the Central Station.

The DSB S-Bane network has a very generous loading gauge, + these trains are articulated withvery short, single axle body sections, (similar to a Talgo train) allowing the cars to have a very wide profile.

 

[cactustwirly]

This is the Munich S-bahn and what the 345s should be

 

[AM9]

Not quite to the same standard as the old class 306 but not bad. ...

Much as I would like to go on an AM6 again, it would be with rose tinted specs/earplugs/seat cushions.

... Extending what is essentially metro service west of Maidenhead is probably going to turn out as a bit of an own goal though. Having said that I do recall a lot of noise being made demanding a service to Reading. As the old saying goes "be careful what you wish for......."

It's really more like an RER, i.e. using established suburban/outer suburban infrastructure either side of a newly constructed high intensity underground core.

 

[EssexGonzo]

Well, living in Shenfield I certainly view it as "another Central Line". And Shenfield will soon be on the London Underground i.e. Tube map.

The trains are entirely fit for purpose when compared to other tube stock. I don't think the lack of racks, coat hooks and toilets is much of a bother for the average traveller.

 

[Non Multi]

Much as I would like to go on an AM6 again, it would be with rose tinted specs/earplugs/seat cushions.


It's really more like an RER, i.e. using established suburban/outer suburban infrastructure either side of a newly constructed high intensity underground core.

RER stock has a transverse seating layout within a double deck coach.

 

[matthewmacleod]

This is the Munich S-bahn and what the 345s should be

This is already very similar to the 345s, except there's less transverse seating, and no overhead racks and hooks. Seems like a reasonable decision.

RER stock has a transverse seating layout within a double deck coach.

I think the thing is that the service is very like RER, rather than the rolling stock.

 

[Non Multi]

I think the thing is that the service is very like RER, rather than the rolling stock.

That's my point though. It's inner suburban layout stock running through Paris, not subway trains.